Madness Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 See this is how I know you're commonly delusional. No one knows what Bakker's agent said to him and Bakker used the word "chastise." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Harass was definitely the wrong word. Had I used engage instead of harass, we'd never be having this conversation. However, clearly the mods aren't interested in facilitating Bakker's series. We can have eight threads asking what order to read Abercrombie and three "Should I Skip Gardens of the Moon" Malazan threads, but heaven forbid we try to have one thread to raise awareness amongst the reading population for Bakker. I appreciate this community, but I can't help but chafe against the heavy handed approach of some mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I didn't mean you in specific SR, sorry if it came out that way. Ive seen similar things on the internet get out of hand real fast though, so I understand completely where the mods are coming from. And of course the mods aren't interested in "facilitating" Bakker. They're mods on an Internet forum, not a publishing company. Come down from your cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 now now, gents. no need to be uncharitable! there've been times when we've had four or five active RSB threads on the front page, and some of us otherwise traffic the RSB into other threads, even contrary to the immigration rules thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalnak the Magnificent Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 See this is how I know you're commonly delusional. No one knows what Bakker's agent said to him and Bakker used the word "chastise."It's a paraphrase - or more accurately, it's an allegory. You're right, no one knows what the agent said. The agent could have said 'fuck off doing all this stuff with overlook' and that would have been a chastisement. As would 'kindly please inform your dozens of fans to stop the harassment campaign'. Both are chastising. Neither is wrong. Personally, I think it's pretty delusional to think that the unpaid moderators of a website would be at all interested in facilitating the career of an unrelated author. And even more delusional to actually be somewhat angry about that fact. Are you also angry that your local Tim Horton's is not facilitating Bakker's career? In any case, Madness, you're welcome to go to your own site and continue the campaign to facilitate any author of your choice, and even feel free to complain about the free work that the mods are doing on this site there as well. I appreciate this community, but I can't help but chafe against the heavy handed approach of some mods. Perhaps you could actually talk to said mods about why they're closing the threads? Or maybe, possibly, figure out what you can do to fix it? My take is that there is not any more actual action being taken any more - so a thread to promote a campaign that doesn't actually exist any more is not very useful to keep unlocked. I don't personally know, because I've not asked, but that'd be my guess. It's a reasonable guess given that the mod in question actually stated why she closed the thread. Typically the mods are reasonable people who only have so much time, so chances are that if they're 'heavy handed' it's because they see things like 'harass overlook' and go 'gosh, that might not be a great thing to encourage', or they're acting on a report that someone sent in. They don't read all the threads, they don't act on all the comments, and they aren't specifically targeting people save, perhaps, that fucker sologdin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 As Kalbear said, that thread had run its course. I mean, it fell off the first page (!) last week, one of the first times in the last eight years that Lit forum has not had a Bakker representation (!!). C'mon. As much as I love the guy's work, RSB can come off as a drama queen sometimes, and that woe-is-me crap does migrate onto threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I find the idea that Bakker isn't supported enough around here hilarious. We had to come up for a name for him leaking into other threads for fucks sake. Edit: Yeah, if you want to know why a mod did something, ASK. Don't bitch about it in the threads. I speak from personal experience, you'll just get people pissed off. Or you know, actually read what the mod said when she closed the thread. Now if you'll excus me I have to get back to sabotaging Bakker's career, or whatever the fuck it is you nutters think I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I knew it was you, Lol. I don't see where it even matters. It had run it course and tBH, it was becoming redundant (I'm guilty). I think sending the emails (dozens) and tweets (dozens, Bakkerfans sent the majority) is all that could be done. After Bakker's comments about being chastised, I think it best to let it run its course now. As they say, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I just put together something here. will post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 ongoing semantic apocalypse in photographic negative. gross. that stuff is worse than toffler or kurzweil. Huh. I thought the 'photographic negative' was commentary on the depiction of semen color in his works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 When I said that the issue about Bakker's next book should be contained to the thread meant to discuss the series, what I didn't intend was for people to come complain about mod decisions here. I'd issue warnings, but they're kind of pointless right now given that the board is going to be reset shortly. So knock off the whinging and conspiracy theories and realize that this is a subforum of a board for discussing A Song of Ice and Fire, by........not R. Scott Bakker. :P Q. Did my post get deleted? I don't have any mail explaining why! A. If you