BRAN’S GROWING POWERS AFTER his FINAL POV in ADwD

[Tijgy]

I wrote my "little analysis" and then ... the site crashed. And I could start whole over again "sigh" (Okay, I had some earlier draft but I did spend some time editing it   But here it is. I hope you enjoy it and find it interesting

Analysis of Jon IV, ACOK, A divine inspiration?

Introduction

During my reread of ACOK, I came across a Jon's chapter which reminded of my earlier analysis of a possible intervention by the old gods in Tyrion's chapter. This gave me the inspiration to write this little analysis on this chapter of Jon (probably not that little) and to compare it to the situation in Tyrion's chapter. 

The first part of this analysis is an objective collection of possible references to the old gods and bloodraven in this chapter by looking at words, phrases, ... My own personal input consists of choosing the particular quotes (and I tried to this as complete as possible - but nobody is perfect) and an occasional remark. The second part is a more speculative and personal interpretation of this chapter and my personal look on a possible interference by the old gods. I do this mostly by comparing to my own interpretation of Tyrion's chapter (x and x). 

To start, I think I need to give first a little synopsis of the chapter: The Night's Watch arrives at the Fist of the First Men. The officers have a talk about what they are going to do next. And Ghost leads Jon to a collection of dragonglass weapons. 

Some first author notes: 

• I called Mormont's raven Raven. I didn't want to call him the entire time Mormont's raven and I think he deserves a name. So Raven is just the name of Mormont's raven 
• During my text I sometimes underline some words. This only means that in the books the words are cursive, because they are parts of the story that are the thoughs of the POV Character. 
• I must also probably admit my only literature classes goes back to highschool and my thought process is completely brainwashed by 5 years of law school. And that does a lot to a person's thinking . Not that you get stupid by that brainwashing. You just start to think in a specific kind of way. But I did read Homer once and translated even some parts from Old Greek.
• I also refer here just to the "Old Gods". This can of course how you will being interpreted: Bloodraven, seers of the Children, ...)

Collection of possible references to the old gods and Bloodraven

The Night's Watch arrives at the Fist of the First Men. Ghost refused to go to the top and ran off. (Some completely irrelevant side note: Meanwhile Mormont and Raven are fighting like a old couple. Their relationship is really funny. I really think the one time Raven shat on Mormont was because Mormont told Jon Raven already ate and Jon should not give him any corn. The shit was his revenge. And now more serious ...) Jon tries again to bring Ghost inside the ringfort but Ghost runs away again ("he padded forward warily to sniff at the gap in the stones, and then retreated , as if he did not like what he'd smelled). Ghost's reluctance makes also Jon's sense of foreboding grow.

Jon starts to look over the landscape and thinks: “Closer at hand, it was the trees that rules. To south and east the wood went on as far as Jon could see, a vast tangle of root and limb painted in a thousand shades of green, with here and there a patch of red where a weirwood shouldered through the pines and sentinels, or a blush of yellow where some broadleafs had begun to turn. When the wind blew, he could hear the creak and groan of branches older than he was. A thousand leaves fluttered, and for a moment the forest seemed a deep green sea, storm-tossed and heaving, eternal and unknowable.”

Ghost is in the forest (”Ghost was not like to be alone there, he thought. Anything could be moving, under that sea, creeping toward the ringfort through the dark of the wood, concealed beneath those trees. Anything”. (Note: the reference to the sea is kind of peculiar).

While Jon is starting (until sunset) at the forest for awhile, Sam goes to him and they walk together to the ravens who are also restless ("Jon heard the ravens before he saw them. Some were calling his name. The birds were not shy when it came to making noise. They feel it too”). Jon Then Jon goes to serve Mormont and his officers during their meeting about what they are going to do next. During this meeting Raven is present. The officers leave then and afterwards Lord Mormont and Jon are having a talk about Benjen Stark and the raven starts to act very weird. 

“Maester Aemon thinks you clever.” Mormont moved the raven to his shoulder.The bird tilted its head to one side, little eyes a-glitter. (Note: it looks like Raven is understanding what Mormont and Jon are saying (tilted its head) )
 The answer was there. “Is it … it seems to me it might be easier for one man to find two hundred than for two hundred to find one.” 
The raven gave a cackling scream, but the Old Bear smiled through the grey of his beard. “This many men and horses leave a trail even Aemon could follow. On this hill, our fires ought to be visible as far off as the foothills of the Frostfangs. If Ben Stark is alive and free, he will come to us, I have no doubt.”
“Yes,,” said Jon, “but … what if…”
“… he’s dead?” Mormont asked, not unkindly.
Jon nodded, reluctantly.
“Dead,” the raven said. “Dead. Dead.”
“He may come to us anyway,” the Old Bear said. “As Othor did, and Jafer Flowers. I dread that as much as you, Jon, but we must admit the possibility. 
“Dead,” his raven cawed, ruffling its wings. Its voice grew louder and more shrill. “Dead.”

Jon goes to eat with Grenn, Dywen, … And during their meal Dywen says that the wood “smells … well  ... cold.” When Hake says “There’s no smell to cold”, Jon thinks “There is. It smells like death" "remembering the night in the Lord Commander’s chambers". (Note: Something what I thought peculiar is how Dywen is compared to a tree (”His face was leathered and wrinkled, his hands gnarled as old roots”; “Your face is as wooden as your teeth”; He has really wooden teeth). 

When Jon leaves, there is the following description of his surroundings: "the wind was blowing briskly when he left”, a description of the camp, “A sound rose out of the darkness, faint and distant, but unmistakable: the howling of wolves. Their rose and fell, a chilly song, and lonely" (Note: are wind and wolves not a way to indicate the present of the Old Gods?). Jon sees then Ghost (who in the end did enter the ringfort): “across the fire, a pair of red eyes regarded him from the shadows. The light of the flames made them glow.” Jon calls Ghost to him but …

“The direwolf circled the fire, sniffling Jon, sniffling the wind, never still. It did not seem as if he were after meat right now. When the dead came walking, Ghost knew. He woke me, warned me. Alarmed, he got to his feet. “Is something out there? Ghost, do you have a scent?” Dywen said he smelled cold.
The direwolf loped off, stopped, looked back. He wants me to follow.” 

Jon follows Ghost. Meanwhile “He could hear the wind whistling through cracks in the rocks as they neared the ringwall.” Earlier this chapter Jon whistles so Ghost would come to him. He goes down the hill which is very dangerous in the night. (Note: Just like Tyrion telling himself he should not go atop the Wall), Jon asks himself “What am I doing”? He chases Ghost thinking by himself “This is madness.” (Note: Tyrion also thought some strange madness had taking some hold over him). Meanwhile we have a new mentioning of the wind when Jon is calling for Ghost: “but the night wind was swirling amongst the trees and it drank the words” (Note: a mentioning of swirling wind)

He finds then Ghost digging and finds in hole “dozen knives, leaf-shaped spearheads, numerous arrowheads” made of dragonglass, an “old warhorn, made from an auroch’s horn and banded in bronze” within inside some more arrowheads. The weapons were wrapped in “good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotten”, a black cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch. 

