BRAN’S GROWING POWERS AFTER his FINAL POV in ADwD

[Lady Arya's Song]

Tijgy,

Thank you for responding about Dywen. I too have long loved this character and I also believe GRRM is wanting us to see him as some sort of tree soldier.

Here is the part of the story regarding his using a tree as a temporary home.

ACOK

Out under the trees, some rangers had found enough duff and dry wood to start a fire beneath a slanting ridge of slate. Others had raised tents or made rude shelters by stretching their cloaks over low branches. Giant had crammed himself inside the hollow of a dead oak. “How d’ye like my castle, Lord Snow?”

“It looks snug. You know where Sam is?”

“Keep on the way you were. If you come on Ser Ottyn’s pavilion, you’ve gone too far.” Giant smiled. “Unless Sam’s found him a tree too. What a tree that would be.”

 

What a tree indeed!

I am also wondering about the conversation regarding Sam finding a tree!  You know why?  Because Sam did find a tree!  A Brandon Stark tree...and with Bran's growing powers indeed " WHAT a tree that would be."

  Perhaps this was a bit of foreshadowing.   Sorry, I had surgery yesterday on my mouth and still not feeling well enough to spend much time typing but wanted to thank you for writing about Dywen. 

I love Ed Tollett, Dywen, Giant.  These characters are helping Jon and I am very fond of them.  Mayhaps a crack pot idea but I wonder if Ed Tollett's name is a play by Martin regarding  Hands of the King.  Remember way back when Robert told Ned the hand takes the crap for the King?   Could Jon ( I believe our hidden king)  have had his own personal hand ( squire) whose very name was a hint?

Edit so sorry. OOps I blame my mouth surgery yesterday for this lapse, It is Giant, not Dywen hiding in the tree.  I was in the dentist seat for four hours with two extractions and two crowns.  Dry socket issues today so the pain meds are flowing. It was Not Dywen hiding in the tree but another beloved character. Giant.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Hey Tijgy, thanks for the Dywen post.  That was awesome, we have it all in one post to mull over as well.  Your continued hard work is not going unnoticed, glad to see you back with a bit more time. 

I was going to add some more but Lady Arya's Song has bettered my thoughts, so will leave it there.  Great post Lady Arya's Song btw.    

[Lady Arya's Song]

Apologies to you Wizz-The-Smith, I posted a day or so ago and referred to you as a her when your a he.  LOL so sorry.

Thanks for kind words. Will be back later, when I can type better and not in so much pain.

I still think there is a pattern to be found in one eyed people, animals that is a hint that BR has used them and the same with people who clank wooden teeth, and can smell the cold, and also short rangers who sleep in hollow oaks..lol

[Wizz-The-Smith]

20 minutes ago, Lady Arya's Song said:

Perhaps this was a bit of foreshadowing.   Sorry, I had surgery yesterday on my mouth and still not feeling well enough to spend much time typing but wanted to thank you for writing about Dywen. 

I love Ed Tollett, Dywen, Giant.  These characters are helping Jon and I am very fond of them.  Mayhaps a crack pot idea but I wonder if Ed Tollett's name is a play by Martin regarding  Hands of the King.  Remember way back when Robert told Ned the hand takes the crap for the King?   Could Jon ( I believe our hidden king)  have had his own personal hand ( squire) whose very name was a hint?

Hi Lady Arya! 

I really like your thoughts here, great ideas.  I think Evita has some thoughts on Edd and his surname as well.  And I agree he is a loveable character.  I love the way he has such negative thoughts on everything, yet gives them that comedic tone with his funny lines.  The show missed a trick there I think, it would've great if they would've gleaned more lines from the books for Edd.  Oh well.   

[Wizz-The-Smith]

7 minutes ago, Lady Arya's Song said:

Apologies to you Wizz-The-Smith, I posted a day or so ago and referred to you as a her when your a he.  LOL so sorry.

Thanks for kind words. Will be back later, when I can type better and not in so much pain.

I still think there is a pattern to be found in one eyed people, animals that is a hint that BR has used them and the same with people who clank wooden teeth, and can smell the cold, and also short rangers who sleep in hollow oaks..lol

No problem, I laughed when I read that.  Most threads I am active in seem female dominated, all my close friends on the forum are certainly female.   Or perhaps I post like a girl! 

Don't worry about replying, you take care after your surgery.  Hope you feel better soon.

And yes, the one eyed stuff is something I have posted a lot about.  I see BR frequently in the earlier text, and this is just one of the techniques George seems to be using.  See you soon.      

[evita mgfs]

5 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi Evita, and thank you so much.  I’m glad you have now read it, I was sure you would be interested.  As you mention they are references to Bran’s growing powers.  It seemed like a key for us to follow regards the wind, trees, wolves etc… 

So when we got the ‘Wind.  Trees rustling.  A wolf.  Which sound is it that unmans you so Gared’ line it seemed too good to be true.  And right after the ‘howling wind’ and ‘wolf howled’ text as well.  This is why I always link the howling wind with BR, we are given all these clues and he is definitely in the wind here imo.  And everything fits so well with all the other stuff you found for the OP.  Hey, with all you’ve posted about sounds in George’s books perhaps we should bold that word in the sentence as well. 

Onto your awesome observations, I really like what you’ve found.  The fact the wind is always present when Will loses his voice is a great catch.  In fact all three of your examples use descriptions of the wind that I listed as ‘not so descriptive’.  So I’m excited you’ve linked them to Will’s silence.  Like you, I’m not sure exactly what they mean at the moment, but that’s definitely on my list of things to search for.  Thanks.

I agree with your take on their two different attitudes as well, great brain storming.  With our looking at different things it seems we have dovetailed rather nicely whilst analysing this chapter.  I noticed some things I had missed first time round in your post as well, here are some of my thoughts.  You postulate……..

Notice that after the “Branches stirred gently in the wind, scratching at one another with wooden fingers”, Will opens his mouth but cannot speak.  Now, might this mean that the force moving the branches might also silence Will?

I agree there is a force moving these branches.  And I also think the tree is actually temporarily alive, and that perhaps the wind may facilitate/help this.  George perhaps gives us a clue at the beginning of the chapter.

‘’A cold wind was blowing out of the north, and made the trees rustle like living things’’

The trees/branches/leaves rustling is I think very important.  He tells us above that the wind makes the leaves rustle and the trees are then like living things.  This then happens another three times in the chapter.  In this case the ‘branches stirred gently in the wind’ first, insinuating a rustle of leaves. Then the tree is personified and seems to come to life ‘scratching at one another with wooden fingers’. 

I have seen this technique on re-reads quite a lot and hardly touched the surface of the novels really.  He can straight out say ‘the leaves rustled’ or ‘the wind is in the trees’ as he has done.  But also the more subtle ‘branches stirred gently in the wind’ or ‘the branches croaked and groaned’ can be used to avoid repeating the phrase ‘’rustle’ too much.  Although that doesn’t stop him in this ‘set up’ chapter. 

The last example was found by Tijgy, ‘the branches croaked and groaned’ and then the woods turn into ‘a sea, eternal and unknowable’ she then linked the description to a godlike entity.  The eternal and unknowable certainly sounds godlike to me.  I like that one.  Anyway here’s another example from your post……….

“Down below, the lordling called out suddenly, “Who goes there?” Will heard uncertainty in the challenge. He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched.
“The woods gave answer: the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, a distant hoot of a snow owl”.  

You rightly surmise that the woods actually gain a voice at this moment as if in answer.  But there is that mention of the ‘rustling leaves’ again as if to facilitate that voice or personification.  This seems to be consistent so far, a rustle of trees/branches/leaves then the personified text bring the trees to life.  So far we have my ‘cold north wind making trees rustle like living things’ – Your ‘rustle of leaves’ giving the woods a voice – also the ‘branches stirred gently in the wind’ giving the branches wooden fingers.  Here’s a third one…….

