Revisiting the assassination attempt to Bran

[Mithras]

There is no discussion left about who did it. Both in the books and SSM’s, George made it certain that Joffrey did it on his own because he sought the approval of Robert based on his drunken grumbling about mercy-killing a wounded animal and so on.

My question is, does not this look like bad writing to you? Is Joffrey ever characterized so much to make this action look credible?

[Nozlym]

so ur asking if its out of character for joffery to order to kill someone?

[Cas Stark]

It seems like it could be an awkward retcon, like he originally was going to have it be someone else possibly, like LF organizing it to frame the Lannisters. Otherwise, it's hard to say. It would have to be someone stupid or trying to frame the Lannisters to use such a high profile weapon. Joff was definitely stupid.

[Rickon will return]

I was always bothered by how this plotline played out.

That said, it sounds believable and entirely in character for Joff. He's a cruel kid who craves for the approval of his elders. Bran's fall is like a dream come true.

[HexMachina]

I always got the impression Joff admired his father and sought to copy his behaviours. For example, at the Feast, adpfter the Tourney where he is sat next to Sansa. He acts the gallant Prince, until he sees Robert humiliate Cersei and she returns to the castle alone. Joff then sends Sansa off with the Hound, who he knows terrifies her at the time. It's little hpthings like that, which suggest he always wanted to make his father proud of him to me

[Clegane'sPup]

I found it difficult to believe that 12 year old Joffrey was intelligent enough to plan the assassination attempt.

He would have steal Robert’s dagger, get his hands on 90 silver stags, find & hire the assassin. Plus, Joffrey would have to tell the assassin to wait to do the deed until the King’s party had left WF.

Other questions I had were, and still are, did the cats-paw have a partner? Why did the assailant say to Cat not once but twice, “You weren’t s’posed to be here.” AGOT p132 pb, p133 pb.

Even Tyrion questions it, “The why of it still eluded him. Simple cruelty perhaps?” before saying, “The boy knows I know now.” ASOS p810-811 pb

Although I like a mystery, this one was spread out in snippets dribbled out through three books. The description I use for the writing is disheveled.

There is no discussion left about who did it. Both in the books and SSM’s, George made it certain that Joffrey did it on his own because he sought the approval of Robert based on his drunken grumbling about mercy-killing a wounded animal and so on.

My question is, does not this look like bad writing to you? Is Joffrey ever characterized so much to make this action look credible?

[Nights Kings Queen]

I always got the impression Joff admired his father and sought to copy his behaviours. For example, at the Feast, adpfter the Tourney where he is sat next to Sansa. He acts the gallant Prince, until he sees Robert humiliate Cersei and she returns to the castle alone. Joff then sends Sansa off with the Hound, who he knows terrifies her at the time. It's little hpthings like that, which suggest he always wanted to make his father proud of him to me

So he did. Never noticed that before.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

It's not as the resolution of Jon Arryn's death mystery wasn't a big letdown, either. So, the usual.

[Bael's Bastard]

There is no discussion left about who did it. Both in the books and SSM’s, George made it certain that Joffrey did it on his own because he sought the approval of Robert based on his drunken grumbling about mercy-killing a wounded animal and so on.

My question is, does not this look like bad writing to you? Is Joffrey ever characterized so much to make this action look credible?

I accept that Joffrey was responsible, and have no problem accepting that he could or would order something like this. That said, I did always suspect Littlefinger's involvement in some way, even if he did not openly work with Joffrey. It just came across to me as another attempt to instigate the Starks and Lannisters into conflict, as getting Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and accuse the Lannisters was.

[Criston of House Shapper]

It's not as the resolution of Jon Arryn's death mystery wasn't a big letdown, either. So, the usual.

I actually rather liked that one.

[Lord Lannister]

I found it difficult to believe that 12 year old Joffrey was intelligent enough to plan the assassination attempt.

He would have steal Robert’s dagger, get his hands on 90 silver stags, find & hire the assassin. Plus, Joffrey would have to tell the assassin to wait to do the deed until the King’s party had left WF.

Actually the rather hamfisted way the assassination attempt went down, it makes perfect sense for Joffrey to have planned it. Getting his hands on the dagger and the silver isn't hard. Telling the assassin to use the dagger that's traceable back to the royal party is just pure Joffrey not thinking things through. The whole line about Bran's death being a mercy came from Robert I think. Joffrey heard it, repeated it and so did the assassin. This wasn't a professional operation by any means. The only clever notion behind it was the fire, to draw away attention, which is entirely possible the assassin came up with on his own.

[ThePromiseThatWasAPrince]

I am on my first reread of Game, and just having read about this, I found that the clues all point to Littlefinger. I still am upset that it was Joffrey who planned it, but because of his idiot tendencies he actually started something much bigger than he intended. You have to look at it from that POV. Without that dagger being used, Littlefinger could not have used it the way he did. Even the most mundane of plot holes kind of served up here.

