Astronomy of Ice and Fire: Black Hole Moon

[LmL]

Hey Ser Master X. The Dawn meteorite is one of the pieces of the puzzle that I don't have a clear bead on. If am right about the two moons being an ice and a fire moon, it's hard to see Dawn coming from a fire moon rock, simply because its symbolism is so icy. My two leading ideas for the Dawn meteor is either a piece of the COMET which broke off before the explosion - and ideas similar to yours, except it's comet stone that is undefiled - and a piece of he ice moon itself. Remember in my first essay, the scene in Oldtown where Alleras is shooting the apples? The first apple, representing the water forging phase of Lightbringer, is "cored" by the arrow. "Cored" generally means to cut out the core, although it could be a figurative way of saying "direct hit" and nothing more. But it almost sounds like a piece of the comet went through the ice moon... That's kind of hard to picture, so haven't spent a lot of time pushing that idea.

The bottom line is that I am very open minded about the Dawn meteor, because I just haven't seen a strong and clear sign about it. The best clues I have that it is pure comet stone involve the element phosphorus. Phosphorus is the Greek word for Morningstar (Eosphorus, technically, but same word), just as Lucifer is the Latin word for the Morningstar. As such, phosphorus also means "light-bringer," "dawn-bringer," "son of the morning," etc.

Phosphorus also:

- is white
- burns brightly
- is a necessary element for the first chain reactions leading to life on earth
- was carried to earth by comets
- can be added to steel in small amounts to make it sharper (!)

So, a phosphorus bearing comet would be a light bringer, literally bringing life itself to the earth with a pale stone. The symbolism is very suggestive, and if George is aware of all he meanings of Lightbringer, he's certainly, certainly aware of the phosphorus stuff. It really seems to fit. And if Dawn is supposed to be superior to the black Valyrian steel, as many think it would be, that would be explained by its status as pure comet stone.

Do you see a way for a bit of the fire moon to somehow gain the icy, milkglass imagery? That's the thing that keeps making me want to place Dawn either in the "ice" category, or at best, neutral. I happen to think Dawn is the original Ice of house Stark, myself, for various reasons. Even if it is comet stone, it still has predominately icy imagery. The Others swords, though crystal and not milkglass, are called pale swords, just as Dawn is. The Others bones are like milkglass, just like Dawn. I don't think Dawn to be made from Other bones, just as V steel is not made from dragon bones per an SSM, consider the symmetry. Dragons bones are black and contain a lot of iron, which is an ingredient to v steel, while Other bones are white like milkglass, which seems to be an ingredient in the sword Dawn. Not sure it milkglass is magical like dragon glass and Dawn actually has magical milkglass in it, or if it's just supposed to resemble it, but either way.... dawn is pretty icy. Also, if y look at all the sunrises in the story, they are almost always described as cold.

There's a scene at Craster's where Jon sleeps outside, and wakes up to find everything coated in ice at the dawn. It's described as appearing all magical and shiny and what not - the phrase "icy brightness" is used - and it seems like a strong clue that Dawn the sword is actually Ice, and that it will shine brightly in the right circumstance. Of course everything I think I have uncovered about AA's Lightbringer points to a black sword and either red fire or red and black fire. So, as I was saying at the end of this essay, I see AA Lightbringer as Nightbringer, and Dawn as the real bringer of light. But when people talk about Lightbringer the sword, they are referring to AA's sword, and that one was darkness affiliated.

How does that sit with you? The phosphorus stuff in particular - does that make sense as applying to Dawn the way I suggest?

[Ser Master X]

Sorry if I don't go into detail, I'm not fully up to date with everything Game of Thrones. Some of it is serious, some is just a laugh (bottom bit) I was having, but there's no doubt bits of truth there.

 

The phosphorus does make sense in the context of the meteor bringing it (and "other"minerals/magics"). Iridium (and indium) is another common mineral that is more common in meteors and rare on Earth and is "silvery white." Hard and brittle, but who knows its properties forged into an alloy with other minerals. From what I read it is the most corrosive-resistant metal known. In the "noble" family of metals and is not affected by high temperatures. They're also of the platinum family. I just find it weird, what with the connection to people with varying platinum/silver coloured hair that are resistant to fire and control fire monsters and love their meteors... Just a coincidence?

 

I do stand by the theory that there IS at least the three types of meteor debris described above, and totally yes possibly even bits of the other moon chipped off, too. It stands to reason Lightbringer (the sword) was made using multiple different meteor fragments (mineral compositions). Obviously they would not have all landed in the same place, so it's likely the forger went on a bit of a worldwide scavenger hunt here. When you consider there was supposed to be literally millions raining down...unless he had a way to track specific fragments, it would have taken many, many years. Unless he got totally lucky.