Jon remarks twice that it was recently someone placed those weapons there:  “Whatever was here had been put here recently” and “It could not have been long in the ground”.

Interpretation of Chapter

Old Gods in the forest

I think it is heavily implied there is a divine presence in the forest near the Fist. First, it is said “Closer at hand, it was the trees that rules". There is also a wind who making the branches croak and groan, the leaves flutter, ... The forest is also described as "eternal and unknowable", typical adjectives to describe a god.

Ghost is in the forest. 

Old Gods, the Night's Watch and Raven's little ears

In this chapter we have a talk between the officers and a talk between Jon and Lord Mormont during which our Raven is present. So the “old gods” know what is being said between them if we believe the old gods listen through Raven. “They” know what the plans of the officers are. 

When Lord Mormont and Jon are starting to talk about Ben Stark, you have first the tilting of its head which might indicate Raven is listening to what they say (the bird tilted its head to one side, little eyes a-glitter). Raven starts to act really weird then. He starts to say “Dead, dead, dead, …” Does he mean Ben is dead?** Does he mean the Night’s Watch is going to die?* Or does he mean the dead is walking in the forest and coming nearer. Is he warning them of the wights? (”Anything could be moving, under that sea, creeping toward the ringfort through”; “It smells cold”, “ “It smells like death” remembering the night in the Lord Commander’s chambers”). 

* This was one of my thoughts when I was rereading Jon's chapter. However in next Jon's chapter, Raven says: "die, die, die..." when he is talking either about the near death of the fifteen rangers or the Night's Watch at the Fist. So because Raven says here dead and not die, he is probably talking about someone already dead (either Ben or the wights).

** He really starts to say "dead, dead, dead, ..." when it is mentioned Ben might be dead and even before the wights are mentioned. So this probably means Ben is dead ... I refuse to believe this!

The divine inspiration of Tyrion Lannister and Jon Snow

In this chapter Jon is influenced/inspired in the same way by the old gods as Tyrion. The old gods influence both of them to go to a place where they encounter something that might help the Night’s Watch. Tyrion is lead to Jon Snow who is guarding the Wall and is made to look over the land beyond the Wall so that he might start to believe the stories about the Others and so he might influence the King, … into helping the Night’s Watch. Jon is lead to a grave where he finds weapons that the Night’s Watch can use in the fight against the Others.

Both times the person influenced remarks the wind and the howling wolves in the background. In both instances this person notices the swirling wind. Both are being forced into something they call “madness” and wonder why the hell are they doing this. According Tyrion he is lead into that path by the wind who is an insistent lover. Jon follows (angry) his wolf. 

In this chapter there is apparently also connection between the wind and Ghost. Ghost is in the forest where the wind blews and makes the branches groan and the leaves flutter. (“When the wind blew, he could hear the creak and groan of branches older than he was. A thousand leaves fluttered, and for a moment the forest seemed a deep green sea, storm-tossed and heaving,eternal and unknowable”). The wind whistles just like Jon whistles to Ghost (“He could hear the wind whistling through cracks in the rocks as they neared the ringwall”). And strangely Ghost also sniffles the wind (“The direwolf circled the fire, sniffling Jon, sniffling the wind, never still. It did not seem as if he were after meat right now”). So the old gods are maybe using the wind to tell Ghost what he has to do? They might tell: “Ghost, you must irritate Jon and make sure he follows you to this grave (and to his grave because it is actually very dangerous how you are leading him through this dark forest)”. 

The eyes of Ghost and the Raven are described in similar ways during this chapter: the eyes of the raven are a-glitter and the eyes of the wolf are glowing by the flames (“The bird tilted its head to one side, little eyes a-glitter”; “across the fire, a pair of red eyes regarded him from the shadows. The light of the flames made them glow). Is this a way of the writer to say both animals are influenced by the same thing, the old gods?

It is also possible to say Tyrion’s chapter and Jon’s chapter have the same structure. First, there is a talk between the officers of the Night’s Watch where Jon or Tyrion are present, you have then a talk between Jon or Tyrion and Lord Mormont where Raven is present and then Tyrion and Jon are influenced by the old gods through the wind or Ghost (listening to the wind?). 

An answer to the Old Bear's prayers?

In one of my posts I wrote what the old gods might intend by influencing Tyrion to look over at the Land Beyond the Wall: making him believe in the stories so he would influence the King, … . This could be considered as a reaction on what the Old Bear and Tyrion asked about during their conversation: the plea of the Old Bear at Tyrion to make him influence his family into helping the Night’s Watch. 

Is it possible the intention of the old gods to influence Jon is also linked with the topic of Jon’s and the Old Bear’s conversation? Jon and the Old Bear are talking about the whereabouts of Benjen Stark and about the fact he might come to them (If Ben Stark is alive and free, he will come to us, I have no doubt”). Are the Old Gods answering the Old Bear's prayers? Does Ghost lead Jon to a place where Ben Stark might have been once? The weapons are placed there recently by someone who might be in the possession of a Night’s Watch cloak. This someone can have been Benjen Stark. 

Was that maybe why the raven started to scream cackling, when the Old Bear said: “Is it … it seems to me it might be easier for one man to find two hundred than for two hundred to find one.” Ironically, if those weapons were left by Benjen Stark, it would mean the two hundred did found the one man (and this one man already left this place?). The raven might find it sarcastic the two hundred men are actually waiting for nothing. (Or he already knows Ben Stark is dead and screams cackling because of that reason?)

A side topic of the Old Bear’s and Jon’s conversation was the dead walking. You can just say the old gods are leading Jon to a place where someone hid weapons to fight the wights. But the problem here is obsidian can only be used to fight the Others and not the wights. And only the wights are mentioned during the conversation and not the Others?

So this means either the old gods lead Jon to the place where Benjen Stark was earlier (main topic of the conversation), to the place where weapons are found to fight the Others (indirect topic of the conversation). 

Or the divine intervention has nothing to do with those conversations and the Old Gods do not answer the Old Bear's prayers? It is just a coincidence that this happened two times?

Some little remarks/questions (whose relevance to this thread can be questioned)

1. ”Ghost was not like to be alone there, he thought. Anything could be moving, under that sea, creeping toward the ringfort through the dark of the wood, concealed beneath those trees. Anything"

There is here a weird comparison between the forest and the sea. It does remind me of Patchface and dead things under the water (IIRC Cotter Pyke's letter. What would be the meaning of this?

2. I am weirdly fascinated by Dywen and the fact he is compared to a tree (”His face was leathered and wrinkled, his hands gnarled as old roots”; “Your face is as wooden as your teeth”; He has really wooden teeth). Is he just an old experienced forester/NWman or is there something more? Some connection to the Old Gods?  

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎25‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 1:13 AM, Tijgy said:

I wrote my "little analysis" and then ... the site crashed. And I could start whole over again "sigh" (Okay, I had some earlier draft but I did spend some time editing it   But here it is. I hope you enjoy it and find it interesting

Analysis of Jon IV, ACOK, A divine inspiration?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Tijgy!  That was awesome, good work!  There is so much to find, I have posted AGOT stuff and you're posting ACOK stuff.  I've just re-read the first Bran chapter in ADWD so I can follow Evita's suggested order and there is loads of stuff in there as well!  [I too had problems with the site this week, oh well]

On to your analysis and some of the stuff I particularly liked. 

