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Good Guy Garlan

Rant and Rave: Dorne Postmortem (Book Spoilers )

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(to quote Ran):

"The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if he normal rules of the forum do not apply. Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand -- this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked."

But maybe focus on Dorne and why it failed on the show?

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Dorne... So much so so wrong there. I don't think I liked anything at all, except Siddig but the poor man was given nothing.

ETA: just noticed that this is a Dorne only post-mortem

What about ALL the rest? :(

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For the love of gravity, if the show at this point can be salvaged at all, discontinue or at the very least, reduce the sandsnakes to a bare minimum, while utilizing more Doran (Siddig is a champ).



And hire better writers.


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1. Stupid plot. Everything about it was stupid. Jamie's plan. Ellaria's plan. Bad pussy antidote poison plan. How many times did the characters themselves say 'this was a stupid plan'? come on.



2. Terrible introductions...I know they were going for OMG Badass! with the guy burried in the sand...but it was too much, too campy, too silly. That whole everyone has their own weapon may have been something left to the books and they should have been sword fighters instead of whips and spears oh my. They tried to recreate Pedro Pascal's intro but none of those actresses have that level of presence, especially when they're reduced to warrior chicks and there are 3 of them.



3. Terrible costumes. Fucking terrible. Embarrassing.



4. Mediocre lighting. If you're shooting at the Alcazar, make it count.



5. Too much sand snakes, not enough Siddig.



6. Music? Since I can't remember the Dorne music at all, I'll assume it was weak.



Is there anything left? I didn't even bother to slam the bad acting and bad dialogue. LOL


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Even my Unsullied friends think Dorne was a big waste of time. :lol:



The biggest fail for me was Ellaria killing off Myrcella while Trystane (the only heir) was in Lannister hands. They better explain that because it makes no sense.

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They simply aren't cheesy stereotypes in the books. Martin plays them straight, and instead of campy they seem powerful and mysterious. Like real killers...



Seddig was great, with his 15 seconds of screen time they gave him...


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Dorne and Winterfell flipped a coin to see which was worst in terms of characterization and plot. Of course, Winterfell had the advantage of having established characters such as Fansa and Theon. And since they're played by Sophie and Alfie, it immensely helped the story-arc, as insulting and demeaning as it was.

Dorne had none of that. In fact, everything about Dorne made matters worse. From it's first scene with Faullaria, to Obara's speech, to the poisoned boobs, to the Poison Ivy kiss.

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Everything about it was B movie quality. If that. And there's a reason I'm not watching those.



It is easy to slam Porne -- even most ardent show fans thought it was bad -- but I think it is also indicative of the overall sinking quality of the show (can you imagine something like that in season 1?) and, of course, of the mindset of the showrunners with regard to plotting, characterization, clich├ęs, boobs for the sake of boobs etc.


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The really sad thing I was really looking forward to Dorne and meeting the Sand Snakes. It didn't work out quite the way I hoped.



Let's start with the things wrong:Deciding to try to add it despite them cutting Arianne, Jaime and Bronn going there, Ellaria being a complete opposite of her book counterpart when it comes to revenge, the Sand Snakes, Marcella and Trystane (just boring).


Plus the cringe worthy jail scene, the cringe worthy fight scene, them punching Bronn in the face, Ellaria being down with twincest, then poisoning Marcella when the heir of Dorne is on the same boat.(because nobody would ever think people from Dorne would use poison - particularly associated with the Red Viper)


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God it was awful. Pretty much everything Cas Stark said is correct.



Why they cut out Arianne but left in the Sand Snakes will always be a mystery to me. I mean, they're 2D in the books but they're even worse in the show. Arianne should have been the focus, along with Doran.



And Ellaria being all about revenge was just tiring; too many characters were all about revenge this year, so to have one who we didn't really care about also be about it was a bit much.



It's also a tragic waste of Jaime Lannister; they could have cut much of his Feast stuff and still retained the essence and brilliant moments. I was so looking forward to him and the BF interacting.



It was a toss up of what was worse really: Winterfell or Dorne. Dorne was probably worse, but Winterfell had such good material to draw on that it felt more disappointing.


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The really sad thing I was really looking forward to Dorne and meeting the Sand Snakes. It didn't work out quite the way I hoped.

Let's start with the things wrong:Deciding to try to add it despite them cutting Arianne, Jaime and Bronn going there, Ellaria being a complete opposite of her book counterpart when it comes to revenge, the Sand Snakes, Marcella and Trystane (just boring).

Plus the cringe worthy jail scene, the cringe worthy fight scene, them punching Bronn in the face, Ellaria being down with twincest, then poisoning Marcella when the heir of Dorne is on the same boat.(because nobody would ever think people from Dorne would use poison - particularly associated with the Red Viper)

I actually like Myrcella's reaction. From her point of view, she gets her the uncle she always loved, compared to the mean, fat, old man who was supposed to be her father. I liked it.