“Behind him, he heard the soft metalic slither of the lordling’s ringmail, the rustle of leaves, and muttered curses as reaching branches grabbed at his longsword and tugged on his splendid sable cloak”.

Again the ‘rustle of the leaves’ is followed by the branches having those human traits, tugging and grabbing.  [We see the wind do this also]

Basically I see this as a clever way for George to have his trees come to life ala Tolkien.  A more subtle take, he won’t have them walking about as Tolkien did.  We know about the Weirwood’s having eyes etc…… but if this line of thinking is correct then he could really have some fun with the wind and the trees textually.

Longie found a cool one as well.  In Bran’s falling dream the Heart tree at Winterfell has its 'leaves rustle' and it then actually turns and looks upwards towards Bran.  This being a dream perhaps gave George more licence to play with the tree coming to life, not so subtle that one.  He did go a bit more Tolkien with the trees there.

To conclude, whilst on this forum I have learnt that if George mentions something twice then keep an eye on it.  If he mentions things three times [in the same chapter in this instance] then it may suggest he wants us to take note.

You have found three examples of the wind seeming to effect Will’s voice in some way.  And I have tried to show that the three examples of the rustling leaves helps to bring the trees to life.  So perhaps we are on to something here?  So early in the piece as well, this is potentially huge.

There are other examples in the next few chapters, the leaves rustle when Jon finds Ghost for one.  I think there may be a load of clues littered early in AGOT, I posted about some of my thoughts on the subsequent chapters after posting the prologue analysis. 

Anyway, thanks for your kind words and post.  I have obviously developed my ideas since posting as I spotted a load of stuff I missed.  We make a good team I think. 

MIND BLOWN!  All of your finds are brilliant.

Actually, somewhere in my files I have an essay about repetition in literature in regards to metaphor and motifs.  The author says exactly what you say:  once, blah; twice, head up; three times, THE CHARM!  Martin is doing it deliberately and with a purpose.

I believe - and I have for a long time - that the key to much and more is presented in AGoT through the text AND SUBTEXT.  Astute readers will be able to discern the clues in careful study, but at the same time, the novel is an enjoyable read for others who do not wish to devote time and effort to analyses and tracing the author's motifs and insinuations.

I still have your essays from pages 5 and 6 I am working on.  They will come in time, and I have to catch up with the new posts.  I need to tell Arya's Song about Edd's name - TOILETT/TOILET!

She'll love that - a good pairing for her post on noses and snot!

All I can think of is that commercial with the BOOGER as a spokesperson.

[evita mgfs]

On 4/11/2016 at 4:06 PM, Lady Arya's Song said:

Evita

I wish there was a like button regarding your mention of the Mass in Latin and the language issue of the CofF speaking in Old Tongue.  Good find! 

Whizz comment about Hodor and his one eye frozen shut, I hope so much that she is correct in her idea that he is being used by BR to help get Bran to the Cave.   I worry about this because while he has one eye frozen shut, he also has a hint that is not so good for his long term living.  Please forgive how gross this sounds but GRRM sometimes does the gross.

Snot characters..is it a death clue?

It also mentions that he has frozen snot on his face and beard.  How awful is this?

Well ..I have personally looked up every character in the series that has some type of mucus coming from the nose. It is the same as chewing sour leaf...a real death decree I fear, so I went hunting to make sure our Bran, Arya, Jon, Sansa did not have any mucus..lol 

Sweet Robin is not yet dead, but he is called a snot nosed wretch by Tyrion.

Chiswyck  The men all roared, none louder than Chiswyck himself, who laughed so hard at his own story that snot dribbled from his nose down into his scraggy grey beard. Arya stood in the shadows of the stairwell and watched him

 

Rorge began to laugh. He laughed so hard that snot flew out the hole where his nose had been

 

Lark the Sisterman   . "The Lord Commander wouldn't like that." There was ice under the big man's squashed pug nose, where his snot had frozen. A huge hand in a thick fur glove clenched tight around the shaft of a spear

 

Samwell Tarly but maybe the scarf is a protection.

He had wrapped his scarf over his nose and mouth, but it was covered with snot now, and so stiff he feared it must be frozen to his face

Sallador

"And Sallor picked his nose as if his snot was gold." He stood with his hands crossed at the wrists, his palms resting on the pommels of his blades; a curving Dothraki arakh on his left hip, a Myrish stiletto on his right.  ( Possible foreshadow)

Tyrion's trial.  Shae speaking the people's reaction.

. "It's true," Shae protested. "My giant of Lannister." The laughter swelled twice as loud. Their mouths were twisted in merriment, their bellies shook. Some laughed so hard that snot flew from their nostrils.

 

 

I'll be sure to read it," Jon Snow replied.

 

A line of pale snot ran from Maester Aemon's nose. He wiped it away with the back of his glove. "Knowledge is a weapon, Jon

 

I am sorry my longest post this far has to do with mucus from the nose..lol

All my favorite characters so far have kept their nose's clean, even if a lank of hair has fallen over one eye.

 

THIS IS FOR ARYA'S SONG:

 

 

[evita mgfs]

EDD'S TOILET COMMERCIAL, since Edd is often around feces, urine, and vomit!  This is Daddy Gator whose eyes cannot unlook what he has seen:

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

21 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

MIND BLOWN!  All of your finds are brilliant.

Actually, somewhere in my files I have an essay about repetition in literature in regards to metaphor and motifs.  The author says exactly what you say:  once, blah; twice, head up; three times, THE CHARM!  Martin is doing it deliberately and with a purpose.

I believe - and I have for a long time - that the key to much and more is presented in AGoT through the text AND SUBTEXT.  Astute readers will be able to discern the clues in careful study, but at the same time, the novel is an enjoyable read for others who do not wish to devote time and effort to analyses and tracing the author's motifs and insinuations.

I still have your essays from pages 5 and 6 I am working on.  They will come in time, and I have to catch up with the new posts.  I need to tell Arya's Song about Edd's name - TOILETT/TOILET!

She'll love that - a good pairing for her post on noses and snot!

All I can think of is that commercial with the BOOGER as a spokesperson.

I agree.  I mention this in posts on pages 5 and 6.  I really like the 'hidden message' Cat receives from Lysa at Winterfell.  Is this George telling us to look closer as well?  The message being in a hidden compartment and in a secret language or code if you will seemed like a hint for us readers to look at the previous chapters a little closer.    

[evita mgfs]

Just now, Wizz-The-Smith said:

I agree.  I mention this in posts on pages 5 and 6.  I really like the 'hidden message' Cat receives from Lysa at Winterfell.  Is this George telling us to look closer as well?  The message being in a hidden compartment and in a secret language or code if you will seemed like a hint for us readers to look at the previous chapters a little closer.    

Exactly!  A man/woman must look before he/she can see, and Luwin sure uses that Myrish lens a lot - Bran sees him doing so in his 3EC dream.

And if you read how ML finds the message, he says something like "I saw NO ONE deliver it" - I paraphrase.

I concluded that LF hired a Faceless Man to deliver the message!

[Wizz-The-Smith]

3 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

Exactly!  A man/woman must look before he/she can see, and Luwin sure uses that Myrish lens a lot - Bran sees him doing so in his 3EC dream.

And if you read how ML finds the message, he says something like "I saw NO ONE deliver it" - I paraphrase.

I concluded that LF hired a Faceless Man to deliver the message!

Hmmm, a Faceless Man.  Perhaps so.    That would be cool.

Either way the 'hidden' message is potentially telling us readers to look closely at the text.  And after all I had found in the previous chapters, this idea resonated with me.    