 

On Eldric Shadowchaser. Clearly a First Men name. I mean they were around then, it would stand to reason they'd have a name of their own for him. (Sorry if this was answered, I haven't read all the topic, but a good chunk/slow reader).

 

The moon destroyed in orbit brought parallels to the supposed planet/moon "supposedly" destroyed in our Earth's orbit (with the asteroid belt being its debris). I mean, they literally called it Tiamat, which is a dragon's name, too. In some descriptions (not 100%, this could be something else) it's largest fragment became our moon FOREVER altering our weather and stuff (which is what happened on Westeros).

 

On the black stone though; if it is from a meteor, whether it's defiled moon rock or actual comet bits, that stuff actually had to hit Planetos. MILLIONS. Maybe even big chunks. Comet/defiled moon pieces are likely the stuff in Asshai since yes it really does sound as if it magically irradiated. The question is, did it actually hit that spot? I'd say yes. Places seem to have sprung up where meteors (big ones, or "specific" ones hit), maybe even these colonies at the meteors were initially set up by parties the BSE sent out to find/look for his "magic rocks?"

 

Take this next bit with some grains of salt, liquor and a good belly laugh! (Insane ramblings from someone who was VERY bored...)

 

This was me looking at it with an AA (ancient astronauts) point of view. Essentially "gods from the stars" (y'know "aliens") came from the moon that was destroyed (long before it was destroyed), "maybe" they interbred with man thus giving magic, spreading their magic. Eventually as the ages passed, their great empire was diminishing, even their lifespans were getting shorter (dying magic?), the magic they relied on to control the world dwindled/grew weaker for some reason, likely used up magic rock from their moon home. They were losing control of the empire (wild men and beasts at the door etc.) Of course, info/lore were preserved from where they came from and the BSE hatched a plan; he couldn't go back, but he could surely bring the magic rocks to him (you've already explained how, so there's no point in going into it). Maybe though, he actually ended up bringing stuff to Earth that he shouldn't have (The Others?) Who ended just doing his empire its dying blows. Heck the platinum etc. colour hairs is even AA stuff. I'm not saying any of this is AA, but George has deliberately put this stuff in there.

 

On dragons eggs. Could they be alien? Is it actually possible the eggs could survive entry through the Planetos atmosphere? Or are dragons (initially) alchemically/magically created to be controlled by the Valyrian? (and whoever the DNA/blood line the Valyrians came from). Are Valyrians descended from Empire of Dawns people that interbred with Earth humans, but naturally cast out because their magic bloodline had become weak, eventually becoming their enemy and fighting it out? Were Valyrians initially the Empires attack dogs with dragon pets specifically created for them to take over the world? Maybe even the reason the First Men came to Westeros, to get the hell off the continent away from them?

 

I actually assumed at one point that R'Hllor was struck down dead, with his godlike body at the bottom of the north sea, essentially the Drowned God. At that point its resurrection magic became twisted, raising the dead as wights, thus The Other. We are told at one point they're all one god or some such words. The Others are actually looking for something, perhaps certain magic meteorites big enough to revive it to its R'Hllor state?

[oneandonlypostguy]

"Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist".

 

Seems to be literally stating a cosmological union of the sun and the moon. The son of a moon and the sun combined into one entity, credit to your cosmological ideas for thinking of this. GRRM seems to have so many layers in a single sentence.

[LmL]

"Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist".

 

Seems to be literally stating a cosmological union of the sun and the moon. The son of a moon and the sun combined into one entity, credit to your cosmological ideas for thinking of this. GRRM seems to have so many layers in a single sentence.

 

I take it you're associating the red fire with the sun and the black ice the moon? That's how I see it. The moon meteors "drank the sun's fire," which associated them with fire , but also light drinking (which means black ice).  Ned's sword Ice, which is black (I've been calling it black Ice for fun) is theoretically made out of moon meteorite, but fertilized with sun fire. Of course Jon's mother is Lyanna, so the ice surely comes from her.

I think about Jon as having three symbols, chiefly: The red fire, fro Rhaegar, the blue rose, from his mother, and the black ice representing the merger of both, per the observations about black Ice above. 

It appears again in the cracks in the Wall:

 

Jon Snow turned away. The last light of the sun had begun to fade. He watched the cracks along the Wall (where we saw the blue rose) go from red to grey to black, from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice. Down below, Lady Melisandre would be lighting her nightfire and chanting, Lord of Light, defend us, for the night is dark and full of terrors . “Winter is coming,” Jon said at last, breaking the awkward silence, “and with it the white walkers. The Wall is where we stop them. The Wall was made to stop them … but the Wall must be manned.

JON, ADWD