Meaning of the name Winterfell

[Balerion's Whiskers]

I've seen this tossed about in several threads and it is starting to bother me...In my opinion, Winterfell isn't where winter fell. Although winter does come to Winterfell...it is deeper than that.

GRRM isn't that shallow.

A fell is a term used in Scotland (from the old Norse fjall) which meas a high place, hill or moors. Winterfell is built on a hill. (think of the other mystical places built on hills...such as High Heart) Chances are, it is a hollow hill too...like Bloodraven's lair. It literally means Hill of Winter.

We all know that GRRM has used Norse legends and Scottish terminology in his books, so it stands to reason that this is the meaning he wants us to get from the word Winterfell. Doesn't that follow GRRM's writing pattern better than just Winter-fell here?

[Daendrew]

That is where Winter the ice dragon fell. In my signature link you can read my post on it called The IceBrandon.

[Kingmonkey]

I've seen this tossed about in several threads and it is starting to bother me...In my opinion, Winterfell isn't where winter fell. Although winter does come to Winterfell...it is deeper than that.

"Fell" also means terrible, harsh or cruel. A "fell winter" would be an extremely bad winter.

In terms of place names, you are of course correct that must be the immediate derivation of the name -- I don't think there's any question of that. The only question is what was going through GRRMs mind in terms of double meanings. For that I'm pretty sure fell meaning harsh (or dare I say -- stark) is more likely than fell as the past tense of fall.

[A Bastard Snow]

I've seen this tossed about in several threads and it is starting to bother me...In my opinion, Winterfell isn't where winter fell. Although winter does come to Winterfell...it is deeper than that.

GRRM isn't that shallow.

A fell is a term used in Scotland (from the old Norse fjall) which meas a high place, hill or moors. Winterfell is built on a hill. (think of the other mystical places built on hills...such as High Heart) Chances are, it is a hollow hill too...like Bloodraven's lair. It literally means Hill of Winter.

We all know that GRRM has used Norse legends and Scottish terminology in his books, so it stands to reason that this is the meaning he wants us to get from the word Winterfell. Doesn't that follow GRRM's writing pattern better than just Winter-fell here?

Actually that does make sense as we know there is a large cavern under WF

[falcotron]

Doesn't that follow GRRM's writing pattern better than just Winter-fell here?

"Fell" has many meanings and connotations which color the name; I think it fits GRRM's writing pattern even better to pick a name for its connotations and leave it unclear which ones are intended in-universe. Among other things, "fell" is:

• The past tense of "to fall", which itself has two different readings: winter figuratively falls when it arrives; or the forces of Winter fall when they are defeated.

The related transitive verb meaning "to make something fall", usually only used with trees in modern speech, except in jargon for various fields (and, from the sewing jargon, the part of a kilt that's stitched down). When winter falls here, it falls hard enough to fell the trees.

Pelts or human skin. The latter sense is obsolete, unless you're talking about skinning a human and using his pelt (like, say, the current Lord of Winterfell).

A hill or high moor, as in your explanation.

An adjective meaning strong, cruel, or fierce. Except in a few special idioms ("one fell swoop"), and in Scottish dialects (where it has a more positive connotation of sharp or clever), this word was pretty much obsolete until revived by Tolkien to describe all kinds of evil things in Middle Earth. It's been parroted by sub-Tolkien writers ever since, and it's hard to see the word "fell" in a fantasy without picturing the Nazgul.

Out-of-universe, I think he meant to evoke many if not all of these connotations.

In-universe, I don't know which one the ancient Starks had in mind, and I'm not sure it's as important.

(Honestly, I find it hard to believe the language of the ancient Starks is still intelligible to their modern descendants anyway; most of the senses in English, even the "obsolete" ones, are only a few centuries old; 6000+ years ago the closest thing to English was proto-Indo-European, if even that; I doubt you're going to get "fell" out of "spōl", and even if you did, there would be no connotations from linking it to "pelso". But that's a side issue.)

[Steinnis]

Winterfell, winter fell on them like a cold blanket.

Riverrun, water runs like flowing blood.

[Sly Wren]

Actually that does make sense as we know there is a large cavern under WF

Agreed--caverns with crypts holding the old Kings of Winter. With the older levels being lower down--which is weird--and supposedly inaccessible. Why are they so deep?

Lots has been said about the hill being like a Sidhe hill. Power and magic in old caverns and hills. Could very easily see the name Winterfell being tied to some power from those caverns.

[Poppa Chase]

I thought it meant Cruel Winter

[Lord Hanna]

When it comes to castle names, GRRM is actually that shallow. Dragonstone because it looks like a dragon in stone, Storms End because the storm ends at the walls, Casterly Rock, literally Casterly's rock, etc.

