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Why are the bones of the dead so important to Northerners?


The Twinslayer

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Each region has their own customs. King Robert remarked that the North was the size of his six kingdoms.



Have you ever been riding down a highway and asked, what is that terrible smell? Or perhaps forgot to put your trash that contains meat byproducts out? Nasty smelling stuff.



In my opinion, the symbolism is, where you are born so shall you lay/lie. Never could get that lay/lie thing straight. As it relates to the story, again my opinion, the Northmen symbolize old Scottish rites and customs.



Today we have embalming. I've seen people go to extreme lengths to recover their relatives and return them "home".


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Today we have embalming. I've seen people go to extreme lengths to recover their relatives and return them "home".

Today, we (by which I assume you mean Americans?) have practices that derive from post-Renaissance England, while other people have different practices.

In fact, even between America and England, after just a few centuries, things have diverged. Americans expect that when you buy a plot, it's yours until the end of time; digging up graves, even to move them to a new cemetery, is so disgusting that you deserve to have poltergeists steal your baby through the TV if you even think about it. Brits (if they're even buried whole; the vast majority are cremated nowadays) only rent plots (theoretically until dissolution of the body, practically for a fixed number of years), and the idea that once someone is planted in the ground that land can never be used again would sound ridiculously wasteful.

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Today, we (by which I assume you mean Americans?) have practices that derive from post-Renaissance England, while other people have different practices.

In fact, even between America and England, after just a few centuries, things have diverged. Americans expect that when you buy a plot, it's yours until the end of time; digging up graves, even to move them to a new cemetery, is so disgusting that you deserve to have poltergeists steal your baby through the TV if you even think about it. Brits (if they're even buried whole; the vast majority are cremated nowadays) only rent plots (theoretically until dissolution of the body, practically for a fixed number of years), and the idea that once someone is planted in the ground that land can never be used again would sound ridiculously wasteful.

Why are the bones of the dead so important to the northerners? The northerners that live on the fictional land named Westeros. I gave my one cent (inflation ajustment).

In Westeros I would think that it would be difficult to travel about on horseback with corspe hanging over your lap. Therefore I think that the northerners want to put at least the bones of their dead to rest on familar gound. Maybe the northerners don't like the idea that their people could be left for crow food. Maybe they are superstitious. Next question. What about all the people who were killed in the wars. I think the catch phrase is smallfolk. Their bones weren't returned. On and on.

I think I read something about the Silent Sisters tending to the dead. I know I read about theTywin stinking up Sept. Jamie spoke of the smell of his hand hanging around his neck.

If the northerners revere their blood ties the bones are better than nothing.

BTW I think Eddard's bones made it back to WF. When Bran and friends left the crypt the door was broken. When Theon took Dustin and companions to the crypt it was back on the hinges and shut.

I am aware cultures in the diverse population of our world have different burial procedures, practices and spiritual beliefs.

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In Westeros I would think that it would be difficult to travel about on horseback with corspe hanging over your lap.

I suspect most cultures that transport corpses home do so either on a cart, or on foot (you can still see the latter in Chinese movies--two guys each holding a pole with a string between them with a bunch of corpses dangling from it, slowly lugging them across hundreds of miles, sometimes with a priest leading and ringing bells), so that may not normally be a problem.

But I am kind of curious how the Mongols carried someone to the field of his greatest battle to be exposed. That seems like something they'd want to do on a horse, but I don't have any detailed descriptions, and anything I imagine (hanging over the rider's lap, tied upright with someone else leading the horse, etc.) seems like it would look a little undignified...

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falcotron, as to Chinese movies perhaps an old classic you might enjoy:The Seven Samurai, which was made into The Magnificent Seven. As to the Mongols and Genghis, watch the tv show or contact a professor.



Now if you are finished playing with me, would you be so kind as to post an answer to the OP. :spank:


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I think the bones connect to the Weirwood network, and let the spirits of the dead join their ancestors and become Old Gods, and that is why it is so important to worshippers of the Old Gods that their bones are buried.

There is evidence that the First Men initially did not want to be connected to the Weirwood network. The very early tombs of kings are mentioned to be high in mountains, above the tree line. We know that Weirwood trees will not grow above a certain altitude, even if the conditions are favorable there. I think that, when the First Men and the CotF were still enemies, the First Men deliberately buried their kings above the tree line so that their spirits would not be trapped in the weirwood network (a weir is a kind of trap for catching fish) and the Children would not be able to access their secrets. The Weirwood network may have even made it difficult for them to communicate with their ancestors in the traditional ways, until they made an alliance with the CotF and learned to use the network.

I think Lady Dustin has access to magic that lets her speak to the spirits of the bones, and that she is lying about not having Ned's bones already. She is how Jon is going to find out who his mother is, and Lady Dustin is planning on betraying the Boltons because she has talked to Ned and knows what is really up.

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falcotron, as to Chinese movies perhaps an old classic you might enjoy:The Seven Samurai,

Samurai is a great movie, but Akira Kurosawa is Japanese, Toshiro Mifune and all of the other actors are Japanese, it was filmed in Japan, it took place in Japan, it's about a unique era in Japanese history (although with intentional evocation of a period in American history)... there is nothing whatsoever Chinese about it. You might as well say that if you like classic Finnish movies you should watch The 400 Blows.

As to the Mongols and Genghis, watch the tv show or contact a professor.

I didn't mention Genghis Khan at all. But he's especially irrelevant, because he specifically asked for a very unusual funeral: he wanted to be secretly buried in an unmarked grave so that his successors would look to the future instead of looking to him.

Now if you are finished playing with me, would you be so kind as to post an answer to the OP. :spank:

I already posted an answer to the OP: most funerary customs don't actually mean anything, and are just a way to distinguish a culture from its neighbors, to demonize them or to prevent assimilation. Which is a perfectly good explanation for why the last of the First Men would have different traditions from the Andals that surround them.

I think the Stark crypts could definitely be meaningful. But if so, it won't be because the superstitions surrounding burial in the North are all true. It will be something we can figure out by clues related specifically to the Crypts at Winterfell and the stories we hear about them, not by trying to analyze Northern culture (much less by assuming that it's like "the real world", when the real world doesn't have a single culture...).

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I think the Stark crypts could definitely be meaningful. But if so, it won't be because the superstitions surrounding burial in the North are all true. It will be something we can figure out by clues related specifically to the Crypts at Winterfell and the stories we hear about them, not by trying to analyze Northern culture (much less by assuming that it's like "the real world", when the real world doesn't have a single culture...).

Well, maybe yes and no. The Winterfell crypts and what they mean do seem to be specific. Though we only have hints at present as to what exactly they mean. But the culture of burial in the North vs. burning bodies north of the wall--we've got Ned and Robert riding over the Barrowlands, Ned remarking that the land is old and full of graves--apparently a long history of needing to bury the dead.

In other words, the burial at Winterfell fits with the idea of the Barrowlands (maybe--very little info) but the potential warding of bodies in crypts might fit with the history of the Long Night. So, both culture and history in Winterfell, as you say. but still tied to the North per se.

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I mean its pretty clear bones have some level of mystical importance between the crypts, all forms of necromancy, lady's bones, and some comments from Melisandre. Obviously nobody has an answer for it entirely as of now other than it holds some form of both ritualistic and magical importance


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A Song of Ass and Fire which part do you think is a joke? My suggestion that falctron might enjoy the movie or that the orginal movie was remade in 1960?

That you are recommending a very Japanese movie with the reason being that he mentioned old Chinese movies. Those are two VERY different cultures, it would be like me recommending Das Boot to someone who said they are a fan of Greek cinema.

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