Firstly, I love your take on the scene where the 'branches are croaking and groaning while the leaves flutter [rustle] and the trees become a sea, eternal and unknowable'  I really like what you found in general as it fits what we're all looking for, but you're muse that the 'eternal and unknowable' suggests a Gods presence is very clever and I totally agree.  

Of course you've also mentioned the wind and it's familiar traits.  The whistling [I like the fact Jon whistled to Ghost earlier] the swirling and the fact it drank the words.  Also the later notion of the wind and wolves howling mentioned closely together in the text.  All things we are finding regularly.  Again, nice work.

Your analysis of Jon and Tyrion's experiences in the text is interesting as well.  They are similar as you note and of course this is another example of such [Homeric] goings on in the text.  I think we're touching on stuff [wind mainly] that hasn't been looked at/posted about within the entire Asoiaf fandom.  A Google search finds nothing but us.  Bravo Evita!

I like your take that Raven [] and Ghosts eyes were glowing/glittering.  That happens again in the text as well [more in Bran I ADWD]  And that maybe the tilt of the head showed a willingness to listen.  Welcome aboard Tijgy, these are all things that we should absolutely be posting about, great work.

Finally, I too have seen a structure to various chapters, I think GRRM is dotting these techniques around these various chapters, with slightly different takes on the Old Gods. [The wind being personified-the more subtle rustle of leaves to personify the woods/trees-weirwood jewellery-One eyed creatures-mist-Ravens-Crows etc..]  And I love your thoughts on Dywen, it seems this man is, as you suggest, the embodiment of a tree.  Very interesting with all we've looked at.  And this man talks a lot of sense, and is respected by Jon and the Nights Watch alike.  Nice catch, Dywen had passed me by in all honesty. Thanks. 

Good job Tijgy!  If I start to post from Bran's ADWD chapters, and you're still re-reading ACOK and finding cool stuff, still post it if you think it links to what we're looking for.  It all helps to understand this line of enquiry, and pinpoints where these descriptive chapters are for future reference.  You could be our ACOK correspondent [Meanwhile in ACOK......]  Plus you're looking at the same stuff as Evita, LongRider and I, we should team up and see what comes from our speculative musings.  Again these are the first steps into such enquiry.        

[Tijgy]

8 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi Tijgy!  That was awesome, good work!  There is so much to find, I have posted AGOT stuff and you're posting ACOK stuff.  I've just re-read the first Bran chapter in ADWD so I can follow Evita's suggested order and there is loads of stuff in there as well!  [I too had problems with the site this week, oh well]

 

Thanks 

8 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Good job Tijgy!  If I start to post from Bran's ADWD chapters, and you're still re-reading ACOK and finding cool stuff, still post it if you think it links to what we're looking for.  It all helps to understand this line of enquiry, and pinpoints where these descriptive chapters are for future reference.  You could be our ACOK correspondent [Meanwhile in ACOK......]  Plus you're looking at the same stuff as Evita, LongRider and I, we should team up and see what comes from our speculative musings.  Again these are the first steps into such enquiry.        

Very good plan!

 

I also want quickly to put a little addendum to my analysis of Jon IV.

When Jon follows, he notices: "The trees stood beneath him, warriors armored in bark and leaf, deployed in their silent ranks awaiting the command to storm the hill. Black, they seemed . . . it was only when his torchlight brushed against them that Jon glimpsed a flash of green."

I already thought the first time this was quite familiar. But after scrolling quickly through the Bran reread (to see if something which was addresses that might be interesting for your analysis of Bran I , I saw it somewhere mentioned that "the trees stood shoulder to shoulder, like men in a battle line, all cloaked in white" (Bran I, ADWD). And some later "Snowflakes drifted down soundlessly to cloak the soldier pines and sentinels in white (Bran III, ADWD)

I think it is kind peculiar how multiple times (and that was a quick search) trees are seen as soldier and sentinels, either in black/green or white. And then we have our own black sentinel/forester who is described as a tree (Dywen). Should this have an extra meaning? 

(Edit: I think this is just a really interesting rereading because we look for similar things in different POVs (Theon & Tyrion, Jon & Bran, Tyrion & Bran, ...), while other rereads are mostly based on the evolution of a POV character or at most a comparison of two characters. And it is also a reread that really focuses on details, like wind, trees and Raven ). 

[LongRider]

On 1/25/2016 at 5:13 PM, Tijgy said:

("Jon heard the ravens before he saw them. Some were calling his name. The birds were not shy when it came to making noise. They feel it too”). Jon Then Jon goes to serve Mormont and his officers durin

Hey Tijgy good research there, many good connections of forest, trees and wind.  And the description of the of forest as a sea does have a few 'Patchface' connotations although it might just be atmosphere.  

As to the quote above, what caught my eye is this  'Jon heard the ravens before he saw them. Some were calling his name.'   His name?  Hmmm, I starting to think that Raven (nice job giving him a name) and the NW birds need their own rereads.  So many of the birds know Jon's name, not just Raven?  Very interesting. 

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 11:12 AM, Tijgy said:

I think it is kind peculiar how multiple times (and that was a quick search) trees are seen as soldier and sentinels, either in black/green or white. And then we have our own black sentinel/forester who is described as a tree (Dywen). Should this have an extra meaning? 

(Edit: I think this is just a really interesting rereading because we look for similar things in different POVs (Theon & Tyrion, Jon & Bran, Tyrion & Bran, ...), while other rereads are mostly based on the evolution of a POV character or at most a comparison of two characters. And it is also a reread that really focuses on details, like wind, trees and Raven ). 

I agree the soldier and sentinels are very prominent in the text, early in AGOT as well.[Prologue, WF Godswood etc]  The colours are interesting as well, I have an eye on this.  I don't know about Dywen, he does talk a lot of sense, perhaps this similarity is a subtle hint that the trees are just as friendly yet wiser still.  A kind of Septon Barth figure to be trusted, ala we should trust the trees.    Not sure.

And as for the edit, yes this is a very unique re-read as you note.  Rather than have a strict structure early on, we have just posted as we see fit, looking for all this info to help Evita.  I will post some sort of order from now on, Bran's first 3 chapters then onto others after Bran III, looking for his growing powers.  But this is still a skeleton approach and there is much more to be gleaned from the text.  And I agree it's the details like the wind, trees, ravens etc... that really stick out in this thread.  It helps break down the various literary techniques he's potentially using too.    

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Hi people.  Evita and I had said we were going to do a close read of these chapters, and that is still very much an option, there is loads GRRM packs into most paragraphs it seems.  But for now I will just post my style of analysis, having done some research on the wind, ravens etc…….

BRAN I, ADWD

Before the snows began, the north wind would swirl around them and clouds of dead brown leaves would kick up from the ground with a feint smell and rustling sound that reminded him of roaches scurrying in a cupboard, but now all the leaves were buried under a blanket of white.  From time to time a raven would fly overhead, big black wings ‘slapping’ against the cold air.  Elsewise the world was silent.

