R+L=J v147

[Lady Darry]

KingMonkey

One way to look at it is that if Dayne and Stark heritage is so connected, what would Dayne blood bring to the table? Targ blood is something new. Valyrian steel appears to have anti-Other properties. Does Dawn? We don't know, but given the similarity between Dawn and the bones of Others, it may be that Dawn is an Other-weapon in the way that Valyrian Steel is a dragon-weapon. Valyrian steel is rumoured to be tempered with Valyrian blood-magic. Wouldn't it make some sense if Jon is strengthened by being tempered with Valyrian blood?

But there is some foreshadowing going on that Jon could use an 'Other-weapon' His imaginary is more or less about Ice, so a weapon that resembles bones of Others could come handy for his fate. With all the Others imaginary around Jon it's not necessary he would want a anti-Other sword. Actually in that regard it makes even more sense to own Dawn.

Benjen Stark emerged from the shelter he shared with his nephew. “There you are. Jon, damn it, don’t go off like that by yourself. I thought the Others had gotten you.” - AGOT Jon

Ser Patrek smiled. “Tell me, Lord Commander, should the Others turn up, do you plan to offer hospitality to them as well?” - ADWD Jon

"Men say that freezing to death is almost peaceful. Fire, though … do you see the candle, Gilly?" -ADWD Jon

etc.

We really need to get that SSM verified. It really seems odd for George to answer a question like that at all, he doesn't usually shoot down speculative theories like that. It seems like if nothing else he planted the dragonbone = v steel ingredient as a red herring, in which case he would not give it away either.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1193/

Cool idea. We have no way to know what the "rules" are anyway.

We do:

The same guy asked about the Daynes and the Sword of the Morning, asking how that title is decided. George said the Sword of the Morning is always a member of House Dayne, someone who is deemed worthy of wielding Dawn as decided within the House, that whoever it is would have to earn the right to wield it. (report from Q&A with GRRM)

if a Dayne great great great grandmother is enough to claim Dawn, then half of Westeros can claim Dawn. So I can't see how is Dyanna Dayne in this regard relevant (btw while we are discussing names, Lyanna and Dyanna kinda sound similar, is it just a coincidence?)

Yeah--I could buy that. The only question is--do readers get anything from it? Lyanna Mormont is spirited and defiant, as you say. But we know it's at least something of a tie in because we know at least a few things about Lyanna Stark's personality. Do we know anything about Wylla Wetnurse? Anything that could parallel with Wylla Manderly? I can't think of anything, but I'm away from my books. . .

Wylla Manderly is loyal. And Wylla Wetnurse is supposedly also loyal. She keep a secret. She was OK with 'everyone' thinking she gave birth to a bastard. That lie damaged her honor and she went with it.

[Prince of Ghost]

I guess we'd rename the thread as X+Y=J and be busy dissecting the hints towards the new theory.

But given how closely parsed the old material is, I consider this highly unlikely.

I know in a few heresy threads from now there will be essays and discussing alternate theories to R+L=J.

[shk12344]

I have always wondered with this thread, will the thread continue if we find out that R+L=J isn't true in The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. Will people accept the new cannon if Jon's parents aren't Lyanna and Rhaegar? I am not trying to troll but it would be fascinating to me considering the years spent on this theory and the number of threads on the issue. And of course the reaction from the fan base would be very fascinating, many individuals would be shocked given their faith in a theory they now consider almost to be fact.

Edit:Spelling

Chance of R + L =J being false is practically zero, as in one in a billion.

[LmL]

But there is some foreshadowing going on that Jon could use an 'Other-weapon' His imaginary is more or less about Ice, so a weapon that resembles bones of Others could come handy for his fate. With all the Others imaginary around Jon it's not necessary he would want a anti-Other sword. Actually in that regard it makes even more sense to own Dawn.

Thanks for the clarification on Dawn's choosing criteria. I have actually seen that SSM but forgot about it somehow. :cheers:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1193/

We do:

if a Dayne great great great grandmother is enough to claim Dawn, then half of Westeros can claim Dawn. So I can't see how is Dyanna Dayne in this regard relevant (btw while we are discussing names, Lyanna and Dyanna kinda sound similar, is it just a coincidence?)

Yes that is the SSM which I would like to see verified. That one is direct fan correspondence, iirc, as opposed to something he said in public at a convention. Hence, it seems... less than solid. There are enough clues which seem to indicate dragon bones COULD be an ingredient that the shakiness of this SSM kind of gnaws at me.

If Dawn is an icy dragon killing sword - this is my opinion - then it is the original sword of house Stark, the original Ice. Thus, Jon actually would have a right to wield it through his Stark blood - although I don't know how that reveal is supposed to happen.

Honestly I think Darkstar stealing it is as likely a method to get it out of Starfall as any.