[Sly Wren]

When it comes to castle names, GRRM is actually that shallow. Dragonstone because it looks like a dragon in stone, Storms End because the storm ends at the walls, Casterly Rock, literally Casterly's rock, etc.

Maybe--but I don't think so in the case of Winterfell.

Or he is being shallow--just not in the way we'd think because we no longer use "fell" in that sense.

Narration spends a fair amount of time in multiple contexts in those crypts--dreams, hiding, visions, paying respects. The crypts are in the caverns in the hill/fell. And, as I said--why so deep? A cavern filled hill with a godswood--a weirwood whose roots reach down into that cavern in that hill.

Bottom line: I think the OP is right. The hill in Winterfell is central to a number of events. The Starks keep those caverns separate and somewhat sacred for their dead. That hill matters, one way or another.

[A Bastard Snow]

When it comes to castle names, GRRM is actually that shallow. Dragonstone because it looks like a dragon in stone, Storms End because the storm ends at the walls, Casterly Rock, literally Casterly's rock, etc.

Dragonstone because the island had dragons...

Storms End because of the tale about the storm god

None of them are just randomly named.

Unless you're going to say the Dreadfort was named because they made delicious scones and pastries there.

[Lord Hanna]

Dragonstone because the island had dragons...

Storms End because of the tale about the storm god

None of them are just randomly named.

Unless you're going to say the Dreadfort was named because they made delicious scones and pastries there.

Never said they are random. Dreadfort, because it's a place of Dread. pretty simple. :P

[Ozymandias13]

I wonder have always wondered what Winterfell was called in the Old Tongue? Obviously, it was not called Winterfell. But, maybe the word fell is a word from the Old Tongue and that was the word that stuck?? Just some random thoughts.

[falcotron]

I wonder have always wondered what Winterfell was called in the Old Tongue? Obviously, it was not called Winterfell. But, maybe the word fell is a word from the Old Tongue and that was the word that stuck?? Just some random thoughts.

Given the few samples of the Old Tongue we have, the most likely name for Winterfell is something like Wintrfael.

Even though it's supposed to be a language unrelated to Common, nearly every example he gives us is either Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-Saxon spelled a bit funny, Old Norse spelled like classical Norwegian, or faux Old Norse from the 19th century.

So, don't expect to get too much new meaning out of Old Tongue names beyond the connotations you already get from their sounds. (Although I am curious whether Tormund and Toregg are supposed to be two-mouths and two-eggs, or mouth-washer and egg-washer.)

[Balerion's Whiskers]

"Fell" also means terrible, harsh or cruel. A "fell winter" would be an extremely bad winter.

In terms of place names, you are of course correct that must be the immediate derivation of the name -- I don't think there's any question of that. The only question is what was going through GRRMs mind in terms of double meanings. For that I'm pretty sure fell meaning harsh (or dare I say -- stark) is more likely than fell as the past tense of fall.

Actually, I like this one too. ^^^^

And really, none of us have any idea for sure what was going through GRRM's mind when he created this world. I think he put more effort into the Winterfell universe than say, Sunspear. There is something important under Winterfell, The crypts and below the crypts, the old Kings, the weirwood roots undoubtedly grow into this area as well.

I thought this would be an interesting discussion and there are some excellent comments here. I like the shout outs for the Old Tongue too.

[Lord Freypie]

Winterfell is a name chosen to remember the reader that Starks are stupid.

They are all "winter is coming" when their 8000 years old castle name itself says winter already fell. :)

[grufolo]

Interestingly, in the old tongue Winterfell means "don't look for hidden meanings in geographic names"

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Given the Brandon the Builder is credited with both Winterfell and StormsEnd, I think there might be a theme.

Blah blah blah... Ice Dragon

[falcotron]

Actually, I like this one too. ^^^^

And really, none of us have any idea for sure what was going through GRRM's mind when he created this world. I think he put more effort into the Winterfell universe than say, Sunspear.

Also, keep in mind that he's influenced by his own writing, and constantly changing his story. (Otherwise, we would have all finished reading the trilogy long ago...)

Even if Winterfell didn't mean anything when he chose the name (which seems unlikely), he's had that name in his head for decades at this point, and seen the stories that evolved around it. Its connotations are going to be working on him both consciously and subconsciously, so even if it didn't mean anything in AGoT, it could still mean something in WoW.

[Stormland's Fury]

You can also fell timber.

I have no particular theory, just throwing it out there. Although the North does have a lot of timber.