We start with a memory of the ‘north wind swirling around them’ and leaves rustling.  This also leads to one of his cool and subtle descriptive scenes, the leaves as roaches.  I am pretty much certain there is a presence in the wind, watching, following, and the north wind in particular is very interesting.  There is actually a personified wind in Homer’s tales and the north wind is the main protagonist.  More in a future post. 

And we have the raven flying overhead just to remind us they are there too.  The ‘slapping’ I highlighted as that’s the sort of thing George uses for cloaks, much like ‘flapping’.  All bird terminology that maybe being used around the wind and cloaks. [The wind makes the cloak come half alive in the prologue.]

After this, Jojen is struggling, Meera shelters him from the wind and cold.  Bran talks of slipping into Summer and Hodor.  Bran feels the ‘bite’ of the cold when in Summer, then we get……….

From a nearby oak a raven quorked, and Bran heard the sound of wings as another of the big black birds ‘flapped’ down to land beside it.  By day only half a dozen ravens stayed with them, flitting from tree to tree or riding on the antlers of the elk.  The rest of the murder flew ahead or lingered behind.  But when the sun sank low they would return, descending from the sky on night-black wings until every branch of every tree was thick with them for yards around.  Some would fly to the ranger and mutter at him, and it seemed to Bran that he understood their quorks and squawks.  They are his eyes and ears.  They scout for him, and whisper to him of dangers ahead and behind.

The ravens are there, and again I highlight ‘flapping’ as terminology to watch.  We also get an awesome sentence ‘half a dozen staying with them, flitting from tree to tree.’’  [He has a crow do this in the RL’s while following Arya.]  Also there were about half a dozen old greenseers that Bran ends up seeing in the cave.  I wonder if they’re all on duty at the moment, watching, protecting.  And the ravens flying ahead or lingering behind are the lookout for our gang, and plenty of them it would seem.  Cool.

Then the notion that the ravens actually talk to CH.  And I think they definitely do!  We know that’s what used to happen back in the day before maesters starting attaching messages.  And the ravens were of course telling CH that there were men following them, and that they are foes.  Good work!  CH acts immediately………..

Coldhands slipped between the trees, back the way they’d come with four ravens ‘flapping’ after him. 

As he leaves, the choice of words are cool. ‘Slipping between the trees’ is another nod to BR/Old Gods.  And we get another ‘flapping’ reference.  They then speak of how weird Coldhands is, and that he doesn’t eat, sleep etc...............        As they were talking……………………….

Bran glanced about uneasily, but there was not a raven to be seen. All the big black birds had left them when the ranger did. No one was listening. Even so, he kept his voice low.

This is I think just a subtle line that says, yes, they are indeed listening, even though they aren’t present at the moment.  When they get to the lake they turn ‘north’ as Coldhands had told them too.  Then………

The elk went where it would, regardless of the wishes of Meera and Jojen on his back.  Mostly he stayed beneath the trees, but where the shore curved away westward he would take the more direct path across the frozen lake, shouldering through snowdrifts taller than Bran as the ice crackled underneath his hooves.  Out there the wind was stronger, a cold north wind that howled across the lake, knifed through their layers of wool and leather, and set them all to shivering.  When it blew into their faces, it would drive the snow into their eyes and leave them as good as blind.

Could this be a Homeric led elk?  Or a BR/greenseer x inhabited elk? It seemed to be going wherever it wanted, or more specifically, north.  Exactly the way CH had said to go, and they were worried about time as well.  When the lake turned west, the elk ploughed on north through some very thick snow!  And then once they’re on the open lake, the personified/zoomorphic ‘north wind’ blows around them, and when it blew in their faces it left them ‘good as blind.’  Hmmm, sounds Bloodraveny to me.  Bran then slips into Summer so he can find the fishing village and we get………….

Where before there had been silence, now he heard: wind in the trees, Hodor’s breathing, the elk…

So the wind is in the trees.  Leading to this subtle personification such as Tijgy has shown in her posts, a sort of tree battle formation.………………..

Summer ran.  Across the lake he raced, his paws kicking up sprays of snow behind him.  The trees stood shoulder to shoulder, like men in a battle line, all cloaked in white.

Awesome!  Summer then gets the scent of a dead fire……

He shook the snow off his muzzle. The wind was gusting, so the smells were hard to follow. The wolf turned this way and that, sniffing. All around were heaps of snow and tall trees garbed in white. The wolf let his tongue loll out between his teeth, tasting the frigid air, his breath misting as snowflakes melted on his tongue. When he trotted toward the scent, Hodor lumbered after him at once. The elk took longer to decide, so Bran returned reluctantly to his own body and said ‘’That way. Follow Summer. I smelled it.’’

Following the earlier north wind, a subtle rustle of leaves and trees coming to life in the chapter, we get the ‘gusting’ of the wind again.  It seems the wind is a problem to Summer here, I think that’s clever writing to deflect the fact there is a presence in it, watching, helping.  Anyway, it’s another ‘gust’ of wind, which is consistent.

With the second bolded sentence, when Hodor lumbered after him at once, it made me think that he is probably attuned to the telepathic like communication the Skinchangers seem to use.  Kind of having the ability to understand if not actually have any skill himself.  Maybe not. 

Once at the fishing village, the wind is mentioned, and again it’s negative.

‘’At least we will be out of the wind’’ Bran said.  ‘’Hodor’’ said Hodor.

But at least they had a roof above their heads and log walls to keep the wind off.

Again I think this is clever writing, deflecting any notion that the wind is helping, or trying too.  It’s watching at the very least.  And to be fair, it is cold.  That must’ve felt great to find shelter!  Having settled down, Bran can’t sleep, so he slips into Summer, and smelt a kill, man flesh! 

The direwolf moved towards the meat, a gaunt grey shadow sliding from tree to tree, through pools of moonlight and over mounds of snow.  The wind gusted around him, shifting.  He lost the scent, found it, then lost it again.  As he searched for it once more, a distant sound made his ears prick up.  Wolf, he knew at once.

While Bran/Summer try to follow the scent of their target, I love that first bolded sentence.  I think this is foreshadowing Bran’s ultimate fate, ‘a gaunt grey Stark sliding from tree to tree’ [although this could have its up sides as well don’t forget. Nevertheless a far cry from his dream of knighthood.]  And again we get the wind ‘gusting around him’, certainly pointing to a continued presence IMO.   

Next, having fought Varamyr’s pack for the meat and won, he feeds on the men…….

When he was done with that one, he moved to the next, and devoured the choicest bits of that man too.  Raven’s watched him from the trees, squatting dark-eyed and silent on the branches as snow drifted down around them.

The ravens are still there watching everything.  Once you realise they are probably inhabited, and ones to watch, they pop up everywhere!  Perhaps BR/Leaf/greenseer x know more of Bran’s skinchanging than we thought? 

This next bit is one to watch, and thanks again Tijgy for your ideas on this…………   

Coldhands stood beside the door, a raven on his arm, both staring at the fire.  Reflections from the flames glittered off four black eyes.  He does not eat, Bran remembered, and he fears the flames.

We have had glowing/glittering eyes before in the text, and would certainly seem to imply a ‘magic’ behind that glittery glow.  Golden/yellow eyes are ones to watch as well, I think showing a skinchanging ability.  Nice catch, and definitely noted for future reference……….

