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R+L=J v. 148


Ygrain

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So Brandon and Lyanna committed an abominable sin, and Ned erects statues for them? Rather peculiar. And he keeps an abomination born of that union at his home, never hinting towards anything like it? Also, upon learning about the twincest, he never reminiscences that his own sibling did the same? Even more peculiar.

If you had siblings that you loved who died in horrible ways would you want to remember them as horrible people? If anything what i'm saying is he chose the lesser of two evils. So is it even an afterthought that you would decide to take care of there child? The answer your looking for is no.

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Still "a year"* is always significantly longer than a human pregnancy. By three months precisely.

No way. Sorry.

*) "a year":

AGoT 12 Eddard II

When the war started, Brandon had been dead for at least the time it takes for the message from King's Landing to the Eyrie.

AGoT 27 Eddard VI

This year of siege has to fit somewhere into the above "close to a year".

I am not quick to judge. You're not the first one to have brought up Brandon as Jon's father, and you won't be the last one.

It is every clear, however, that Brandon dies before the war officially starts and the banners are called, that the war lasted for a year-ish (minus Dragonstone), and that a human only has a gestation time of 9 months.

Lyanna died in her birthing bed (at the end of that year of battling), and she had a fever. She can only last so long after the baby is born with that (puerperal) fever.

Robb and Jon are pretty much the same age, give or take a few weeks, perhaps, but not months. We know when Catelyn got pregnant of Robb, which was during the war, more in the beginning (was it the third month in?). Jon must have been made around that time, too.

Hence Jon was made months after Brandon Stark died. And hence his sperm not time-travelling. :P

(If anyone who has the time line down better than me - because I'm not the expert on this - wants to explain better, please do.)

Still no proof that the timeline isn't vague all i'm getting is conjecture, listen if they said the war began at the beginning 282 that's one thing if Brandon died at the beginning of the same year same deal. However what i'm hearing isn't fact but hearsay. The war lasted about a year that's a fact. The war began 282AC and ended 283AC that's also a fact. If you hear that Brandon died and was nowhere near Lyanna at the beginning of 282AC then I might revise my answer.

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Still no proof that the timeline isn't vague all i'm getting is conjecture, listen if they said the war began at the beginning 282 that's one thing if Brandon died at the beginning of the same year same deal. However what i'm hearing isn't fact but hearsay. The war lasted about a year that's a fact. The war began 282AC and ended 283AC that's also a fact. If you hear that Brandon died and was nowhere near Lyanna at the beginning of 282AC then I might revise my answer.

You should just revise it then because the whole beginning of the war is based around the fact that lyanna wasn't near Brandon and her family kinda the reason he was killed... Trying to get her back..
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Why do you dismiss all the candidates for Jon's parents? Have you guys ever seriously looked into anything but R + L? I ask because I have rarely read any serious discussion over Jon's parentage here except for the R + L.

The comments i read on this thread says every other consideration is dismissed for no other reason than most of you have not tried, and by the comments above I see I am close to the mark.

Disclaimer:

It is not my intention to lump everyone in rlj land together. I am referincing the majority.

I don't think it's that we dismiss them. It's that all the other possible combination of letters--B, A, N, M, W, and the rest of the alphabet soup--do not stand up to the same scrutiny that RLJ does. Is RLJ perfect? Nope. But we've got 2 books to go. But all the other theories fail because of timeline, because of symbolic importance, because of the way the characters (like Ned, for one) act, because of SSMs, because of the almost insurmountable evidence that points to RLJ. Anyone who wants to put forth a non-RLJ theory for Jon Snow's parents has to present evidence that hasn't been heard before and explained why that evidence fails for whatever reason.

I too bet 100$ that R+L=J is true.

I'll add 100$ to this imaginary pot.

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Brandon died before the war started.



Jon and Robb are about the same age, and Robb was made right before the Battle of the Bells, was it? That was right after the Tully sisters were married out to strengthen armies. (A few months in.)



Hence Brandon already cannot be the father.



Lyanna was found at the end of the year, in her bed, dying. Pretty nicely on time, give or take some of that artistic freedom since travel times at the end of the war are a bit wonky.



Seems like someone wants to keep saying the time lines are vague just so a guy who died months before can still impregnate someone.




Brandon, the poor guy, must have been so shocked that someone might be sleeping with his sister (out of wedlock, because why would he at that point think that Rhaegar might have married her, if he did), which is the exact treatment he gives high born women in the North, lol.