think it was deleted, it probably was, and you very probably know why. Don't complain on the board about it, as it doesn't really look good and it will win you no sympathy. Ran generally sends no explanations either privately or publicly on the theory that people are wise enough to know why their posts were deleted. Each moderator, however, is allowed their own policy -- some prefer to give a warning before moving on to removing posts that flout the generally accepted rules of etiquette on the board. If you really have no reason why your post was deleted, you can e-mail Ran and ask. If he deleted the mail, he'll tell you why, and if some other moderator removed it he'll forward your mail to them so that they can answer. Public questions about deletions will rarely be answered, and are usually unappreciated, as the moderators prefer to keep moderation decisions a private matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 On the subject of the ending's ambiguity, what I mean is that we want be able to tease out the metaphysics or character motivations without trying to go for the symbolism angle. I think that given this is a metaphysical whodunnit, we should have some good understanding of the metaphysics by the end of TUC. Kellhus has done a variety of things that we seem to think we have a handle on, specifically with his understanding of Space (aka Correspondence for us Mage:TAsc fans) but the extent of his power in this domain is ambiguous. See also the WLW, the nature of Time, what Chorae are, etc. Questions like "Is the Bakkerverse an Idealistic one in which all is the dream o' God" don't need to be answered though. Additionally, there are plot lines that ideally will be about the internal world rather than commentary on political stuff from this world. See Esmi reflecting on being a whore after being deposed as a case of allegorical flattening, or her apparent drop in IQ despite being a supposed genius-in-waiting in the first trilogy. LOL! :rofl: WHEN WILL THE QUESTION OF DRAGON AND CHORAE BE ANSWERED!?!?!! Heh, I am only half-kidding. I mean the entire series breaks if there isn't a good answer to this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 On the subject of the ending's ambiguity, what I mean is that we want be able to tease out the metaphysics or character motivations without trying to go for the symbolism angle. I think that given this is a metaphysical whodunnit, we should have some good understanding of the metaphysics by the end of TUC. Kellhus has done a variety of things that we seem to think we have a handle on, specifically with his understanding of Space (aka Correspondence for us Mage:TAsc fans) but the extent of his power in this domain is ambiguous. See also the WLW, the nature of Time, what Chorae are, etc. Questions like "Is the Bakkerverse an Idealistic one in which all is the dream o' God" don't need to be answered though. What do we think should be answered? Here's my list, based on memory -- I haven't read the books since WLW came out. * Ishual - what happened to the Dunyain? Apparently Akka and M don't hang out very long. * Non-men - What's the deal with aligning with the Consult? * Dreams of the golden chamber - will the No-god be resurrected? Does Proyas fit into this? * What's Kellhus's end-game plan? I recall reading somewhere that Kelly won't be getting any POVs this series. Personally, I'd like at least one massive info-dump regarding this central mystery. * 'False' prophecies? How does M's baby fit into this? Who's the father? (this was discussed recently) * Is Moe still kicking around? Has he transferred his consciousness? What's the deal with Meppa? * What'll happen with the White Luck Warrior? How is he going to cross the continent to assassinate Kellhus? * What will happen to the Ordeal? * Will Kelmomas die painfully? One can hope. What's the point of his story, other than causing chaos? * What about the Gods? What about the Outside? Will they be shut out by the end? * Akka's dreams? Who's sending them? There's a lot to cover for the last volume, particularly as those who have read the book suggest that it does wrap up major points while opening up lots of new questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'd be happy if half of those questions were answered sufficiently with TUC. I have a gut feeling they won't be, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 OK guys, I have a feeling Scott got told that it will be "done when it's done." I doubt we'll hear much, if anything really. To draw this thread back to actual discussion, MG at tSA found the following quote (from Scott in Grimdark Magazine), what should we make of it: Is he saying that Earwa is our negative, in the sense that it has meaning and people are learning that, where as here in the real world there is truly no meaning and we are learning that? I fancy this prediction of mine to be sooo good that it might be a spoiler...so I'll actually spoiler block it [spoiler]I think we'll find that Earwa is a giant computer and that the story is set in the future and is actually sci-fi. People could not accept the semantic apocalypse and so had a massive memory wipe because they thought they'd all act so nice if they lived in a primitive way. Nonmen are posthumans. The inchoroi are posthumans who moved to another planet/solar system but are now returning to the machine planet because of what it is doing. The point of all these things like gods, spirits, magic and judgement and heck, even morality is that as the reader we relate to how they all feel right - how it all seems natural...then there is the reveal that its machines (nano tech, mostly) all these things are actually based on. It's to stop people trying to just shun the machine idea - instead, it romances them with gods and magic until they move so close they can feel it in their bones...then reveals what it is they feel in their bones. In fact it's to help create an analog