Bran then questions CH about the dead nights watch men he saw [and ate ] while in Summer.

‘’You killed them.  You and the ravens.  Their faces were all torn, and their eyes were gone.’’  Coldhands did not deny it.

Now there’s a picture for you.  CH and the ravens killing those few men of the NW, and he didn’t deny it!  That sounds horrific!  I wonder exactly how he did this?  Is he just hard as nails with a bunch of ravens helping him?  Or did he skinchange one of Varamyr’s wolves to achieve this?  Maybe there were others present to skinchange all three of the wolves?  Who knows, but a cool thought, if not a gruesome visual.                

As the crew ask more questions, CH goes on to explain that he is basically dead, and the gang freak out a little bit, Meera jumps into action, with spear in hand and wants some answers……………..

‘’Who sent you?  Who is this three-eyed crow?’’

‘’A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will.  The last greenseer.’’  The longhall’s wooden door banged open.  Outside, ‘the night wind howled’, bleak and black.  The trees were full of ravens, screaming.  Coldhands did not move

Awesome!  Looking back at the text, this is straight up telling us that BR/last greenseer/friend/dreamer/wizard is who they’re looking for.  So with what we know of the possibilities within the wind it is very apt that the door should ‘bang open’ due to a personified [or more accurately zoomorphic] wind that is howling, as if to announce BR’s arrival in the longhall, ha, what great timing!   

To conclude the chapter…………..   

‘’A monster,’’ Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. ‘’Your monster, Brandon Stark.’’

‘’Yours,’’ the raven echoed, from his shoulder.  Outside the door, the ravens in the trees took up the cry, until the night wood echoed to the murderer’s song of ‘’Yours, yours, yours.’’

How many ravens are in on this thing?  Imagine the noise of this large in number murder of ravens singing this song. ‘’Yours, yours, yours’’ pretty creepy.  And I thought the wording interesting as well, the murderer’s song.  This of course could just simply apply to the chorus of song by the birds, but the fact CH has seemingly just murdered a bunch of men, this caught my attention.  Maybe nothing.    While on the subject though, this is where CH got his ‘pork’.  Hmmm.

IN CONCLUSION

A quick summary.  We have… the north wind howling – leaves rustling and trees coming to life – more raven/bird imagery [flapping, slapping etc] – Ravens watching everything and protecting the crew – Ravens actually talking to CH and warning him of foes – possible Homeric/Old Gods influence over the elk – the north wind making them ‘as good as blind’ – a couple of flitting/sliding from tree to tree references [possible foreshadowing] – glittering/glowing eyes [maybe magic eyes] – and finally BR barging into the longhall when Bran and co really pressed for an answer for who they were looking for.  All very cool!!

There is more to talk about in this chapter, but this is long enough.  Thanks for reading. 

[LongRider]

Thanks for writing!

I just want to add some background for Cold Hands.  Although we meet him in Sam's POV, in my view it relates to Bran.  Will make this brief.

Sam and Gilly spend the night in a abandoned wilding long hall where they are attacked by wights in the night.  There is a weirwood tree several feet outside the hall.  After fighting the wights indoors they get outside and:

 

Quote

 

Sam made a whimpery sound. "It's not fair . . ."

"Fair." The raven landed on his shoulder. "Fair, far, fear." It flapped its wings, and screamed along with Gilly. The wights were almost on her. He heard the dark red leaves of the weirwood rustling, whispering to one another in a tongue he did not know. The starlight itself seemed to stir, and all around them the trees groaned and creaked. Sam Tarly turned the color of curdled milk, and his eyes went wide as plates. Ravens! They were in the weirwood, hundreds of them, thousands, perched on the bone-white branches, peering between the leaves. He saw their beaks open as they screamed, saw them spread their black wings. Shrieking, flapping, they descended on the wights in angry clouds.

 

The ravens fight the wights allowing Sam and Gilly to get away; 

 

Quote

 

"Go," said the bird on his shoulder. "Go, go, go."

Sam ran, puffs of frost exploding from his mouth. All around him the wights flailed at the black wings and sharp beaks that assailed them, falling in an eerie silence with never a grunt nor cry. But the ravens ignored Sam. He took Gilly by the hand and pulled her away from the weirwood. "We have to go."

"But where?" Gilly hurried after him, holding her baby. "They killed our horse, how will we . . ."

"Brother!" The shout cut through the night, through the shrieks of a thousand ravens. Beneath the trees, a man muffled head to heels in mottled blacks and greys sat astride an elk. "Here," the rider called. A hood shadowed his face.

He's wearing blacks. Sam urged Gilly toward him. The elk was huge, a great elk, ten feet tall at the shoulder, with a rack of antlers near as wide. The creature sank to his knees to let them mount. "Here," the rider said, reaching down with a gloved hand to pull Gilly up behind him. Then it was Sam's turn. "My thanks," he puffed. Only when he grasped the offered hand did he realize that the rider wore no glove. His hand was black and cold, with fingers hard as stone.       

 

We meet Cold Hands in the midst of a dramatic wight attack.  But all the elements mentioned in Wizz's post are there; the ravens, the leaves rustling, the weirwood tree itself and of course, CH. 

Here the ravens say words, commands mostly to Sam and the thousands of them fight the wights.  The ravens, the weirwood trees and CH himself all speak, scream or whisper, but the wights fall "in an eerie silence".  The wights are silent, but what the Old Gods touch, are not.

While there is no wind, even the starlight seems to stir, for all of this is to rescue Sam, for without Sam, CH can't get his message to Bran beyond the black gate at the Nightfort.  The consistency of the wind, leaves, ravens and cold continue all along Bran's travels with CH, from the first meeting to the last.  Brilliant!

edt; a second look at the chapter and I find a bit of wind.  It's noticed when Sam leaves the hall to bring the garon inside before he and Gilly fall asleep; 

Quote

A biting wind was blowing from the north, and the leaves in the trees rattled at him as he passed.

Again the wind is personalized.  No wind is mentioned later during the attack tho. 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

5 hours ago, LongRider said:

Thanks for writing!

I just want to add some background for Cold Hands.  Although we meet him in Sam's POV, in my view it relates to Bran.  Will make this brief.

Nice post Longie!  Thanks for the background, there are a lot of similarities there, love it. [And of course Sam's chapters need looking at as well, the list grows]  I like the visual we get of the ravens attacking the wights and leaving Sam alone.  That may explain the nights watch men's demise due to CH, under the attack of such a large number of ravens in their murder.  I still like the skinchanging option though.     Haha!

The various words they say is interesting as well.  Fair, far, fear, and then go, go etc...  We already have a reasonably extensive raven vocabulary, why not [as I think] have the ravens drop on CH shoulder and have a full on conversation........

''Yeah, err, CH mate, we have some proper trouble in the rear, might be you have to go and deal with this erm..... irritation.  Go, go, go'' 

And as you mention another personified wind.  And a 'north' wind at that.  As I briefly mentioned earlier, the 'north' wind is a player in Homer, and is personified in it's own right, with the wind god 'Boreas' inhabiting it.  More research needed before posting though.   