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at least they finally accept that Jons mother is Lyanna =)))))))) tell u its really a big move =))))



and the father? after Ned, Brandon (oh yeah, these tragic incestuous love affairs :crying: im crying now :crying: ), Aerys (wow..just..amazing :drool: ), Mance Rhaeg..eh..i mean Rayder, High Sparr...sorry..Howland Reed, Arthur fookin Dayne (cause this guy has a cool sword, yup)....bla bla bla..Who will be the next candidate for "Jons real father"? Oswell? Hightower? (Hey, these guys were at TOJ that time, who knows what they could do :drool: ). Darkstar? (hes a Dayne too). Oberyn Martell ? (well, that tower lay in the northern edge of the red mountains of DORNE, sooo....) or maybe Littlefinger? Varys? Illyrio? Jon Con? awww, there are sooooo many potential candidates. i cant wait to read these awesome hypothesises :drool: come on guys, show me what you got :drool:

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Brandon died before the war started.

Jon and Robb are about the same age, and Robb was made right before the Battle of the Bells, was it? That was right after the Tully sisters were married out to strengthen armies. (A few months in.)

Hence Brandon already cannot be the father.

Lyanna was found at the end of the year, in her bed, dying. Pretty nicely on time, give or take some of that artistic freedom since travel times at the end of the war are a bit wonky.

Seems like someone wants to keep saying the time lines are vague just so a guy who died months before can still impregnate someone.

Brandon, the poor guy, must have been so shocked that someone might be sleeping with his sister (out of wedlock, because why would he at that point think that Rhaegar might have married her, if he did), which is the exact treatment he gives high born women in the North, lol.

before 282 you mean he died in 281 but that's impossible unless your saying he died before. Here are the facts, Lyanna was abducted and Brandon was killed in 282AC. The war ended in 283AC right around the time Lyanna died. The war lasted about a year. Not a year not even half a year, but about a year. Tell me if my theory can't hold up what's yours?

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12 - 9 = 3 months dead. That's my theory. What's yours?



If you think that George Martin wrote out everything day by day from January 1st, 281 to December 31st, 283 then you are indeed going to have a little time line problem because he'd never do that, by his own admission.


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before 282 you mean he died in 281 but that's impossible unless your saying he died before. Here are the facts, Lyanna was abducted and Brandon was killed in 282AC. The war ended in 283AC right around the time Lyanna died. The war lasted about a year. Not a year not even half a year, but about a year. Tell me if my theory can't hold up what's yours?

"Not our men," Ned said patiently. "Lannister men. The lion of Lannister flew over the ramparts, not the crowned stag. And they had taken the city by treachery."

The war had raged for close to a year. Lords great and small had flocked to Robert's banners; others had remained loyal to Targaryen. The mighty Lannisters of Casterly Rock, the Wardens of the West, had remained aloof from the struggle, ignoring calls to arms from both rebels and royalists. Aerys Targaryen must have thought that his gods had answered his prayers when Lord Tywin Lannister appeared before the gates of King's Landing with an army twelve thousand strong, professing loyalty. So the mad king had ordered his last mad act. He had opened his city to the lions at the gate.

"Treachery was a coin the Targaryens knew well," Robert said. The anger was building in him again. "Lannister paid them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it."

English does not agree with your theory.

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at least they finally accept that Jons mother is Lyanna =)))))))) tell u its really a big move =))))

and the father? after Ned, Brandon (oh yeah, these tragic incestuous love affairs :crying: im crying now :crying: ), Aerys (wow..just..amazing :drool: ), Mance Rhaeg..eh..i mean Rayder, High Sparr...sorry..Howland Reed, Arthur fookin Dayne (cause this guy has a cool sword, yup)....bla bla bla..Who will be the next candidate for "Jons real father"? Oswell? Hightower? (Hey, these guys were at TOJ that time, who knows what they could do :drool: ). Darkstar? (hes a Dayne too). Oberyn Martell ? (well, that tower lay in the northern edge of the red mountains of DORNE, sooo....) or maybe Littlefinger? Varys? Illyrio? Jon Con? awww, there are sooooo many potential candidates. i cant wait to read these awesome hypothesises :drool: come on guys, show me what you got :drool:

Promise me, Ned. Promise me that no one in Westeros will ever find out about my ménage à cinq in this Tower, and that I don't even know who the baby's daddy really is. Promise me!

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No evidence that can't be dismissed with a wave of our hand, I'm sure. I think you may have just solved the mystery! Now, why is it important??

Hey I am just checking the alternatives. You RLJ folk are very narrow-minded. Can you prove me that Moonboy is not the father of Jon?

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12 - 9 = 3 months dead. That's my theory. What's yours?

If you think that George Martin wrote out everything day by day from January 1st, 281 to December 31st, 283 then you are indeed going to have a little time line problem because he'd never do that, by his own admission.

"Not our men," Ned said patiently. "Lannister men. The lion of Lannister flew over the ramparts, not the crowned stag. And they had taken the city by treachery."

