Season 5..Azor Ahai right on schedule?

[Carty011093]

I have to go with Elio and Linda

They posted a Jon Snow video on YouTube after ADWD.

For anyone who has watched this, I think they are pretty spot on with all of it. Give or take some points. They seem to have hit the nail on the head. after ADWD I can totally see Jon fitting, AA, PTWP, last hero.

[Valhalla Morghulis]

(If I knew how to do the spoiler tag I would do it)

Season 1 started in the crypts with talk about Rhaegar taking Lyanna, then Robert asking about Jon Snow's "mother" Wylla, then Ned saying he'd talk to Jon about his mother the next time he saw him, then Benjen saying they would have a talk when he got back from ranger duty. Also Cat made a huge deal about Jon being a bastard. A HUGE deal compared to all the other families full of bastards in Westeros.

Season 5 had Stannis referring to Jon being the child of a tavern wench by saying it wasn't Ned Stark's way to be unfaithful. LF tells Sansa a story of Harrenhal and Rhaegar choosing to crown Lyanna over his own wife. Barristan tells Dany Rhaegar was more lover than fighter. The Wildlings call Jon King Crow. Aemon mentions something about a Targ alone in the world and then Jon enters the room.

It's not the whole story on the show, no, and not in there nearly as much as it is in the books, but the clues for Jon are definitely in there. And the only person who sets up Rhaegar as a bad guy is Robert in 1 and then Sansa in 5. Each time the facial expressions of the person beside them seems to disagree.

Also as a reminder, D&D got the job based on answering the "Who is Jon Snow's mother" question, which leads me to believe that was a book and show sticking point--which also makes me think he isn't done yet.

These are not clues or a set up. These are only viewed as clues by people who have read the books. Most people who are just viewers and who really do like the show can't remember the names of half the characters that appeared in only the first or second season, and with so many cast members who have actually featured over 5 seasons to think that most people will remember Rhaegar or even Lyanna well and who they were is simply asking too much.

Experienced TV producers and writers know this, and know how much info to give and when, this is a real skill and is debated on a lot, but in this case it is far far below the level that is necessary, as you say no mention for 3 whole seasons!, to keep the average viewer in the loop so when the revelation comes it is not seemingly out of the blue or Deus Ex Machina.

[Charlie Of House Bucket]

It's actually Olly. Shh...don't tell anyone.

[~DarkHorse~]

It's actually Olly. Shh...don't tell anyone.

Yep. Jon was just his Nisa Nisa.

[GravyFace]

To be honest, I don't see Dany as Azor Ahai.

During the first Long Night the Targaryens and dragons were not involved. They have no history or connection with the Others and possibly the original Azor Ahai like the Starks (Bran the builder, also Night's King on the show?) and possibly House Dayne through Dawn (original Lightbringer?). Also, the casting for Arthur Dayne in season 6 specifically notes his special sword, not just his skills. Could it show up again at some point?

Dany is a pure Targaryen and her lightbringer would be the dragons. However, the requirement for AA is-

Then look at Jon's dream-

It fits the description perfectly.

Personally, I think Dany is linked to the Targaryen prophecy that originates before the Doom. She is the Prince that was Promised because she has brought dragons back into the world (and she will restore the Targayen name after their downfall) and I think she (and the dragons) will play her part in the Long Night. However, I think House Stark (blood of the first men) through Jon and Bran will play just as important roles as the dragons. Jon is AA reborn, Dany is tptwp and Tyrion or Bran are the third head and together they make up the three headed dragon.

I think the show will love the idea of a warrior up against the White Walkers, rather than just dragons. The show has already been setting Jon up as a warrior, giving him numerous fight scenes. Also, the 'stare off' between the Night's King and Jon was very telling for me. I think it foreshadows them having a rivalry (two leaders on different sides) and an eventual duel between them.

There is no reason that the requirement for AA is an actual magical sword. We all know what George has said about taking prophesies too literally. No one is going to actually have to shove a blade in their lovers heart to make a magical sword.

And as far as blood, Dany has more percentage of Dayne blood than Jon does. Don't forget that Danys generation of Targ blood is made up of 50% Blackwood, 25% Dayne, and 25% Targaryen (of which Martell blood is mixed in). So she has over 75% First Men blood. Her blood is not a reason why she can't fight the Others.