[LongRider]

Thanks Wizz, I noticed the wind mentioned in Sam's POV was a north wind and I can't help but wonder; it appeared before the wights and the deep cold that occurred when the wights showed up.  And yes, the actual words spoken by the crows Fair, far, fear.  No Sam, it's not fair, you have far to go and much to fear.  Ditto Bran for that as well.  

As for the crows, a thought just occurred to me, Bran and Sam are both well acquainted with crows before meeting CH.  The crows order Sam about and the 3EC visits Bran in dreams.  As for CH, the crows talk to the crow.  They are definitely giving he reconnaissance  and early warnings.

One brief mention of Arya, I looked over her RL chapters and her mentions of crows were very few, only three maybe.  But, of those two stood out to me, one where the crows are pecking at the corpses in the cages hung at Stoney Sept.  Arya wonders what they are saying to each other, and then the one mentioned to be following her and the Hound after the fight at the Inn. 

The two mentions, especially the last one are interesting.  Arya the warg notes the crows talking to each other, and the crow following and watching Arya and the Hound for whom?   BR perhaps?

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

32 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Thanks Wizz, I noticed the wind mentioned in Sam's POV was a north wind and I can't help but wonder; it appeared before the wights and the deep cold that occurred when the wights showed up.  And yes, the actual words spoken by the crows Fair, far, fear.  No Sam, it's not fair, you have far to go and much to fear.  Ditto Bran for that as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey Longie, I'm excited by this 'north wind', Evita could I'm sure shed some light on this subject, but at the moment I'm working my way through some websites to gain some info.  I have seen some separations of the wind and the cold in the text [not always] but for sure the 'north wind' seems a separate entity all together IMO.  And this would fit the personified wind we find in Homer. [Boreas is the inhabitant of the north wind, and a main player, there are other wind gods as well]  The north wind I think [sticking my neck out] shows a 100% presence of Old Gods/BR/greenseer x. 

As for whether or not our crow in the RL's 'flitting from tree to tree' is BR.  I'd say, yes, a huge possibility.  It fits so well with what we know of BR.  However, as bemused has pointed out, there are always those greenseers Bran saw in the cave.  And they would surely be using all the same techniques as BR/Bran, so they are a possibility as well.  But I call it's BR, he does have a thousand eyes and one after all. 

I like your idea that the ravens words relate to Sam's journey as well.     

[LongRider]

I don't know if the North Wind is an entity, but does have elements of it.  In some thread or another () perhaps a Heresy, it's noted that the cold that comes with the WW seems to have elements of an entity too, (for lack of a better word).  The cold of the wights and WW's is different than the cold of the North.  And the wind?  If the cold can be associated with the wights/WW, then perhaps the wind is associated with BR.  It seems, that many times the wind comes before the cold.  The wind works to get the attention of someone, and then the cold.  The cold that can be 'smelled.'

Oh, and upthread you ask, how many ravens can be in on this 'talking' thing?  Good question, pair it with; how many ravens carry a lingering sense of previous greenseers warging them?  Bran notes them right away the first time he wargs a raven.  How many greenseer warged ravens are out there?

[Wizz-The-Smith]

17 minutes ago, LongRider said:

I don't know if the North Wind is an entity, but does have elements of it.  In some thread or another () perhaps a Heresy, it's noted that the cold that comes with the WW seems to have elements of an entity too, (for lack of a better word).  The cold of the wights and WW's is different than the cold of the North.  And the wind?  If the cold can be associated with the wights/WW, then perhaps the wind is associated with BR.  It seems, that many times the wind comes before the cold.  The wind works to get the attention of someone, and then the cold.  The cold that can be 'smelled.'

Oh, and upthread you ask, how many ravens can be in on this 'talking' thing?  Good question, pair it with; how many ravens carry a lingering sense of previous greenseers warging them?  Bran notes them right away the first time he wargs a raven.  How many greenseer warged ravens are out there?

Yeah sorry, I don't really mean an entity all by itself in that respect, as in just the north wind.  But I think the north wind is important to identify the presence within the wind as a whole.  In Homer [small research] the north wind is personified and plays with various subjects, just like our north wind does.  And yes the wind does precede the cold a lot of time, as I have shown in my AGOT prologue analysis, and they do seem separate to one another in most cases.  I agree the cold is wights/WW associated and the wind is Old Gods/BR associated, but I feel the north wind [and gusts] is our literary clue to Homer links for Old Gods/BR in the wind.   

I like your thinking on the ravens and their lingering skinchanging partners, this is confirmed by Bran, how many are there?  Plenty IMO, there are sooo many ravens following Bran it's crazy, all singing as well.  And Samwell's lot etc.......

[Wizz-The-Smith]

This is a brief description of Boreas, as I say this is new research for me, and may come to nothing.  But I find it interesting that this north wind is in Homers tales, and possibly links to all the info that Evita's posts have shown.  Here's a brief description of Boreas from 'a' source on the web......... 

In historical relevance, Boreas was the Greek god of the cold north wind. He was often depicted as a winged bearded old man holding a conch shell and wearing a billowing cloak. One of four directional Anemoi (wind-gods). He was also the god of the winter, who swept down from the cold northern mountains of Thrake, chilling the air with his icy breath.

There are other mentions of using mist, various wing references, there is obviously a lot more to look into, but this does touch on some of the things we're finding. north wind, winged [bird imagery], billowing cloaks, god of winter from the north etc.....  I will continue to look into this as much as a keen amateur can. And I'm sure Evita could perhaps shed some light.   

[LongRider]

Boreas, Greek god of cold north wind.  The Old Gods, is the cold north wind, part of their powers? <<<< powers used due lack of word to fully describe what the 'intelligent' cold north wind might be.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

19 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Boreas, Greek god of cold north wind.  The Old Gods, is the cold north wind, part of their powers? <<<< powers used due lack of word to fully describe what the 'intelligent' cold north wind might be.

Is it part of their powers?  Yes, I would say definitely. [although some may disagree ]  It all fits rather well into what Evita has posted about in her OP, ie: the Homeric notions.  GRRM plays with these themes, so nothing will be exactly as it is in other literature, but there are some striking similarities in this case.  He has licence to play with these ideas, for example in Homer [I think] there are four gods for each wind, north, south etc.... whereas I think there is just one presence in the wind for Asoiaf. [Boreas perhaps being the main inspiration?]  But the clever textual similarities [the cold north wind being the main protagonist in the Greek tales] gives us the clue that George is playing with these ideas, and are something to be looked at.   

[bemused]

Just nipping in quickly guys.. wow, you're working hard, and finding lots of fun stuff.

I always thought the crow was following Arya for Bloodraven ( and there may be more than one, but she just doesn't notice them ) The RL are full of corvids (ravens, crows.. do people always bother to notice the difference?)

I had forgotten about Arya wondering what the crows were saying to each other..that's a great touch by GRRM.

When Jaime goes to settle the stand-off between Bracken and Blackwood.. The chapter opens with mention of Raventree Hall and it's heart tree. Jaime visits Lord Bracken first, and Bracken, speaking of Lord Blackwood, says... “We’ve driven him and his from the field and penned them up inside Raventree." .. and of course, this could be seen as analogous with Bloodraven. He was (apparently) driven from the field of political life and is now penned up more or less inside a weirwood (which, above ground is probably also used for perching by ravens).. Raventree is named for the weirwood at the heart of it's godswood. BR's mother was a Blackwood, so for some time, this was (and to some degree probably still is ) Bloodraven's home turf.