[GuardstheRealmsofMen]

Actually the rather hamfisted way the assassination attempt went down, it makes perfect sense for Joffrey to have planned it. Getting his hands on the dagger and the silver isn't hard. Telling the assassin to use the dagger that's traceable back to the royal party is just pure Joffrey not thinking things through. The whole line about Bran's death being a mercy came from Robert I think. Joffrey heard it, repeated it and so did the assassin. This wasn't a professional operation by any means. The only clever notion behind it was the fire, to draw away attention, which is entirely possible the assassin came up with on his own.

This. I always imagined that Joff never gave more instructions than handing off the dagger, and saying where Bran was.

The fact that it was such an awful assassination attempt discounted anyone good at assassination for me. Littlefinger wouldn't have sent someone who was just going to wander in with a knife and no backup plan. He would get someone who was supposed to be there anyway. We know that is how he operates, Lysa and Jon Arryn, or Sansa to carrying poison without knowing it. Joff on the other hand, is a prince (and not that intelligent.) He wants something done, he sends someone to do it, from making his fire to killing a child.

Even if we hadn't had it pretty much confirmed by the text, the best evidence for me that Joffrey is responsible is just what a stupid plan it is.

[HexMachina]

Actually the rather hamfisted way the assassination attempt went down, it makes perfect sense for Joffrey to have planned it. Getting his hands on the dagger and the silver isn't hard. Telling the assassin to use the dagger that's traceable back to the royal party is just pure Joffrey not thinking things through. The whole line about Bran's death being a mercy came from Robert I think. Joffrey heard it, repeated it and so did the assassin. This wasn't a professional operation by any means. The only clever notion behind it was the fire, to draw away attention, which is entirely possible the assassin came up with on his own.

Aye. The very point is that the assassination attempt is clumsy. That points to either:

a) Someone experienced in these things deliberately making a botched job of it. (To sow discord etc.)

b) Someone inexperienced who doesn't really know what he is doing.

A would suggest Littlefinger, yes. But Martin went with B, which was Joffrey. I don't see it as bad writing at all tbh

[BaelorTheBold]

I don't mind the idea that it was Joffrey that hatched the idea. I do, however, find his reasoning a little odd. To please his father? I mean how would Robert have found out it was Joffrey that did it unless Joffrey actually went and confessed to his face. If he did that I imagine Robert would beat the crap out of him. That always just seemed a little odd to me. But oh well.

I don't really know how I would feel if it was actually LF behind it. I think that would just literally make him the overall bad guy of the series. That would mean he literally did everything to start the WOTFK.

[Make Shadowbabies Not War]

I always got the impression Joff admired his father and sought to copy his behaviours. For example, at the Feast, adpfter the Tourney where he is sat next to Sansa. He acts the gallant Prince, until he sees Robert humiliate Cersei and she returns to the castle alone. Joff then sends Sansa off with the Hound, who he knows terrifies her at the time. It's little hpthings like that, which suggest he always wanted to make his father proud of him to me

I never noticed that... Do you realise what you've done? You've just done the impossible. You've humanised Joffrey!

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

I think this is within Joffrey's capabilities. Hanging out around busy Winterfell, exploring the town, or meeting the strange people who attached themselves to the King's caravan, it's entirely possible he met some joker who claimed to be a bruiser or a killer. In fact, I rather suspect Joffrey would have had a knack for seeking out such people, being as he was a sadistic creep, even at 12.

Said joker wouldn't have to do much to impress Joffrey, and as mentioned Joffrey wanted to emulate* his father, so...

Hey, there's that guy that had those cool stories about killing people. Psst! Bro, here's a Valyrian steel dagger and ninety stags. Do me a favour, put little Brandon Stark out of his misery. It's a mercy. And don't get caught!

Note: emulate, not please. I doubt he'd be confessing this to his dad anytime soon. Or maybe he would, in which case his dad would keep it a secret anyway. Joffrey's a fucking creep, so who knows how weird he's capable of being?

[Septon Oberyn]

Why would there be discussion on this? There is no mystery. It was Joffrey. It is known.

[Mychel_Redfort]

Actually the rather hamfisted way the assassination attempt went down, it makes perfect sense for Joffrey to have planned it. Getting his hands on the dagger and the silver isn't hard. Telling the assassin to use the dagger that's traceable back to the royal party is just pure Joffrey not thinking things through. The whole line about Bran's death being a mercy came from Robert I think. Joffrey heard it, repeated it and so did the assassin. This wasn't a professional operation by any means. The only clever notion behind it was the fire, to draw away attention, which is entirely possible the assassin came up with on his own.

I agree with that. And I wonder if Tyrion slapping Joffrey because he didn't call on Ned and Catelyn after Bran's fall wasn't a reason too. Joffrey surely must have hated being slapped and having to go, and since he couldn't get back at Tyrion, he could have taken revenge on Bran.

[Daendrew]

Of course there is a mystery. Petry said the blade belonged to him. Petyr wanted to create chaos and bleed the great powers so that he or the powers he supports may ascend.

Petyr could suggest to Joffrey to have the act done, he would be impressed by shiny Valyrian swords. Joffrey never says no to a killing.

The biggest question is who Petyr works for. It is probably not just himself.