[RoamingRonin]

If Jon is AA will it really be Jon, or will AA simply use Jons body as a host, sort of like a possession?

I have a pet crackpot theory Bran will do this with Jon's body.

Then look at Jon's dream-

It fits the description perfectly.

Yes. It matches Dany's dream in book 3:

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

[intheswamp]

I'm going to find it silly if in the books Dany just shows up at the end, melts the Others, and is declared AA. Dany's spent 5 books, and probably most of the next one, wandering around Essos. She still has to deal with her new Dothraki friends, Meereen, Tyrion, Victarion, Euron, Marwyn, maybe the Tattered Prince and Pentos, Aegon when she finally shows up in Westeros, and who knows what else. She doesn't even seem to know the Others exist. It'll be weird that this great warrior that supposedly defeats the bad guys will only show up at the end of the war.

Maybe Jon will actually be AA and lead most of the fight, but Dany will end up getting all the credit when she shows up at the end. Afterwards, Jon will disappear with the Wildlings north of what remains of the Wall and be only remembered in the history of the Seven Kingdoms as a Lord Commander Snow of the Night's Watch.

[Dayne's Sword]

There is no reason that the requirement for AA is an actual magical sword. We all know what George has said about taking prophesies too literally. No one is going to actually have to shove a blade in their lovers heart to make a magical sword.

And as far as blood, Dany has more percentage of Dayne blood than Jon does. Don't forget that Danys generation of Targ blood is made up of 50% Blackwood, 25% Dayne, and 25% Targaryen (of which Martell blood is mixed in). So she has over 75% First Men blood. Her blood is not a reason why she can't fight the Others.

Hi just a curiosity question. where does Dany's Dayne blood come from? Was it egg V wife? cant remember where she was from. i know both her parents and grandparents were traditional Targ brother and sister.

[JonSnowed]

Let's say Dany arrvies end of the next book, she fights the Whitewalkers three quarters of the way through then is killed shortly before the end by Arya, perhaps that could work.

[Valhalla Morghulis]

Let's say Dany arrvies end of the next book, she fights the Whitewalkers three quarters of the way through then is killed shortly before the end by Arya, perhaps that could work.

Why Arya? She has a kill list and Cersei and Jamie even Tommen must be her top targets, the Lannisters. I think Dany makes it to the end, when you have a 13/15 year old heroine raped right at the beginning, they make it to the end.

[GravyFace]

Hi just a curiosity question. where does Dany's Dayne blood come from? Was it egg V wife? cant remember where she was from. i know both her parents and grandparents were traditional Targ brother and sister.

Egg's mother was a Dayne, making him half Dayne. Egg then married a Blackwood, making their children 50% Blackwood, 25% Dayne, 25% Targ.

So then Egg's children married brother to sister as well as their own children (Aerys and Rhaella) married brother to sister. So Egg's great grandchildren (Rhaegar, Viserys, Dany) have the same blood as Eggs children since there was no new blood introduced in the last two generations.

[ummester]

Dany is a destroyer. Jon will probably be reborn a destroyer. Whoever the third head is - Bran, Stannis, Arya, Tyrion - doesn't really matter, is going to be a destroyer also. The 'dragon' and Azor Ahai are destined to fuck things up in this saga, not be the Westeros' saviors.

[GravyFace]

Dany is a destroyer. Jon will probably be reborn a destroyer. Whoever the third head is - Bran, Stannis, Arya, Tyrion - doesn't really matter, is going to be a destroyer also. The 'dragon' and Azor Ahai are destined to fuck things up in this saga, not be the Westeros' saviors.

Westeros is already pretty destroyed.

[ummester]

Westeros is already pretty destroyed.

Not fully. The slate has to be wiped clean for a new dawn/spring.

[SerJorahsArmy]

This is an interesting theory on Jorah Mormont.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBvOQPD_cD8&feature=youtu.be

[Rinn80]

Dany is and always had been a red herring. The red priestess plot in Essos is essential to impart the AA mythology to the viewer, and the twist will be that AA is Jon in Westeros.