[Tijgy]

Like I said, I wanted to reply to some other

@evita mgfs - Link to Post

How Bran May Display his Growing Powers in “A Ghost in Winterfell”

(...)

I really loved this idea. It is kind of dark but it is also very interesting. And it also looks to fit somehow.

I do have some little remarks/additions: 

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Bran’s handicap and Robb’s death cancel out Bran’s role as his older brother’s  bannerman, and  Bran’s dream of knighthood  finally fizzles out when Lord Brynden confesses that he does not possess the magic to restore Bran’s legs.  The revision of Ned’s advice addresses what may be Bran’s duties and responsibilities as a greenseer.  For instance, a greenseer may be called upon to dictate a judgment that best serves offenders’ crimes, those that violate the sacred laws that the old gods hold dear.  If this is indeed the case, then Bran seemingly fulfills his obligations, exposing his far reaching powers in the “A Ghost in Winterfell” narrative from A Dance with Dragons.  Martin may silence Bran’s “narrative” voice, but the author replaces Bran’s POVs with his presence, which manifests in ways that are observable to Reek/Theon, the character who honestly reports his personal perspective on the events that transpire in the narrative prose.

I think I already alluded it to one of my replies in the Bran Reread Thread but IMO GRRM is paralleling Bran's journey to become a greenseer to Plato's journey to become a philosopher (the allegory of the cave). According to Plato is the philosopher the most appropriate ruler because he is able to only one to see the Idea of Good and his virtue is wisdom. Because Bran as a greenseer would be the one who knows all those truths long forgotten, he would actually be seen as the most appropriate ruler. 

So it is interesting to see another example to see Bran fulfill his obligations according to Ned as a greenseer/ruler.

 

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 “A Ghost in Winterfell” and “a Stark in Winterfell” are epithets that define Bran who is metaphorically one with Winterfell.  Maester Luwin likens Winterfell to a tree, linking the ancient weirwood to the aged castle:

 

I think you might have forget an important quote which links Bran directly to Winterfell (and the last words of ACOK): 

"At the edge of the wolfswood, Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse of the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell's chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either."

Already in my analyses I mention several times Bran is acting there as the protector of Winterfell. I believe you mentioned it but in Bran I ACOK he actually is taking already the place of the Old Gods/Old Starks when he yells at Rickon the Freys should not be allowed in the crypts because they are not Starks. In Bran II ACOK is Bran placed as the Stark in Winterfell in “his father’s high stone seat with direwolves carved into the arms” which is a similar position as those old Starks. IIRC he is placed many times in his father’s seat. He sits also later in his father’s oak chair during the meetings with the Northern Lords. 

During the harvest feast (Bran III, ACOK) Bran enters the hall of Winterfell on a horse draped in Stark colors at the hall of Winterfell. He is acting here as Stark in Winterfell and everyone in the hall hail him as the Stark in Winterfell. It think this is actually one of the most symbolic moments in the books where a ruler/prince is seen by his people as an embodiment of their kingdom.  

Personally I believe the harvest feast can be seen as a foreshadowing of what I call the Northern Civil War (you know Boltons vs. Stannis): 

“On the dais, Lord Wyman attacked a steaming plate of lampreys as if they were an enemy host. He was so fat that Ser Rodrik had commanded that a special wide chair be built for him to sit in, but he laughed loud and often, and Bran thought he liked him. Poor wan Lady Hornwood sat beside him, her face a stony mask as she picked listlessly at her food. At the opposite end of the high table, Hother and Mors were playing a drinking game, slamming their horns together as hard as knights meeting in joust.

It is too hot here, and too noisy, and they are all getting drunk. Bran itched under his grey and white woolens, and suddenly he wished he were anywhere but here. It is cool in the godswood now. Steam is rising off the hot pools, and the red leaves of the weirwood are rustling.The smells are richer than here, and before long the moon will rise and my brother will sing to it.”

You have Lord Wyman attacking an enemy host, poor Lady Hornwood, Hother and Mors fighting, ... And you have very interestingly Bran who is but is not really at the feast. Bran sit of course on the seat of the Starks and is the Stark of Winterfell. So this might foreshadowing the possible role Bran plays as Ghost of Winterfell?  

In the chapter you have also Bran remembering all the death of his house. This part of the chapter resembles Theon's, Jon's, ... nightmares. However unlike in their nightmares, Bran doesn't see any old Stark Kings. Bran himself is actually the representative of them at the Feast who sits on the throne with a Direwolf beside him. (He was old enough to know that it was not truly him they shouted for—it was the harvest they cheered, it was Robb and his victories, it was his lord father and his grandfather and all the Starks going back eight thousand year - He was the Stark in Winterfell, his father's son and his brother's heir, and almost a man grown). Here already he takes the place of the Dead Starks/Ghosts? as protector of Winterfell

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Whatever magic forces are alive in Winterfell, they appear to answer what others recklessly say aloud by turning their words against their own northern retainers.

Reek marvels at Lady Dustin’s “folly”, fearing that the snows may bury them as easily as Stannis and his army.  Reek thinks to himself:  “Lady Barbrey was of the north and should have known better. The old gods might be listening”.

Those Northern Lords. Maybe they should just be silent. Or do they know the Old Gods might listen to what they say?

@ravenous reader - Link to Post

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the latter who momentarily budged/'balked' at that bridge, mournfully howling at that fatal threshold to no avail...in the end, the direwolf's words were indeed so much grey wind, wasted as his communication was on his dazzled and deaf human counterpart; unlike Jon who heeds and is in tune with his direwolf, Rob is, at this point, lost...)

I completely agree with the fact Robb was lost at that moment. Or more actually, he was denying "his wolf side" because he lost faith in the direwolves as result of the fact Summer and Shaggy were "not able to protect" Bran and Rickon (or so Robb believed). And he was also afraid of the rumors about the fact he is a warg, ... And poor Grey Wind was ignored at that moment. 

However Jon doesn't also always listen to Ghost. Did he not believe Ghost was "acting out" because of a stupid boar, when Jon was killed? 

Start to listen your wolves, Starks!!! (Bran does. Or at least here: "Jon said you all had wolves." Sam pulled off a glove. "I know Ghost." He held out a shaky hand, the fingers white and soft and fat as little sausages. Summer padded closer, sniffed them, and gave the hand a lick.  That was when Bran made up his mind. "We'll go with you." ASOS, Bran IV

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Finally, a note on the mummer’s farce (…)

Nice. It is also interesting if you look this in connection with Wyman saying that the mummers’ farce is almost done. The whole Frey and Bolton mummer farce’s started already before the Red Wedding. Wyman and some other Northern Lords actually also entered the stage ("When treating with liars, even an honest man must lie"; "The rancor I showed you in the Merman's Court was a mummer's farce put on to please our friends of Frey.").

The Freys are still acting with their whole tale about Robb turning into a wolf. But hopefully this farce of them will end in the future: “the mummer's farce is almost done.” Wyman did take already some steps of the “stage” when he said it was a blessing Little Walder died because he would have grown up to be a Frey (or rather Wyman tended to set the whole stage on fire).

@evita mgfs

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Door and Window Symbology in Martin’s Novels

In Gerard Beirne’s “Dear Deadbeat – A Literary Agony Column”, he addresses a “window” as a symbol in a literary work, yet what he says can apply to any symbol a writer employs:

“But what of the literary significance of the 'window'? Of course it acts as a metaphor. Remember if mentioned once the 'window' is an image, if mentioned more than once, it becomes a symbol.

So metaphor and symbolism. So much depends on the intent of the particular story. Windows provide a glimpse out into another world or a glimpse in. They separate with fragility one world from another. On a higher level they may separate chronos from kairos.