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I thought Dorne was awesome because D&D are doing the best they can and they have limited time and resources and Martin told them the ending and other adaptations are way worse and AFFC was boring. Ergo, Dorne was good.


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I actually like Myrcella's reaction. From her point of view, she gets her the uncle she always loved, compared to the mean, fat, old man who was supposed to be her father. I liked it.

She would also get the shame of being born from incest (a taboo that should be even stronger in her society than in ours), so it is very strange that she has no problem with the concept itself, or with the social ostracism that would be a result, or with the fact that her brother would not be regarded as the rightful King if anyone found out. (Even though everyone seems to know anyway.) Realistically, these things should outweigh the fact that her dashing uncle might be a more desirable father than Robert, even if she is not the sharpest knife in the drawer...

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Doran looked melancholic on twitter.



@dodor I love watching my gardens. It's very green. #waterlessgardens


@dodor My son and Myrcella at-least-one-half Lannister what a lovely couple. #trystane #lannfans


@dodor I like watching my gardens nearly as much my son like walking there. #trystane #waterlessgardens


@dodor Still it's a bit boring, if only I had some boardgame with dragons to pass time... #boredom


@dodor More childrens too, watching Myrcella made me dream, if only I had a daughter. #lonely


@dodor Or if there were other cities than Dorne in Dorne, I could at least travel a little... #boredom


@dodor My brother gf visited me, she's nice. #family


@dodor She looked furious. I will forget she threatened the life of my bodyguard. #ellaria #dornishlaw


@dodor She's in mourning. I will forget she wants to kill one of my guests. #ellaria #dornishlaw


@dodor She looked very sad. I will forget she threatened the life of her prince. #ellaria #dornishlaw


@dodor Grey sky here again, what a bad season, rained so much my desert turned to grasslands. #meteo


@dodor I like watching my gardens but feel like something is missing. #waterlessgardens #boredom


@dodor Thanks gods visitors finally, my nieces and the funcle of Myrcella what a good surprise. #feast


@dodor They are improvising some kind of dance for me how nice. #dance


@dodor My nieces looked in a bad mood I will forgive they tried to kill my guest. #dornishlaw


@dodor The funcle of Myrcella really acts as a good father. #lannfans


@dodor I'm so proud of my son, really my blood has the same sense of justice as me. #dornishlaw #trystane #bronn


@dodor What a fire in my blood eyes when he watches Myrcella. #fireandblood


@dodor I can't separate them. I'll ask the future step-funcle of my son to take him. #loveboat


@dodor Ellaria made an effort to be nice this time but wasn't it a bit too much ? #ellaria #loveboat


@dodor retweeted @Pornegirl You want the good woman but you need the bad pussy. #dornishculture


@dodor And now they have left. My gardens will look empty. #lonely


@dodor Perhaps I should invite people, some commoner childs, I don't know. #waterlessgardens


@dodor Please stop unfollowing me one day something will happen. #lonely

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I think it was a major mistake to use Dorne as a platform for a Lannister story. It meant, as Cheb and Julia often eloquently put it (better than I can), we saw a version of Dorne that was like a racist/xenophobic view of Dorne from a perspective derived from the rest of Westeros.



It's difficult to know where to start on TV!Dorne because the whole thing was utterly preposterous.


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Hallelujah! And because of a storm, I'm posting from a phone.

In the Emmy nom first round ballot for writing (self nominated, "for your consideration") D&D have offered up: "Mother's Mercy." And they'll probably get into the finals, since their ONLY writing nom last year was "The Children," and it made it into the finals. It is competing against Michael Hirst's finale for "Vikings," which was really well written, and more than that, made actual sense in terms of the plot.

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Hallelujah! And because of a storm, I'm posting from a phone.

In the Emmy nom first round ballot for writing (self nominated, "for your consideration") D&D have offered up: "Mother's Mercy." And they'll probably get into the finals, since their ONLY writing nom last year was "The Children," and it made it into the finals. It is competing against Michael Hirst's finale for "Vikings," which was really well written, and more than that, made actual sense in terms of the plot.

BAD PUSSY FOR THE WIN

:lol:

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BAD PUSSY FOR THE WIN

Versus Rollo's broken French "bonjour" after the Parisian princess calls him a beast.

Sorry, am reduced to stone tablets and chisels in a blackout.

:lol:

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I agree with those who suggested cutting Ellaria completely in the first place and having Arianne go with Oberyn to KL. Then we have the lead-in to Arianne as the focal point in Dorne season 5.



I would maybe suggest having Quentyn turn up at Meereen so they could have the Doran/Arianne friction at the heart of the Dornish story. We wouldn't need to see his journey there. The reveal could happen about Doran's plan for Quentyn and then he could just turn up in Dany's story.


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