Later, Jaime asks Lord Blackwood... “And the ravens?” asked Jaime. “Where are they?”
“They come at dusk and roost all night. Hundreds of them. They cover the tree like black leaves, every limb and every branch. They have been coming for thousands of years. How or why, no man can say, yet the tree draws them every night.” .. so where are they out and about to, during the day ? .. And after the Arya clue, should we not imagine that they are saying things to each other (comparing notes on what they might have seen in this or that corner of the RL, or beyond) ? .. I don't think we should disallow it.

To Jaime, the tree appears "bare and dead" ... “The Brackens poisoned it,” said his host. “For a thousand years it has not shown a leaf. In another thousand it will have turned to stone, the maesters say. Weirwoods never rot.” ... We can be excused for taking what the maesters say with more than a grain of salt. looking dead (or mostly dead) is not necessarily Dead , as we suspect from Jaime's weirwood stump dream.

I do think Cold Hands understands the ravens (part of what makes me think "they" did kill him very long ago, because the ravens were initially taught in the old tongue., and the older he is , the more likely he is to understand it.) ... Here's something interesting to muse on.. if BR or Bran are on the "weirnet" do they understand the old tongue because of sharing the awareness / memories of other greenseers?.. and if so, how might that affect the abilty of more birds having more words in the common tongue , with BR and Bran both on the case ? (I mean, it's easier to teach someone your language, if you understand theirs.. and how much easier, if you had mind to mind communication?)

Homer aside.. There are lots of old folk tales from all over that personify winds, etc. - that most probably stretch back to very old nature based spiritual beliefs. This would be compatible with the Fist men "old gods" / original CotF beliefs (the weirwoods are the gods to the CotF... when you die you go down into the earth and become a part of all that is, according to wildlings).. So if, in our world, these are pretty universal ideas, why cleave to Homer ?

Forgive me if my focus strays from Evita's original intent, but I think (hope) other perspectives might be informative, too.. Perhaps wind might sometimes, just be wind .. and when it's inhabited, perhaps it's not always by the same persona/power.. But if it is always the same.. then I don't think the North Wind is necessarily our heroes' friend, and is unlikely to be inhabited by BR (or Bran).

Looking at the journey of Bran & co....  The elk went where he would, regardless of the wishes of Meera and Jojen on his back. Mostly he stayed beneath the trees, ... OK , right now over on the direwolves re-read they're mentioning how often the trees are likened to soldiers or sentinels.. which accentuates the normal idea of trees offering protection from the elements (or, in this case, perhaps from something more).

Then, out on the lake ... a cold north wind that howled across the lake, knifed through their layers of wool and leather, and set them all to shivering. When it blew into their faces, it would drive the snow into their eyes and leave them as good as blind.

 .. Very often a POV's adversary or enemy is described as "howling". ... Bowen fears  the prospect of -  Tormund Giantsbane or the Weeping Man come calling with ten thousand howling killers ...when Asha is captured - the trees erupted all around them, and the northmen poured in howling ...  The selaesori Qhoran is destroyed by - a howling gale ... And Jon's nightmare - That night he dreamt of wildlings howling from the woods, advancing to the moan of warhorns and the roll of drums (there are more comparisons I could quote, just from ADWD, but you get the idea.

So,back to Bran & co.... a wind that howled shows animosity, knifed shows animosity and so does leaving them as good a s blind. Bran then sends Summer to find the abandoned village that they need to reach before nightfall, but - The wind was gusting, so the smells were hard to follow. 

We know CH is trying to help them, the ravens are trying to help them, but this north wind is trying to obstruct and delay them in trying to find needed shelter - in every way possible. So, I can't think that it's inhabited by BR or any of the greenseers at the cave. This also means that I can't see all the winds, from all directions, as having only one source.

I tend to think of wind as not being personified, but a natural force that can be manipulated by magic from many sources. Or, to use the example of crows flying before a storm.. the birds give warning, but they don't create the wind. They are able to fly on the wind that brings the storm itself, but they are not the storm's creatures.

One more notable example... when Jon takes the recruits to swear their oath at the weirwood grove ... A north wind swirled through the trees below, sending thin white plumes of snow crystals flying from the highest branches, like icy banners.  Elsewise nothing moved. Not a sign of life. That was not entirely reassuring. It was not the living that he feared. Even so …

The banners create a military feel ... it's like Jon's facing an army, and because they're icy banners we can guess who the enemy is ... and Jon confirms that he's has fears about an army of the dead. The icy banners are lifted by a north wind.

I could go on, but I don't have time, right now.

 

 

 

[LongRider]

18 hours ago, bemused said:

.. Here's something interesting to muse on.. if BR or Bran are on the "weirnet" do they understand the old tongue because of sharing the awareness / memories of other greenseers?.. and if so, how might that affect the abilty of more birds having more words in the common tongue , with BR and Bran both on the case ? (I mean, it's easier to teach someone your language, if you understand theirs.. and how much easier, if you had mind to mind communication?)

 

18 hours ago, bemused said:

Perhaps wind might sometimes, just be wind .. and when it's inhabited, perhaps it's not always by the same persona/power.. But if it is always the same.. then I don't think the North Wind is necessarily our heroes' friend, and is unlikely to be inhabited by BR (or Bran).

 

18 hours ago, bemused said:

I tend to think of wind as not being personified, but a natural force that can be manipulated by magic from many sources. Or, to use the example of crows flying before a storm.. the birds give warning, but they don't create the wind. They are able to fly on the wind that brings the storm itself, but they are not the storm's creatures.

Great stuff bemused! 

I like the idea of the wind being manipulated by magic.  If so, then yes that would open many doors as to who, how and when, not all for Bran and not all against either.   I was reaching for what personified the wind and really, magic fits the bill I think.  Sometimes it's the wind, sometimes it's influenced by BR and other times it's influenced by the (?) Heart of the Winter.  At least, that seems more clear to me now. 

As for the ravens having the speech of the cotf and later the speech of Westeros, well, if the greenseers awareness is still faint in the ravens, and perhaps some more than others, it might just well be they can talk to a few who can understand them, like BR and CH. 

We know that Raven at the Wall knows some words, more than we expect.  But where would a talking raven come from to find and help Sam?  If CH came because of BR, then it's a short leap to see that the talking raven did as well.  Great post, thanks!

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎01‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 6:00 AM, bemused said:

Just nipping in quickly guys.. wow, you're working hard, and finding lots of fun stuff.

I always thought the crow was following Arya for Bloodraven ( and there may be more than one, but she just doesn't notice them ) The RL are full of corvids (ravens, crows.. do people always bother to notice the difference?)

I had forgotten about Arya wondering what the crows were saying to each other..that's a great touch by GRRM.