“If someone looks through a window, that person will only receive a narrow view of the outside world. That view will only go as far as the person can see out the window. Everything to the left and right or above and below the window will be out of view”:

• Also, there is a separation between the viewer and the outside world. The window has glass so the person is left as a spectator, not as someone who actually has any kind of involvement with the world.
• People who look through windows in books are showing that they have a narrow view, and are standoffish. These people will watch the world go by from their window, but not do anything about it.
• People who are scared to look out the window are people that do not want to know what is going on in the world around them. Even though they are still protected by the glass, they are still worried that the world will be too shocking to behold.
• Sometimes, these people will open the window just to holler out. These are the ones that believe that they have a say in the world that they are not truly a part of.

Just a little question; Several times Bran is looking out of his window from his tower when he is Winterfell. And you actually say the eyes of the trees are also windows. I am not really sure but in the end this symbolism for windows doesn't work for Bran? Because I actually see him as seeing through the window and through the eyes of the tree as seeing more broader than everyone else? And I am not really sure Bran does have a narrow view? Bran himself tries to uncover the truth for himself several times by asking to several people asking questions. I do agree in the beginning he is only a spectator. During meetings with Northern Lords he is actually meant to be just a spectator but there are instances where Bran takes by himself more a participating role? 

(Probably I am just thinking too much about this)

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I wanted to take a moment to reaffirm my earlier post about Jaime telling Bran:  "Take my hand!"

The old gods ARE LISTENING, INDEED!

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“The Singers of the Song of Earth”

I loved this read!

@Meera of Tarth

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Why do you think BR visited Ned in a dream? I mean, can be, but why would BR do it? Because he is watching everyone? But should not him be neutral? I know and we know Ned was a good man but there are many other people in Westeros that don't have warning dreams. Does BR favour the Starks?

1° It is all part of his evil plan?

2° Starks are praying to the old gods? Ned is actually quite religious, no? So maybe Bloodraven feels Ned is a friend, because Ned visited him several times in the past? 

3° If BR does intend really to fight against the Others, it would be better if Ned as grown-up is Lord Stark. I personally believe the Old Gods visited also Lord Mormont in his dreams: 

You must make them(the king, Jaime and Tywin) understand. I tell you, my lord, the darkness is coming. There are wild things in the woods, direwolves and mammoths and snow bears the size of aurochs, and I have seen darker shapes in my dreams."

@The Fattest Leech

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Thank you. I know it probably sounds really weird to some who may read what I found... but it works.

The secret is way out of the bag that both religion and personal boyhood influences are all drawn together to create ASOIAF which is why is resonates so well with people even after its first 20 some years.

I love the Pinocchio Idea! (Because I love fairy tales and Disney )

[evita mgfs]

27 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Like I said, I wanted to reply to some other

@evita mgfs - Link to Post

How Bran May Display his Growing Powers in “A Ghost in Winterfell”

(...)

I really loved this idea. It is kind of dark but it is also very interesting. And it also looks to fit somehow.

I do have some little remarks/additions: 

I think I already alluded it to one of my replies in the Bran Reread Thread but IMO GRRM is paralleling Bran's journey to become a greenseer to Plato's journey to become a philosopher (the allegory of the cave). According to Plato is the philosopher the most appropriate ruler because he is able to only one to see the Idea of Good and his virtue is wisdom. Because Bran as a greenseer would be the one who knows all those truths long forgotten, he would actually be seen as the most appropriate ruler. 

So it is interesting to see another example to see Bran fulfill his obligations according to Ned as a greenseer/ruler.

 

I think you might have forget an important quote which links Bran directly to Winterfell (and the last words of ACOK): 

"At the edge of the wolfswood, Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse of the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell's chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either."

Already in my analyses I mention several times Bran is acting there as the protector of Winterfell. I believe you mentioned it but in Bran I ACOK he actually is taking already the place of the Old Gods/Old Starks when he yells at Rickon the Freys should not be allowed in the crypts because they are not Starks. In Bran II ACOK is Bran placed as the Stark in Winterfell in “his father’s high stone seat with direwolves carved into the arms” which is a similar position as those old Starks. IIRC he is placed many times in his father’s seat. He sits also later in his father’s oak chair during the meetings with the Northern Lords. 

During the harvest feast (Bran III, ACOK) Bran enters the hall of Winterfell on a horse draped in Stark colors at the hall of Winterfell. He is acting here as Stark in Winterfell and everyone in the hall hail him as the Stark in Winterfell. It think this is actually one of the most symbolic moments in the books where a ruler/prince is seen by his people as an embodiment of their kingdom.  

Personally I believe the harvest feast can be seen as a foreshadowing of what I call the Northern Civil War (you know Boltons vs. Stannis): 

“On the dais, Lord Wyman attacked a steaming plate of lampreys as if they were an enemy host. He was so fat that Ser Rodrik had commanded that a special wide chair be built for him to sit in, but he laughed loud and often, and Bran thought he liked him. Poor wan Lady Hornwood sat beside him, her face a stony mask as she picked listlessly at her food. At the opposite end of the high table, Hother and Mors were playing a drinking game, slamming their horns together as hard as knights meeting in joust.

It is too hot here, and too noisy, and they are all getting drunk. Bran itched under his grey and white woolens, and suddenly he wished he were anywhere but here. It is cool in the godswood now. Steam is rising off the hot pools, and the red leaves of the weirwood are rustling.The smells are richer than here, and before long the moon will rise and my brother will sing to it.”

You have Lord Wyman attacking an enemy host, poor Lady Hornwood, Hother and Mors fighting, ... And you have very interestingly Bran who is but is not really at the feast. Bran sit of course on the seat of the Starks and is the Stark of Winterfell. So this might foreshadowing the possible role Bran plays as Ghost of Winterfell?  

In the chapter you have also Bran remembering all the death of his house. This part of the chapter resembles Theon's, Jon's, ... nightmares. However unlike in their nightmares, Bran doesn't see any old Stark Kings. Bran himself is actually the representative of them at the Feast who sits on the throne with a Direwolf beside him. (He was old enough to know that it was not truly him they shouted for—it was the harvest they cheered, it was Robb and his victories, it was his lord father and his grandfather and all the Starks going back eight thousand year - He was the Stark in Winterfell, his father's son and his brother's heir, and almost a man grown). Here already he takes the place of the Dead Starks/Ghosts? as protector of Winterfell

Those Northern Lords. Maybe they should just be silent. Or do they know the Old Gods might listen to what they say?

@ravenous reader - Link to Post

I completely agree with the fact Robb was lost at that moment. Or more actually, he was denying "his wolf side" because he lost faith in the direwolves as result of the fact Summer and Shaggy were "not able to protect" Bran and Rickon (or so Robb believed). And he was also afraid of the rumors about the fact he is a warg, ... And poor Grey Wind was ignored at that moment. 

However Jon doesn't also always listen to Ghost. Did he not believe Ghost was "acting out" because of a stupid boar, when Jon was killed? 

Start to listen your wolves, Starks!!! (Bran does. Or at least here: "Jon said you all had wolves." Sam pulled off a glove. "I know Ghost." He held out a shaky hand, the fingers white and soft and fat as little sausages. Summer padded closer, sniffed them, and gave the hand a lick.  That was when Bran made up his mind. "We'll go with you." ASOS, Bran IV

Nice. It is also interesting if you look this in connection with Wyman saying that the mummers’ farce is almost done. The whole Frey and Bolton mummer farce’s started already before the Red Wedding. Wyman and some other Northern Lords actually also entered the stage ("When treating with liars, even an honest man must lie"; "The rancor I showed you in the Merman's Court was a mummer's farce put on to please our friends of Frey.").

The Freys are still acting with their whole tale about Robb turning into a wolf. But hopefully this farce of them will end in the future: “the mummer's farce is almost done.” Wyman did take already some steps of the “stage” when he said it was a blessing Little Walder died because he would have grown up to be a Frey (or rather Wyman tended to set the whole stage on fire).