of how a machine can have what we might call concious experience. Thus the idea of there being a mystical glossary of terms and then a technical glossary of terms to match it, which Scott mentioned on the TPB blog once - which is just a stroke of genius! IMO, anyway. [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolivar Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The last thing I'm going to say on the issue is that there's a very real reason why we needed a separate thread to discuss the next book. Westeros has a great deal of Bakker fans but, understandably, not all of them frequent the main Bakker thread. I can definitely say we got the attention of more than just the regulars by making it a separate topic. I agree with Kat that it might have run its course - we got Overlook's attention and apparently Bakker has the open channel he needed. If the fans still have a role to play after we get some news, one of us will open another thread after the forum reboot - and I hope the mods understand why it serves as purpose and should stay open. As far as my crackpot for the answers, I've said before at TSA that I think the Inchoroi are us, and sooner than we think. I don't think Bakker will be so heavy handed with it but I think they'll obviously give us some lessons to take with us as we embark on transhumanism. As far as the metaphysics, I want to believe things aren't so black and white as Earwa is enchanted, our world is not. Bakker said many of the metaphysics will remain unexplained and mysterious, to reflect how they are in our world, but I don't know how his views evolving over 20 years might change that. All I know is that 1) The secret of battle, that war is where conviction is made true, is something that exists in our world. 2) Free will is one of the pillars of theology and evidence of the soul; Ajencis also defines it as "that which precedes everything." Earwans explicitly have souls, yet Kellhus and Moenghus spend a lifetime showing over and again how illusory that free will is. Something else is going on. "I have searched, for nearly the length of your entire life, and I have found nothing that contradicts the Principle." 3) If Aurang is telling the truth and the Inchoroi are not just interstellar anti-natalists, then damnation exists on other, non-enchanted worlds in the Bakkerverse. So I'm most interested in seeing how these discrepancies are resolved, and getting as much clarity as we're likely to get from the finale to The Aspect Emperor. I expect it'll be like The Thousandfold Thought - that payoff of scenes we've been waiting to see but a lot of the big questions still remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'd be happy if half of those questions were answered sufficiently with TUC. I have a gut feeling they won't be, though. This would be problematic, in that those are the surface tensions that really should be addressed, considering the narrative that has been developed so far. I could understand a few being left ambiguous (Gods shut out/no Kelly POV/ultimate fate of the No-God) but stuff like Meppa, WLW, Kelmomas, Consult/Non-men is structurally important for the trilogy to exist on its own rather than be just another edition of a long running serial. Of course, Bakker has promised that there will be a huge revelation (and described this revelation in his, um, generally tone-deaf way), so I assume that at least some of the underlying metaphysics is explored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profgrape Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I would be really disappointed if we didn't get some concrete info on the No-God. Even if that information was that the No-God wasn't as important as we thought. From Madness' comments, I'm guessing that the stuff that is left ambiguous is more on the metaphysical side of things, i.e "why doesn't the Psukhe leave a Mark?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This would be problematic, in that those are the surface tensions that really should be addressed, considering the narrative that has been developed so far. I could understand a few being left ambiguous (Gods shut out/no Kelly POV/ultimate fate of the No-God) but stuff like Meppa, WLW, Kelmomas, Consult/Non-men is structurally important for the trilogy to exist on its own rather than be just another edition of a long running serial. Of course, Bakker has promised that there will be a huge revelation (and described this revelation in his, um, generally tone-deaf way), so I assume that at least some of the underlying metaphysics is explored. Yea, a few of those need to be explained well and will be. But, I believe the reason why the Nonmen went to the Consult have already been addressed. To avoid damnation, nothing more. Meppa, the Gods and the WLW all, I feel will be left ambiguous. I just think the things we want concrete answers on, we won't get. Kellhus HAS to be addressed and the No-God, those two would wrap up the series, IMHO. Granted I'm hoping more is revealed, and thoroughly. When Madness first read the book, he said there was a revelation each chapter. Yet, he walked away with plenty of questions. I just hope its a worthy finale to this journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Callan S., ooooh that's good and it correlates exactly with something I picked up on the other night on reread. [SPOILER]When big moments happen in Earwa, the POV character always describes a buzzing in their head. Its like their so close to the fabric (Machines) of what Earwa is......they hear it? Or as you say feel it in their bones? Cnauir explains that feeling at Kiyuth, and I remember that same feeling being described throughout the series. Conphas also details that feeling when being welcomed by Xerius after Kiyuth. Like the world is hanging in that moment. [/SPOILER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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