How Can Anyone Like Samwell Tarly?

[RoamingRonin]

3. Buuuuttttt, I, I, I, I'm sssscccccarrrred - I just wanted to conclude with a final non-character point, IMO Sam is the most tiring POV character to read in the whole series, as being inside his head means we have to endure every other line be that 'I am a craven', 'I can't', 'I don't want to', 'please no', 'why me?' crybaby bull crap that is an absolute pain to read. There really isn't much I can say as it's a personal preference, but I do hope others feel the same way, that the style in which is chapters are written is a pain, and worse still, even as he advances as a character, this doesn't seem to dissipate but just goes on and on and on.

Oh, God, this. I can't stand it. I wish he drowned in Braavos so we could be free of his cowardice.

[D-A-C]

I get that with him being a huge self-loathing loser who wishes he was someone else rather than bettering himself relates to you, but not all people are like that. If you put in work and effort you will achieve something regardless of how skilled you are at it. Sam is just a lazy, self-loathing person who doesn't try. If he lived in the modern era, I assume he would be one of those stay at home and claim benefits despite being fit to work people.

All comments are welcome and valid ... that being the case, I just want to say I don't really support your conclusions with that point at all and think its way off topic and political.

If Samwell lived in a modern era, his father would have been arrested for heinous chlid abuse. How about questioning why Samwell is self-loathing? Could it be the father that soaked him in blood, abused him, and convinced him he was nothing? If you can't understand why Samwell is mentally damaged, your judgment on anyone is probably shit.

Leaving aside what the other poster said:

My own point is that, as horrible as Randyll Tarly was, it doesn't come out of nowhere, it isn't a case of Sam trying hard and not meeting high standards, he is singularly incapable and pigheaded about that fact. Sam from an early age, reading it from the books, seems like he would be singularly incapable of leading a House. Plus Dickon seems normal, and even good natured if you take into account his stopping that Game against Brienne.

I also emphasise that the harshness increased the more Sam, like the stubborn person he is, resisted all attempts at improvement. He simply didn't try, and never does. He opts out of everything even before he starts.

Sam is Loyal to his friends, respects others, protects the weak (in his own way), everytime his backs truely been against the wall he's come through (all be it clumsily) he's intelligent (yes he was born to privilege, but if you think can help that please remember how much choice you had in your birth). and he's one of the few people with a proper name!

Being 'loyal' to his friends is subjective and I would dispute it considering how petulent he can be about the men he knows and serves with. He often doubts their friendship and says it was all down to Jon making them his friends. I would also make the case that by being so helpless most of the time, he is in and of himself endangering them and he requires extra attention to manage that other characters simply don't receieve. Characters repeatedly tip-toe around Sam in ways they don't for others.

Also, if he is smart and good with books, to go back to the point of his father, why not go down the route of being a strategist like Tyrion, read books of wars, battles, politics etc? He doesn't show any inclination to do anything he himself doesn't want to do.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

What an awesome response you really cut to the heart of my argument, blaming the victim. That's why I wrote that post, I just love a good ol game of blame the victim.

I don’t see how this op deserves any better answer. From what I got the fact that Sam *didn’t tried* to be the son Randyll wanted to be, forgetting the torture that he had to put up with, is classic victim blaming. Not everyone can be the person our parents expecting us to be. Does this mean that they are free to torture and abuse us? Sam had given Randyll a great choice. He would had been a maester and would step down so that his brother would become the King. However Randyll chose to threaten him that if he didn’t do what Rabdyl wanted to do he would had a terrible accident. How is that man excused and a child who simply couldn’t be the man his abusive father wanted him to be is wrong.

For me Sam grew up to be one of the bravest characters. A son that every father would be proud to have if the said father had a functional brain.

[Alysanne Donnelly]

That's surprisingly common around here. Scary, right?

But hey, in a faux-medieval society written by a man in the 90s and 2000s, anything goes.

I just... I don't understand how little empathy people can have :shocked:

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Oh, God, this. I can't stand it. I wish he drowned in Braavos so we could be free of his cowardice.

I love this argument, as if most the people who make it wouldn't piss their pants if confronted by some crackhead with a knife, let alone an army of the undead.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

He doesn't learn with Randyll, yet he does practice his archery when Jon tells him to and starts to improve. So if a student learns from one tutor but not another, is the problem with the student of the tutor he doesn't learn from.

[RoamingRonin]

I love this argument, as if most the people who make it wouldn't piss their pants if confronted by some crackhead with a knife, let alone an army of the undead.

I find him annoying and wished he died a long time ago. That's all.

He doesn't learn with Randyll, yet he does practice his archery when Jon tells him to and starts to improve. So if a student learns from one tutor but not another, is the problem with the student of the tutor he doesn't learn from.

If only he didn't complain about his blisters and the aches and pains of working out all of the time.