@evita mgfs

Just a little question; Several times Bran is looking out of his window from his tower when he is Winterfell. And you actually say the eyes of the trees are also windows. I am not really sure but in the end this symbolism for windows doesn't work for Bran? Because I actually see him as seeing through the window and through the eyes of the tree as seeing more broader than everyone else? And I am not really sure Bran does have a narrow view? Bran himself tries to uncover the truth for himself several times by asking to several people asking questions. I do agree in the beginning he is only a spectator. During meetings with Northern Lords he is actually meant to be just a spectator but there are instances where Bran takes by himself more a participating role? 

(Probably I am just thinking too much about this)

I loved this read!

@Meera of Tarth

1° It is all part of his evil plan?

2° Starks are praying to the old gods? Ned is actually quite religious, no? So maybe Bloodraven feels Ned is a friend, because Ned visited him several times in the past? 

3° If BR does intend really to fight against the Others, it would be better if Ned as grown-up is Lord Stark. I personally believe the Old Gods visited also Lord Mormont in his dreams: 

You must make them(the king, Jaime and Tywin) understand. I tell you, my lord, the darkness is coming. There are wild things in the woods, direwolves and mammoths and snow bears the size of aurochs, and I have seen darker shapes in my dreams."

@The Fattest Leech

I love the Pinocchio Idea! (Because I love fairy tales and Disney )

THANKS FOR YOUR NICE WORDS AND EXCELLENT, THOUGHTFUL ANALYSIS!

 

ON POINT!  AWESOME EVIDENCES!

 

Regarding the window motif, Bran’s vision is far reaching.  The window symbology I cited is rather sophomoric.  I used it for its simplicity at the time.  The symbology of windows can be complex, and as a character grows, his sight improves in a metaphoric sense [unlike my eyesight].

 

Originally, I employed the scholarship to argue the narrow view of Sansa who scoffs at Arya’s love of windows.  Posting in the general forum, the Sansa lovers come down hard on posters who say one little bitsy thing against Sansa – that is why I quoted that particular essay.

 

Bran moves from windows to animals to trees to mist and fog and beyond.

 

I love the quote you provided that I missed – WOW!

 

 

I think you might have forget an important quote which links Bran directly to Winterfell (and the last words of ACOK): 

"At the edge of the wolfswood, Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse of the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell's chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either."

 

 

I am furiously working on how the Boltons violate the laws of hospitality, taking Winterfell WHILE THERE IS A STARK PRESENT IN WINTERFELL AS AN UNWELCOMING HOST!

 

Your quote definitely assists my argument that Bran actually never leaves, at least metaphorically.

 

I do plan to bring your wonderful cave analysis forward with commentary; however, I am behind in composing reactions to past essays that are worthy of a second look and discussion.  So I will eventually cover everyone's but I am a slow writer who tends to think and overthink things through - then composing the thoughts and locating the evidences take a painfully long time for me.

It's a coming.  It's a coming.  It's a coming!

[evita mgfs]

On 12/29/2015 at 5:59 PM, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hey Meera and thanks!   It’s exciting, and without going too mad, we get this in the next chapter. 

Bran I.

A faint wind blew through the holdfast gate.  Over their heads flapped the banner of the Starks of Winterfell : a grey Direwolf racing across an ice-white field.

Bran’s father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind.

The wind used the gate, how very civil of it.  And then blew around/showed an interest in Ned.  If, as I suspect BR was present in the prologue then it would make sense he would follow this up and want to know the outcome.  Plus he’s in some important company I suppose.  He has been watching Bran for ages anyway.  The wind dies after this, but we get another possible option with the Direwolf pup, when discussing killing them………..

‘’The sooner the better.’’ Theon Greyjoy agreed.  He drew his sword. ‘’Give the beast here, Bran.’’

The little thing squirmed against him, as if it heard and understood. ‘’No!’’ Bran cried out fiercely.  ‘’It’s mine.’’

As if it heard and understood. Hmmm, this sounds like a possible presence?  And then the fact Jon seemed to hear Ghost when no one else did?  'The wind was rustling the trees' when this happened, this maybe nothing but worth noting.  Or maybe he’s tapping into their ‘magic’ already, and that’s why he could hear the call?  Bran thinks later that it’s odd Jon’s pup ‘’has opened its eyes already.’’  Speculative, but all worth considering for sure.

BTW, the next chapter, Catelyn I, happens in front of the Winterfell Heart Tree.  So BR was surely present there as well.  Bran is going to learn all these tricks of the trade, in fact I think he's already nailing most of them.  Close attention needed to the text, but the possibilities are vast!  

WIZZ-THE-SMITH:  Another awesome contribution.

I LOVE your remark about the civility of the wind as it blows through the holdfast gate.  Sometimes elemental forces are more polite and well-mannered than Martin’s characters.

You really covered everything, but I will address a few observations that note the continuation of the blood motif Martin initiates in the Prologue.

Blood / Summerwine

The spilling of blood accompanies Lord Eddard Stark’s first appearance in the novel A Game of Thrones as  he assumes the roles of Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, and executioner:  he administers the King’s justice by wielding his Valyrian steel greatsword Ice to decapitate a deserter from the Night’s Watch.  Martin employs a simile to compare the vibrant color of “summerwine” to the blood spatter resulting from Stark’s stroke of his blade:

 “Blood sprayed out across the snow, as red as summerwine” (15).

The vibrant red contrasts sharply against the white “snow”.  The blood symbolizes death, and the snow symbolizes winter [the Starks, the bastard, and the north]; hence, “winter” will bring death, or the Starks, Jon Snow, and the north will deliver death to their enemies.  

Furthermore, Martin chooses to link blood with “summerwine” through figurative language. Martin distinguishes “summerwine” from ordinary “wine”, a particular detail in Jon’s first POV in AGoT: at the feast held in honor of King Robert’s visit to Winterfell, the Stark host serves summerwine to the royal guests. The Stark family imbibes too, with Ned allowing his children a glass to commemorate the event:  “In honor of the occasion, his lord father would doubtless permit each child a glassful of wine, but no more” (49-50).  Benjen identifies the wine when he speaks to Jon:  “Summerwine . .  . Nothing so sweet” (52).  ”.   Since “blood” can be transposed with “summerwine”, it foreshadows what may come. 

However, Martin comparing blood to summerwine evokes the Catholic Mass, notably the Transubstantiation of Christ, a highly complex symbology involving  the Holy Eucharist. The communion wafer symbolically becomes the “body” of Christ, and the wine symbolically becomes the “blood” of Christ.  During Communion, churchgoers approach the altar for the purpose of eating the wafer, or “host”, “the body of Christ” and sipping the wine from a chalice, “The blood of Christ”.  The Catholic sacrament of the Holy Eucharist may be the source of blood and wine being paired together with symbolic intent in classic literature.

 If we trace Martin’s language choice(s), the Starks collectively, and Ned specifically as the lord and host, are responsible for offering the beverage [summerwine/blood] to the Baratheons and Lannisters; consequently, the Starks “eventually” [in subsequent novels] will serve  “blood” to their enemies, with the blood symbology suggesting “revenge” and “death”.  Moreover, the “summerwine” and “blood” allude to the Starks themselves “symbolically” tasting blood, maybe through their direwolves or through the roots of a the weirwood  In ADwD, Bran “tastes” blood absorbed through the roots of the Winterfell weirwood after a white haired woman spills the blood of a “human sacrifice”. 