When Jaime goes to settle the stand-off between Bracken and Blackwood.. The chapter opens with mention of Raventree Hall and it's heart tree. Jaime visits Lord Bracken first, and Bracken, speaking of Lord Blackwood, says... “We’ve driven him and his from the field and penned them up inside Raventree." .. and of course, this could be seen as analogous with Bloodraven. He was (apparently) driven from the field of political life and is now penned up more or less inside a weirwood (which, above ground is probably also used for perching by ravens).. Raventree is named for the weirwood at the heart of it's godswood. BR's mother was a Blackwood, so for some time, this was (and to some degree probably still is ) Bloodraven's home turf.

Later, Jaime asks Lord Blackwood... “And the ravens?” asked Jaime. “Where are they?”
“They come at dusk and roost all night. Hundreds of them. They cover the tree like black leaves, every limb and every branch. They have been coming for thousands of years. How or why, no man can say, yet the tree draws them every night.” .. so where are they out and about to, during the day ? .. And after the Arya clue, should we not imagine that they are saying things to each other (comparing notes on what they might have seen in this or that corner of the RL, or beyond) ? .. I don't think we should disallow it.

To Jaime, the tree appears "bare and dead" ... “The Brackens poisoned it,” said his host. “For a thousand years it has not shown a leaf. In another thousand it will have turned to stone, the maesters say. Weirwoods never rot.” ... We can be excused for taking what the maesters say with more than a grain of salt. looking dead (or mostly dead) is not necessarily Dead , as we suspect from Jaime's weirwood stump dream.

I do think Cold Hands understands the ravens (part of what makes me think "they" did kill him very long ago, because the ravens were initially taught in the old tongue., and the older he is , the more likely he is to understand it.) ... Here's something interesting to muse on.. if BR or Bran are on the "weirnet" do they understand the old tongue because of sharing the awareness / memories of other greenseers?.. and if so, how might that affect the abilty of more birds having more words in the common tongue , with BR and Bran both on the case ? (I mean, it's easier to teach someone your language, if you understand theirs.. and how much easier, if you had mind to mind communication?)

Hi bemused!  I love your thoughts on the ravens at Raventree and the potential of what they may see or hear around the RL's, I agree the Arya hints are cool as well. 

The old tongue and the new.   That 'is' something interesting to muse on.  I like your take that CH may understand the old tongue due to his age etc....  As for the whole translation thing for Bran and BR, that is a mind blower.  I have no clue really, but my first thought was to agree with your idea that sharing their awareness/memories would facilitate any understanding.  That would solve any translation issues which would be a massive problem otherwise.  At the very least, a cool little something to look out for/think about, maybe we'll see a raven whisper in a giants ear?    Probably not.  Anyway thanks again for your ideas.   

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎01‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 6:00 AM, bemused said:

Homer aside.. There are lots of old folk tales from all over that personify winds, etc. - that most probably stretch back to very old nature based spiritual beliefs. This would be compatible with the Fist men "old gods" / original CotF beliefs (the weirwoods are the gods to the CotF... when you die you go down into the earth and become a part of all that is, according to wildlings).. So if, in our world, these are pretty universal ideas, why cleave to Homer ?

Forgive me if my focus strays from Evita's original intent, but I think (hope) other perspectives might be informative, too.. Perhaps wind might sometimes, just be wind .. and when it's inhabited, perhaps it's not always by the same persona/power.. But if it is always the same.. then I don't think the North Wind is necessarily our heroes' friend, and is unlikely to be inhabited by BR (or Bran).

Haha, of course you're right, re-reading some of my posts I did kind of hammer the Homer point a bit too much.  My reason for citing Homer is purely based on the subject of the OP, which IMO has a lot of merit.  I am not trying to enforce  any idea that all of this is and must be based around Homer, forgive me if that's the impression I gave, I'm simply basing my research on a lot of the info from the OP.  I did find various tales of personified wind gods etc.. in my search, but for reasons previously/just mentioned I was drawn towards Boreas [speculatively so, saying it may come to nothing] and thought it worth a post. 

Which brings me onto your second paragraph.  No need to 'think or hope' other perspectives may be informative, I for one welcome them.  You're always polite and quote text to back opinions which is how every thread should be.  But more importantly they are different opinions and that's what any good thread needs, hopefully leading to some friendly informative discussion. 

Another thing that had me chuckling to myself was I wrote ' I'll stick my neck out and say the north wind is 100% the old gods etc..'  Well, I am now reeling my neck in a little as the executioner 'bemused' has me pondering whether or not I was perhaps a bit excited about some of the stuff I was finding.    You have turned my head again with the suggestion of others being present in a magical wind.  100% sure, what was I thinking?  I forgot what book series I was reading for a minute there.  Slap forehead moment.    

However,  I think we do still have some different ideas on the wind, and just how much it comes into play.  I agree sometimes the wind is just the wind, and you have made me think about a few things, especially another presence inhabiting it.  But I think it's a reasonable statement to say I am currently seeing more in the wind than you, perhaps not?  More in my reply to 'howling wind' in Bran I.      

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On ‎01‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 6:00 AM, bemused said:

Homer aside.. There are lots of old folk tales from all over that personify winds, etc. - that most probably stretch back to very old nature based spiritual beliefs. This would be compatible with the Fist men "old gods" / original CotF beliefs (the weirwoods are the gods to the CotF... when you die you go down into the earth and become a part of all that is, according to wildlings).. So if, in our world, these are pretty universal ideas, why cleave to Homer ?

Forgive me if my focus strays from Evita's original intent, but I think (hope) other perspectives might be informative, too.. Perhaps wind might sometimes, just be wind .. and when it's inhabited, perhaps it's not always by the same persona/power.. But if it is always the same.. then I don't think the North Wind is necessarily our heroes' friend, and is unlikely to be inhabited by BR (or Bran).

Haha, of course you're right, re-reading some of my posts I did kind of hammer the Homer point a bit too much.  My reason for citing Homer is purely based on the subject of the OP, which IMO has a lot of merit.  I am not trying to enforce  any idea that all of this is and must be based around Homer, forgive me if that's the impression I gave, I'm simply basing my research on a lot of the info from the OP.  I did find various tales of personified wind gods etc.. in my search, but for reasons previously/just mentioned I was drawn towards Boreas [speculatively so, saying it may come to nothing] and thought it worth a post. 

Which brings me onto your second paragraph.  No need to 'think or hope' other perspectives may be informative, I for one welcome them.  You're always polite and quote text to back opinions which is how every thread should be.  But more importantly they are different opinions and that's what any good thread needs, hopefully leading to some friendly informative discussion. 

Another thing that had me chuckling to myself was I wrote ' I'll stick my neck out and say the north wind is 100% the old gods etc..'  Well, I am now reeling my neck in a little as the executioner 'bemused' has me pondering whether or not I was perhaps a bit excited about some of the stuff I was finding.    You have turned my head again with the suggestion of others being present in a magical wind.  100% sure, what was I thinking?  I forgot what book series I was reading for a minute there.  Slap forehead moment.    

However,  I think we do still have some different ideas on the wind, and just how much it comes into play.  I agree sometimes the wind is just the wind, and you have made me think about a few things, especially another presence inhabiting it.  But I think it's a reasonable statement to say I am currently seeing more in the wind than you, perhaps not?  More in my reply to 'howling wind' in Bran I.