If Jon is AA, what is Dany then ? The villain at the end or will she become unnecessary to story and die somewhere in the story ?

And AA is a male person/prince according to the prophesy right ?

[Visceral Varys]

You are confusing the show and the books. In the books I agree Jon is the more likely hero, but my whole point was that in the show he has not remotely been set up to be. Rhaegar is a prime example of this and has been portrayed as a kidnapper and rapist and the starter of all the wars, so in the show Dany clearly has been set up as the ultimate hero.

As I have said elsewhere the fact that Jon's backstory has not featured more prominently in the shows is very ominous for the return of Jon in them. Maybe GRRM and D and D agreed to kill him off in the show early on and his story will be different in the books.

Actually, this is not my impression and I have not read the books. What has been said about Rhaegar by honorable characters on the show, Ser Barristan and Maester Aaemon, hold far more weight as they knew Rhaegar personally. This rather than the rumored kidnap and rape stories from family members who were loyal to Robert and who would honorably take his side of the story.

My final impression is that Robert had to assume she was kidnapped because to admit Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar would not only break his heart but would be a massive blow to his ego. And of course Ned belived and backed up his friend.

He kept Jon safe for his sisters sake.

No, I think if it came out that Jon is a Rhaegar's son there will be no detriment to his character, generally, and welcomed broadly - but it sure as hell will cause some serious dinner fracas with his family who have only been told the one side. Sansa will not be pleased. The North as sure as many Hells as they can find won't forget that. Will be interesting.

[Rinn80]

Just because Mel gave up on Stannis doesn't mean he's not Azor Ahai - in fact, in light of Mel's track record, I'd say her giving up is a big indicator that Stannis Satannis may be Azor Ahai.

BTW, I think Azor Ahai is meant to be a destroyer, not a hero, anyway. What kind of hero has to stab their wife in the heart to make a sword better?

Dude, who the f*k is Stannis and why should we care about this failure ? Imo, he is just a side character who was meant to die in the story.

Coming to this AA story, Jon IS AA and Mel will resurrect him by sacrificing Shireen. And when Jon wakes up and hears about her dead he will kill Mel and that's when his sword will absorb Mel's red flames and turn into Lightbringer.

In the show we've already seen Shireen being sacrificed, but Mel didn't use the power of this offering yet. And when she returned back to the wall she kind of realized that she was wrong in believing that Stannis was AA. So next season we will most likely see that in another vision she will see Jon as AA when she asks Rhlor to show the face of AA in her flames.

And this is of course also according to the prophecy which says that the dragon will awake (born) from stone, which obviously refers to Shireen (because of her stone face/disease) and to Jon (=Targaryan blood/the dragon). And GRRM has already confirmed in an earlier interview that Jon will eventually learn about his parents later in the story (which also confirms that Jon will be brought back to life).

And coming to Dany, she might be another heroine who will fulfill another prophecy. And this leads us to that the kingdom will be divided/ruled by her & the Starks (Westeros & the North).

[Valhalla Morghulis]

Actually, this is not my impression and I have not read the books. What has been said about Rhaegar by honorable characters on the show, Ser Barristan and Maester Aaemon, hold far more weight as they knew Rhaegar personally. This rather than the rumored kidnap and rape stories from family members who were loyal to Robert and who would honorably take his side of the story.

My final impression is that Robert had to assume she was kidnapped because to admit Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar would not only break his heart but would be a massive blow to his ego. And of course Ned belived and backed up his friend.

He kept Jon safe for his sisters sake.

No, I think if it came out that Jon is a Rhaegar's son there will be no detriment to his character, generally, and welcomed broadly - but it sure as hell will cause some serious dinner fracas with his family who have only been told the one side. Sansa will not be pleased. The North as sure as many Hells as they can find won't forget that. Will be interesting.

What did Aemon say about Rhaegar?

[JonSnowed]

If Jon is AA, what is Dany then ? The villain at the end or will she become unnecessary to story and die somewhere in the story ?

And AA is a male person/prince according to the prophesy right ?

 

I'd say more likely she is the ultimate villan of the piece, she certainly seems to be heading down the mad queen route.