Does this intimate a way to awaken the collective spirits of the Starks [and others] in the weirwood?    Through personification, Martin humanizes the weirwood and its immediate area:  As Lady Catelyn steps upon the deep humus covering the godswood floor, the sound of her footsteps is “swallowed” up by a buffer:   “A thousand years of humus lay thick upon the godswood floor, swallowing the sound of her feet . . .” (AGoT, Catelyn’s POV #1).   “Swallow” is a word associated with eating or drinking as well as the mouth, teeth, breath, and lips.  In this instance, Martin personifies the godswood floor by attributing to it the ability to swallow. If the floor “swallows” sound, it can swallow blood as well to feed the roots buried deep within the earth.

A Few Observations

“It seemed colder on the long ride back to Winterfell, though the wind had died by then and the sun was higher in the sky”.

·       Martin puns sun/son.

·       The increasing cold and the dying wind intimate the discovery of death.  However, the sun rising high in the sky is a boon for the SONS of Eddard Stark who will be blessed with gifts from the old gods.

 “Beyond a doubt,” his lord father said. “Come, let us see what mischief my sons have rooted out now.”

·       Martin’s verb choice “rooted” is key, although Ned speaks with unconscious irony.  The direwolf pups are gifts from the old gods who are associated with the heart trees that are rooted to the earth.

“Greyjoy was laughing and joking as he rode. Bran heard the breath go out of him. “Gods!” he exclaimed, struggling to keep control of his horse as he reached for his sword”.

“A freak,” Greyjoy said. “Look at the size of it.”

·       Theon saying “gods” upon seeing the dead female direwolf I significant as it marks the pups as gifts from the old gods.

·       That Theon calls the direwolf a “freak” is ironic and telling as Theon will become “Reek” whom is referred to as a “freak”.  He needs to remember what we already know:  “words are wind” and the old gods are watching and listening.

“He [Bran] would have spurred the pony faster, but his father made them dismount beside the bridge and approach on foot. Bran jumped off and ran”.

“Bran’s heart was thumping in his chest as he pushed through a waist-high drift to his brothers’ side”.

·       Bran jumps and runs, only to push through waist high snow drifts.  This may be a hint of Bran’s fate since his fall will cripple him, and he will no longer be able to jump and run.  The impeding snow drift is a metaphor for Bran’s handicap.

MY WONDERFUL WIZZ-THE SMITH:  ANOTHER GREAT CONTRIBUTION.  It is becoming more and more challenging for me to find worthy insights to equal those that you are discovering.  GREAT JOB!

On 12/30/2015 at 9:43 PM, LongRider said:

Hey Wizz and Meera.  Great posts Wizz.   Your posts made me want to see if there were mentions of wind in Bran's vision where he learns to fly.  Interestingly, they were only two and both brief.  Here is the set up, the first one is when Bran is looking at Winterfell from above, and the last thing he looks at is

 How great is that?  A chill wind, a look knowing look from WF's weirwood tree?  I think this is the first example of a weirwood tree being sentient rather than just seeming spookily sentient.

And later

The tone concerning the wind changes when Bran begins to fly.  The wind is not associated with being chilly or other negatives.  It fills and pulls him upward and away from death and destruction. 

 LONGRIDER: EXCELLENT OBSERVATION! 

When I reread AGoT, Martin’s prose teems with easily missed details that “shout” upon another glance.  Some POVs in the novels I have read at least fifteen times, and I am always amazed by what I can find after revisiting them even when I think I have studied them thoroughly.

It is the same when I read a writer’s response – one time through is not enough to pick up on what many scholars have to say – especially in this thread.  I am embarrassed by what I have missed in a writer’s reply or contributing essay, and because of this, I am bringing earlier written responses forward, for myself, but I hope others reading our work appreciates the opportunity to give our extensive analyses a second read.

I wish to add a few tidbits I noticed while rereading the opening POVs of AGoT:

 

Martin means for his readers to see a connection between the stone statues of the dead Starks and their “blind eyes”, which can be LINKED symbolically and literally with the heart tree in WF, which we met in Cat’s narrative POV.  For example, Cat observes the weirwood: “the heart tree, the pale bark and red eyes, watching, listening, thinking its slow thoughts” (25).  Similarly, Ned thinks the stone statues in the Winterfell crypts are “watching” and “listening”.

“The Lords of Winterfell watched them pass.  Their likenesses were carved into the stone  . . .” (42) echoes Cat’s POV:  “a face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful” (23).

The description of Lord Rickard echoes the above description of the heart tree as well:  Lord Rickard, Ned’s dad, had a long, stern face” (43).

[evita mgfs]

Intimations of Fire and Water Magic in Bran’s Cave

From his Last POV in ADwD

Martin suggests that Bran may have more sources of magic at his disposal when he returns to his “snug alcove” in the rock “cold and empty” [459].

Covered with furs, Bran watches “the flames” and “He did not remember closing his eyes” [459].

Is it possible that Bran does not remember closing his eyes because he does not do so?  If this is the case, then in a way similar to Melisandre, Bran evokes visions through the flames that transport him through the trees to Winterfell’s godswood.

“. . . but then SOMEHOW he [Bran] was back in Winterfell AGAIN” [459].

Martin writes with meticulous meanness and his wording is strategic:  SOMEHOW Bran returns AGAIN via another course of magic to Winterfell’s godswood WITHOUT the following courses of action:

Without sitting on his weirwood throne,

Without listening to his corpse lord’s guidance,

Without following the established protocol,

Without ingesting additional weirwood paste,

Without befriending the darkness [but in the illumination of firelight],

Without closing his eyes,

And without slipping his skin like he does with Summer to become married with the tree.

Instead, while gazing into the fire, Bran finds himself back in Winterfell, inside the heart tree, and looking down upon his father who is engaged in prayer.  A younger Eddard Stark asks the old gods for spiritual guidance.

“Father, it’s me.  It’s Bran.  Brandon”.

“Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak” [459].

Furthermore, Martin describes Bran’s voice as “a whisper in the wind” that rustles the leaves, thereby confirming in his prose narrative that Bran indeed manipulates the wind to rustle the leaves in the trees.  Additionally, by doing this, Bran succeeds in getting his father’s attention from some point in the future while Bran watches past events unfold.

What is compelling is that Bran’s conduit for reaching Winterfell is the fire, another venue for his magic that suggests his versatility as a greenseer.  While watching the flames, Bran embodies the weirwood.

Additionally, Martin insinuates that water magic plays a part in Bran’s vision quest.

In the appellation WEIRwood is the word weir:

A weir is a dam built across a river to regulate the flow of water, divert it, or change its level [[Encarta Dictionary].

Not only does the purpose of a weir bring to mind the Children and their reported part in the Hammer mythology – as a weir “regulates the flow of water – diverting and changing its level”, but in Martin’s description of Bran’s visionary experiences, the author employs language indicative of water.

Bran sheds tears, then “The rest of his father’s words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood.  Eddard Stark dissolved like a mist in the morning sun”.

·       Tears, drowning, and the mist are words associated with water.

·       Martin may be punning “morning SUN/SON, as it is Bran, son of Ned, who is the visionary.

·       The sun is made of fire, and Bran’s vision is prompted by the fire Hodor lights in his alcove.

“Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting and hollering at one another as they dueled with BROKEN BRANCHES”.

·       Martin’s clever use of words, such as “weir wood”, he describes the BROKEN BRANches used for swords.

·       Bran refers to himself as “Broken”, hence “Broken Bran”.

“She slashed the boy across his high, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout” [460].

·       That brilliant George RR Martin:  who recalls the wildlings in the wolfswoods and Bran’s thigh being cut by one of them?

·       It may mean something or it may mean nothing – in the Bran POV from AGoT, water is involved as well.

·       The boy splashing and shouting who falls into the pool may be a “metaphor” for Bran, and his sister Arya needs to extend her hand to help her brother – maybe even free him from the Cave of Skulls, pulling him free from the roots of trees that cradle him like a baby. [Merely speculation].