The war had raged for close to a year. Lords great and small had flocked to Robert's banners; others had remained loyal to Targaryen. The mighty Lannisters of Casterly Rock, the Wardens of the West, had remained aloof from the struggle, ignoring calls to arms from both rebels and royalists. Aerys Targaryen must have thought that his gods had answered his prayers when Lord Tywin Lannister appeared before the gates of King's Landing with an army twelve thousand strong, professing loyalty. So the mad king had ordered his last mad act. He had opened his city to the lions at the gate.

"Treachery was a coin the Targaryens knew well," Robert said. The anger was building in him again. "Lannister paid them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it."

English does not agree with your theory.

you need a timeline to be correct as do I so you are correct and also incorrect at the same time, like I said show me a timeline. Also who do you think his father is? Just curious because I want to know where your coming from.

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Hey I am just checking the alternatives. You RLJ folk are very narrow-minded. Can you prove me that Moonboy is not the father of Jon?

Jon doesn't have a sense of humor. It CLEARLY can't be Moonboy. Just like no purple eyes and pale silver hair means he CLEARLY can't be Rhaegar's. He looks like a Stark. Therefore he can only be from TWO Starks--because Jon is Extra-Starky. The father is CLEARLY Ned. Or Brandon. Or maybe Benjen. Or maybe some weird Stark-Uncle we have yet to met.

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You want to know what our theory is? Have you read the title of this thread by any chance, and also the first post of this thread?

Wait... We're not going to have to prove that Rhaegar wasn't in Essos, right?

Listen I want to believe in RLJ too but i'm not gonna shit on a possible theory. In the real world shit happens. Not to mention that gullible people are easy to fool. Not saying i'm not gullible as I want to believe it too. However if the series is always surprising us then isn't it better to see what that surprise might be. If your right good for you, but if your wrong you'll feel really stupid. Where as I will feel half as stupid because my main theory is Brandon, while my secondary theory is Rhaegar.

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Listen I want to believe in RLJ too but i'm not gonna shit on a possible theory. In the real world shit happens. Not to mention that gullible people are easy to fool. Not saying i'm not gullible as I want to believe it too. However if the series is always surprising us then isn't it better to see what that surprise might be. If your right good for you, but if your wrong you'll feel really stupid. Where as I will feel half as stupid because my main theory is Brandon, while my secondary theory is Rhaegar.

Where is the evidence that Brandon and Lyanna were having sex? I'll take anything--metaphor, symbolic, actual textual evidence.

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Just wanted to say I know that. ;) Perhaps something about what I said was unclear. It's okay, though.

I was just thinking about the other Stark sibling potential incest: Benjen/Lyanna, and that line about how Jon should first make himself a few bastards before joining the NW. I've thankfully never seen that line being used as evidence that Benjen is Jon's father. :lol:

Be happy while your ignorance lasts, I have.

If you had siblings that you loved who died in horrible ways would you want to remember them as horrible people? If anything what i'm saying is he chose the lesser of two evils. So is it even an afterthought that you would decide to take care of there child? The answer your looking for is no.

Remembering my siblings fondly =/= giving them statues in the ancestral tomb. Brandon was never Lord of Winterfell and women don't get statues at all.

Also,I never said that Ned shouldn't have taken care of their child. The peculiar thing is that the child's conception broke one of the major taboos and that Ned should have reflected on it somehow.

Promise me, Ned. Promise me that no one in Westeros will ever find out about my ménage à cinq in this Tower, and that I don't even know who the baby's daddy really is. Promise me!

:lmao:

Why do you dismiss all the candidates for Jon's parents? Have you guys ever seriously looked into anything but R + L? I ask because I have rarely read any serious discussion over Jon's parentage here except for the R + L.

The comments i read on this thread says every other consideration is dismissed for no other reason than most of you have not tried, and by the comments above I see I am close to the mark.

Gosh, have you never noticed that various B+L, N+L, N+A and the like come every other day and have been argued ad nauseam? Or that the majority of people have a better grasp of book facts and SSMs and the like, and see that a competing theory falls short on facts?

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Be happy while your ignorance lasts, I have.

Remembering my siblings fondly =/= giving them statues in the ancestral tomb. Brandon was never Lord of Winterfell and women don't get statues at all.

Also,I never said that Ned shouldn't have taken care of their child. The peculiar thing is that the child's conception broke one of the major taboos and that Ned should have reflected on it somehow.

:lmao:

Gosh, have you never noticed that various B+L, N+L, N+A and the like come every other day and have been argued ad nauseam? Or that the majority of people have a better grasp of book facts and SSMs and the like, and see that a competing theory falls short on facts?

reflected on it how? every time Ned saw Jon it was a constant reminder, that and the promise that haunted him.

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