[The Mother of The Others]

I grew up eating a lot of butter (Challenge brand, with canola oil and sea salt, the one with the moose or caribou or elk on the front of the butter container).

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Being 'loyal' to his friends is subjective and I would dispute it considering how petulent he can be about the men he knows and serves with. He often doubts their friendship and says it was all down to Jon making them his friends. I would also make the case that by being so helpless most of the time, he is in and of himself endangering them and he requires extra attention to manage that other characters simply don't receieve. Characters repeatedly tip-toe around Sam in ways they don't for others.

Also, if he is smart and good with books, to go back to the point of his father, why not go down the route of being a strategist like Tyrion, read books of wars, battles, politics etc? He doesn't show any inclination to do anything he himself doesn't want to do.

He is not use to having friends, and doesn't know why people would be his friend, but he is loyal he never betrays them or even thinks of betraying them. Yes, he is not cut out for the NW let's face it, it wasn't his choice to join them but he makes himself useful (the show turns him into a bumbling idiot) he gets the ravens off at the fist of the first men, kills an Other (more through luck than judgement) and gains valuable info on how to fight them.

He doesn't go the strategist route because he doesn't understand warfare, how can he plan a battle if he doesn't know the strengths of carvery, of archers, or lances or pikes. You can't.

[The hairy bear]

He had been assisting Aemon for 4 years . He seemed to be managing otherwise why would he have lasted that long?

The fact that Aemon accepted so fast to get rid of him proves that he wasn't very good at his job. In fact, in ASOS's prologue Chett himselves acknowledges that he wanted to keep his job because it was undemanding and it alowed him to be lazy.

If we add to that that he proved to be a betrayer and a murderer, it's no surprise that he was dismissed. Actually, the fact that scum like Chett was given the job in the first place proves how low the Watch had fallen.

Chett not being able to read or write isn't valid in my eyes because A. Sam being able to is because of privilege, which I am objecting to B. Somebody could have taught Chett and thus he would have advanced as a person because he maybe would have been nicer person if someone had been treating him with some dignity for once. Clearly he faced prejudice because of his looks his whole life, we even get that in POV chapters from characters.

We know Aemon is kind and patient. If he didn't waste time teaching Chett how to read, it was probably beacuse he saw what kind of person he was.

In the books there are examples of people with ugly looks (Brienne, Sam,...) who eventually are friended/respected. Chett is an example of someone who thinks people despise him for his bad looks and probably they are even more repulsed by his personality. Remember that he is someone who murdered a girl for not wanting to lay with him.

[Lemonking]

The problem with Sam is, that he is a pretty unrealistic character. If even half the 'torture' he received is true he wouldn't have become that fat or incompetent with weapons.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I grew up eating a lot of butter (Challenge brand, with canola oil and sea salt, the one with the moose or caribou or elk on the front of the butter container).

Is this like the "peanut" trend back in 2013-2014?

[Ahai Ahoy]

There is no victim blaming as Sam isn't a victim, only in his own mind.

This. Sam made no attempt to man up. 100% agree with the OP.

[Astromech]

Surprised nobody mentioned the "fat pink mast" yet.

Sam has certain endearing qualities: loyalty, intelligence, kindness and an inner courage. It must also be stated that Sam is his own worst critic (besides his father who should be reported to CPS) and his whininess can be frustrating at times. He fails to see his own strengths which are visible to readers and those around him.

He may not be my favorite character, but I see how readers can like Sam.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

This. Sam made no attempt to man up. 100% agree with the OP.

:rolleyes: Yes child abuse is the kids fault cause they don't man up :rolleyes:

[Ahai Ahoy]

I don't know where the notion that Sam is intelligent came from. Being able to read =/= intelligent.

[Ahai Ahoy]

[double]

[Red Typer of Dorne]

I don't know where the notion that Sam is intelligent came from. Being able to read =/= intelligent.

Came up with a plan to play Marsh and Pyke to get Jon elected. But I suppose we'll have to wait to see how he does in Oldtown before we are certain.

[~DarkHorse~]

Simply put, he's one of the few wholly good characters and most readers can relate to his thirst for knowledge and books. It always surprises me how people who read fantasy novels and obsess over them enough to post on a forum hate characters like Samwell and Sansa. They're probably more like them than they think.

Also, Randyll Tarly is a piece of shit.

:agree:

The good hearted characters who get abused and 'do nothing about it' always get hate. :bang:

[The Mother of The Others]

Sam is like "working fat" and not just accepting his fat fate anymore. That's nice to see.

Is this like the "peanut" trend

don't know about that, but the canola makes the butter healthier says my personal lobbyist.

also, I check myself for lethal peanut allergies weekly and so far have not suffered a single death. Perfect record of 38-0. I'm approaching Peanut Grandmaster levels, but as for that trend you mentioned I know it not.