“You be quiet, stupid”, the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. “It’s just water.  Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell father?”  “She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, and before she got him out, the two of them were gone” [460].

·       The girl who looks like Arya says, “It’s just water.”  Martin strongly implies that Arya has a strong affinity to water.

·       In this way, Arya, by using the force of water, will help her brother Bran in his future endeavors.  However, Arya needs Bran to guide her in the discovery of this unique gift; that is, unless the Faceless Men have done their homework because it sure seems providential that Arya is in Braavos, surrounded by water, and Arya is ascertaining her own powers as she progresses in her studies with the kindly man. It seems that her absorption of knowledge is awakening her warg and skinchanging gifts.

“After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling dizzy.  He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a who would avenge her” [460].

·       Birth and vengeance does Martin suggest with a pregnant women emerging from water that might indeed have magical properties.  The water and the old gods may grant her the son she prays for.

·       Moreover, Martin moves from Arya to the “pregnant woman” – perhaps another portent for Arya’s future?  Maybe Arya will be the vessel to represent the immaculate conception so much a part of Catholic doctrine.

“And now the lords bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail.  Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they t were gone before he could put a name to them” [460].

·       Martin has made mention of Arya several times thus far, and now Martin’s descriptive language evocates Arya and her present role as a faceless assassin.

·       The lords are costumed in fur and mail, and “SOME WORE FACES” – methinks the author is alluding to the Faceless Men of Braavos by employing strategic language.

·       Furthermore, the stern men disappear “before he [Bran] could put a name to them”.

·       Arya trains as no one who must deny her own name to wear faces of others in her position if acolyte serving Him-of-Many-Faces.

·       The wording is too pat, too marked, too deliberate to be a mere coincidence.  Martin wants readers to connect Arya with Bran, with water, and with identity.

·       Martin’s metaphoric implementations import much and more.  The language is as deep as the roots of trees, weighing heavily with symbolic meanings.

“Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before he heart tree.  A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand” [460].

·       Another water-driven word – “drift” – “to be carried along by the flow of water or air” [Encarta Dictionary] – applies double possibilities that confuse the force moving the leaves as either the water or the air; regardless, the air and water are elementals that Bran and his sister Arya are innately connected to through their genetic disposition.

·       The red leaves drifting is in preparation for “the red tide” of flowing blood next.

“The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat.  And through the mists of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth . . . but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood” [460].

·       The “tide” is the rise and fall of the ocean: “the cyclic rise and fall of the ocean or another body of water produced by the attraction of the Moon and Sun, occurring about every twelve hours” [Encarta Dictionary].

·       Martin bonds the movement of water with the movement of blood.

Upon discovering these clues to fire and water magic in a passage I have read at lease fifty times was exciting.

I cannot wait to hear the reactions of my fellow PACK mates!

[Meera of Tarth]

I posted a response in the sister thread. I'll copy+paste it here:

[Meera of Tarth]

Quote

 In this way, Arya, by using the force of water, will help her brother Bran in his future endeavors.  However, Arya needs Bran to guide her in the discovery of this unique gift; that is, unless the Faceless Men have done their homework because it sure seems providential that Arya is in Braavos, surrounded by water, and Arya is ascertaining her own powers as she progresses in her studies with the kindly man. It seems that her absorption of knowledge is awakening her warg and skinchanging gifts.

That would be perfect.

 

Quote

What is compelling is that Bran’s conduit for reaching Winterfell is the fire, another venue for his magic that suggests his versatility as a greenseer.  While watching the flames, Bran embodies the weirwood.

Great point. I've read the chapter many times and never thought about this. So his versatility could involve the magic of fire too? Because we know there's the magic of fire, the magic of the Other (The WW'S=ice) and the ones of the Old Gods: Greenseers and the Children.

I am a bit confused about the different types of magics so forgive me if I'm wrong. I wonder if Dragon's magic could be a particular case of fire magic too.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

21 hours ago, evita mgfs said:

Intimations of Fire and Water Magic in Bran’s Cave

 

From his Last POV in ADwD

 

Martin suggests that Bran may have more sources of magic at his disposal when he returns to his “snug alcove” in the rock “cold and empty” [459].

 

Covered with furs, Bran watches “the flames” and “He did not remember closing his eyes” [459].

 

Is it possible that Bran does not remember closing his eyes because he does not do so?  If this is the case, then in a way similar to Melisandre, Bran evokes visions through the flames that transport him through the trees to Winterfell’s godswood.

 

“. . . but then SOMEHOW he [Bran] was back in Winterfell AGAIN” [459].

 

Martin writes with meticulous meanness and his wording is strategic:  SOMEHOW Bran returns AGAIN via another course of magic to Winterfell’s godswood WITHOUT the following courses of action:

 

Without sitting on his weirwood throne,

 

Without listening to his corpse lord’s guidance,

 

Without following the established protocol,

 

Without ingesting additional weirwood paste,

 

Without befriending the darkness [but in the illumination of firelight],

 

Without closing his eyes,

 

And without slipping his skin like he does with Summer to become married with the tree.

 

Instead, while gazing into the fire, Bran finds himself back in Winterfell, inside the heart tree, and looking down upon his father who is engaged in prayer.  A younger Eddard Stark asks the old gods for spiritual guidance.

 

“Father, it’s me.  It’s Bran.  Brandon”.

 

“Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak” [459].

 

Furthermore, Martin describes Bran’s voice as “a whisper in the wind” that rustles the leaves, thereby confirming in his prose narrative that Bran indeed manipulates the wind to rustle the leaves in the trees.  Additionally, by doing this, Bran succeeds in getting his father’s attention from some point in the future while Bran watches past events unfold.

 

What is compelling is that Bran’s conduit for reaching Winterfell is the fire, another venue for his magic that suggests his versatility as a greenseer.  While watching the flames, Bran embodies the weirwood.

 

Additionally, Martin insinuates that water magic plays a part in Bran’s vision quest.

 

In the appellation WEIRwood is the word weir:

 

A weir is a dam built across a river to regulate the flow of water, divert it, or change its level [[Encarta Dictionary].

 

Not only does the purpose of a weir bring to mind the Children and their reported part in the Hammer mythology – as a weir “regulates the flow of water – diverting and changing its level”, but in Martin’s description of Bran’s visionary experiences, the author employs language indicative of water.

 

Bran sheds tears, then “The rest of his father’s words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood.  Eddard Stark dissolved like a mist in the morning sun”.

 

·       Tears, drowning, and the mist are words associated with water.

 

·       Martin may be punning “morning SUN/SON, as it is Bran, son of Ned, who is the visionary.

 

·       The sun is made of fire, and Bran’s vision is prompted by the fire Hodor lights in his alcove.

 

“Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting and hollering at one another as they dueled with BROKEN BRANCHES”.

 

·       Martin’s clever use of words, such as “weir wood”, he describes the BROKEN BRANches used for swords.

 

·       Bran refers to himself as “Broken”, hence “Broken Bran”.

 

“She slashed the boy across his high, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout” [460].

 

·       That brilliant George RR Martin:  who recalls the wildlings in the wolfswoods and Bran’s thigh being cut by one of them?

 

·       It may mean something or it may mean nothing – in the Bran POV from AGoT, water is involved as well.

 

·       The boy splashing and shouting who falls into the pool may be a “metaphor” for Bran, and his sister Arya needs to extend her hand to help her brother – maybe even free him from the Cave of Skulls, pulling him free from the roots of trees that cradle him like a baby. [Merely speculation].

 

“You be quiet, stupid”, the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. “It’s just water.  Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell father?”  “She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, and before she got him out, the two of them were gone” [460].

 

·       The girl who looks like Arya says, “It’s just water.”  Martin strongly implies that Arya has a strong affinity to water.

 

·       In this way, Arya, by using the force of water, will help her brother Bran in his future endeavors.  However, Arya needs Bran to guide her in the discovery of this unique gift; that is, unless the Faceless Men have done their homework because it sure seems providential that Arya is in Braavos, surrounded by water, and Arya is ascertaining her own powers as she progresses in her studies with the kindly man. It seems that her absorption of knowledge is awakening her warg and skinchanging gifts.

 

“After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling dizzy.  He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a who would avenge her” [460].

 

·       Birth and vengeance does Martin suggest with a pregnant women emerging from water that might indeed have magical properties.  The water and the old gods may grant her the son she prays for.

 

·       Moreover, Martin moves from Arya to the “pregnant woman” – perhaps another portent for Arya’s future?  Maybe Arya will be the vessel to represent the immaculate conception so much a part of Catholic doctrine.

 

“And now the lords bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail.  Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they t were gone before he could put a name to them” [460].

 

·       Martin has made mention of Arya several times thus far, and now Martin’s descriptive language evocates Arya and her present role as a faceless assassin.

 

·       The lords are costumed in fur and mail, and “SOME WORE FACES” – methinks the author is alluding to the Faceless Men of Braavos by employing strategic language.

 

·       Furthermore, the stern men disappear “before he [Bran] could put a name to them”.

 

·       Arya trains as no one who must deny her own name to wear faces of others in her position if acolyte serving Him-of-Many-Faces.

 

·       The wording is too pat, too marked, too deliberate to be a mere coincidence.  Martin wants readers to connect Arya with Bran, with water, and with identity.

 

·       Martin’s metaphoric implementations import much and more.  The language is as deep as the roots of trees, weighing heavily with symbolic meanings.

 

“Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before he heart tree.  A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand” [460].

 

·       Another water-driven word – “drift” – “to be carried along by the flow of water or air” [Encarta Dictionary] – applies double possibilities that confuse the force moving the leaves as either the water or the air; regardless, the air and water are elementals that Bran and his sister Arya are innately connected to through their genetic disposition.

 

·       The red leaves drifting is in preparation for “the red tide” of flowing blood next.

 

“The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat.  And through the mists of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth . . . but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood” [460].

 

·       The “tide” is the rise and fall of the ocean: “the cyclic rise and fall of the ocean or another body of water produced by the attraction of the Moon and Sun, occurring about every twelve hours” [Encarta Dictionary].

 

·       Martin bonds the movement of water with the movement of blood.

 

Upon discovering these clues to fire and water magic in a passage I have read at lease fifty times was exciting.

 

I cannot wait to hear the reactions of my fellow PACK mates!

 

Hey Evita, another awesome post. 

Nice catch again regards Bran not realising he had closed his eyes before his trip back to Winterfell.  And what you ponder about the flames is very interesting, I keep finding Red god stuff around the old gods/wind text.  I like your thoughts, I was thinking the old gods saw the Red god as a threat and was keeping an eye on things.  But I have not put too much thought into this, there is a lot of fire/Red god stuff in the chapters I'm researching at the moment.  When Sandor has his trial by combat with Beric at High Heart in ASOS.

I love the mention of the rustling leaves animating the voice for the weirwood as Bran becomes 'a whisper on the wind'.    And I totally agree that Ned heard him as well, just perhaps unwilling to believe what he thought was impossible.  Bran will surely use this to greater effect moving forward.

The water magic stuff is great.  There's is more stuff to look out for, the detail in this series is mind blowing.  Your idea on Martin perhaps punning 'morning sun/son' is a good point, I like your take on it.  I have seen this spoken about in other threads when breaking down various passages.  It's still something I overlook, I shall have to put that right.

WEIRwood and BROKEN BRANches are also awesome spots, I love that.  And the parallels to Bran's encounter with the Wildlings while including Arya's affinity to water is very clever.  I'm enjoying some of the word play you're finding for this thread.

I totally agree about the strategic language being used alluding to the Faceless Men and Braavos.  Your 'senses' post was a good example of how that may manifest itself. The subtle nod to the senses and the repeated 'Just so' relating to Syrio Forel etc.  I am spotting these possibilities when re-reading as well.  In fact that's where I see the 'no one' text being used, as I'm sure you do.  I have seen examples in Arya chapters when her cloak is being 'yanked' but when she turns around 'no one' was there.  There are probably loads more. 

Thanks Evita, very cool read.       

[evita mgfs]

7 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hey Evita, another awesome post. 

Nice catch again regards Bran not realising he had closed his eyes before his trip back to Winterfell.  And what you ponder about the flames is very interesting, I keep finding Red god stuff around the old gods/wind text.  I like your thoughts, I was thinking the old gods saw the Red god as a threat and was keeping an eye on things.  But I have not put too much thought into this, there is a lot of fire/Red god stuff in the chapters I'm researching at the moment.  When Sandor has his trial by combat with Beric at High Heart in ASOS.

I love the mention of the rustling leaves animating the voice for the weirwood as Bran becomes 'a whisper on the wind'.    And I totally agree that Ned heard him as well, just perhaps unwilling to believe what he thought was impossible.  Bran will surely use this to greater effect moving forward.

The water magic stuff is great.  There's is more stuff to look out for, the detail in this series is mind blowing.  Your idea on Martin perhaps punning 'morning sun/son' is a good point, I like your take on it.  I have seen this spoken about in other threads when breaking down various passages.  It's still something I overlook, I shall have to put that right.

WEIRwood and BROKEN BRANches are also awesome spots, I love that.  And the parallels to Bran's encounter with the Wildlings while including Arya's affinity to water is very clever.  I'm enjoying some of the word play you're finding for this thread.

I totally agree about the strategic language being used alluding to the Faceless Men and Braavos.  Your 'senses' post was a good example of how that may manifest itself. The subtle nod to the senses and the repeated 'Just so' relating to Syrio Forel etc.  I am spotting these possibilities when re-reading as well.  In fact that's where I see the 'no one' text being used, as I'm sure you do.  I have seen examples in Arya chapters when her cloak is being 'yanked' but when she turns around 'no one' was there.  There are probably loads more. 

Thanks Evita, very cool read.       

FINALLY, MY WIZZ HAS RETURNED!

I could not contain myself until you read this!  I amazed even myself - I read this chapter at least 50 times, and I never noticed all that I found Friday night.  I think our collaborating and off-thread discussions are honing our skills at reading Martin's subtext and his keen use of metaphor.  I found an interview where Martin discusses how he is fond of metaphor, and I think we are on the right track.  The language is specific.  No wonder it takes Martin years to birth a new novel!

 I read in TWoIaF that the singers have Water magic - and weirwood is a name that means much and more.

I will be back to further address your insightful commentary.  But I hope you visit our sister thread - we are on page 13!

[Wizz-The-Smith]

21 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

FINALLY, MY WIZZ HAS RETURNED!

I could not contain myself until you read this!  I amazed even myself - I read this chapter at least 50 times, and I never noticed all that I found Friday night.  I think our collaborating and off-thread discussions are honing our skills at reading Martin's subtext and his keen use of metaphor.  I found an interview where Martin discusses how he is fond of metaphor, and I think we are on the right track.  The language is specific.  No wonder it takes Martin years to birth a new novel!

 I read in TWoIaF that the singers have Water magic - and weirwood is a name that means much and more.

I will be back to further address your insightful commentary.  But I hope you visit our sister thread - we are on page 13!

Exactly, I am finding new stuff with every chapter I re-read at the moment.  Some cool stuff when I finish the RL's posts as well.  I agree we are on the right path, it's exciting.  And yes, I think we may be helping each other grow, which I am very proud of. 

I'll check out the sister thread now, I have missed so much!