Jon Snow vs. Robb Stark

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Well every Westorosi army that ever fought the wildlings, including the one comprised of only 1500 men in ASOS, disagrees with your conclusion.

Yet the books agree with my opinion that Jon is better than Robb. No matter how you would like to distort in in the books Jon is better, Robb is never mentioned as a good fighter and we had examples of people who had no war experience being better from people who had.

[Frey Pie]

Yes because that is what we know from the freaking books. Was ever Robb mentioned in the books how good fighter he was? I don't think so. So there is no reason why he should be better.

What you said was that being in battle means that someone is better. So what I am saying is that this is wrong because we know that Brandon was better than Ned.

Robb's army did that. And when it comes down to common Westerosi army vs wildlings with mammoths and giants I bet on the later.

Your basin your whole belief on what Jon said before he even went to the wall. There is the world of difference between then and Robb's death. Jon's only mentioned as a good fighter when he's making mince meat of peasants who don't know how to hold a sword until he shows them. At the same time robb is training against fully grown men, many who have fought in wars already

And I guess because Jaime was better then Ned, all Lannisters are better then Starks. Brandon may have been an exceptional fighter, we don't know. I'm working with what we know on both characters and their experience. Nether are exceptional with a sword but Jon's potential seems to be higher. If he had been in Robb's position his progress would have been Faster. He wasn't though and instead he spent time training with rapers.

And given what we see from the text...westerosi army > wildling army

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Your basin your whole belief on what Jon said before he even went to the wall. There is the world of difference between then and Robb's death. Jon's only mentioned as a good fighter when he's making mince meat of peasants who don't know how to hold a sword until he shows them. At the same time robb is training against fully grown men, many who have fought in wars already

And I guess because Jaime was better then Ned, all Lannisters are better then Starks. Brandon may have been an exceptional fighter, we don't know. I'm working with what we know on both characters and their experience. Nether are exceptional with a sword but Jon's potential seems to be higher. If he had been in Robb's position his progress would have been Faster. He wasn't though and instead he spent time training with rapers.

And given what we see from the text...westerosi army > wildling army

I am basing what I say on the books. On the other hand there is no where in the books said that Robb was a good fighter or at least best than Jon.

[Frey Pie]

I am basing what I say on the books. On the other hand there is no where in the books said that Robb was a good fighter or at least best than Jon.

No but you can infer from the book that Robb and Jon were closely matched martially. I would also say that Jon will make as good a leader in battle as Robb once he gets the chance. Jon doesn't tell Benjen that he wipes the floor with Robb every time. He says he's a better sword while Robb's a better lance. He's being truthful for their skills at that moment in time

We know who Jon trains against until he meets Iron Emmett. Nothing great. Bran says Robb spends his time in the yard training. Against men, trained warriors. Do you play sport? How do you get better? Playing against people below your standard or going up against bigger and better opponents? Robb's circumstances allowed him to do so, Jon's didn't for quite a time.

I think it is more then fair to say that Robb would have been better in clash and Swords, while Jon has the advantage in Game and is now a far better warrior then Robb ever was

[Jon's Queen Consort]

snip

Ok because it became really boring. What I am saying is in the books what you say is nowhere in the books and is simply based on wishful thinking. Robb nowhere in the books is mentioned as a good fighter, a good general yes a fighter no. Now the assumption that experience means talent or power is it has been proved that is simply silly. So I don't see why we should turn to wishful thinking.

[Frey Pie]

Ok because it became really boring. What I am saying is in the books what you say is nowhere in the books and is simply based on wishful thinking. Robb nowhere in the books is mentioned as a good fighter, a good general yes a fighter no. Now the assumption that experience means talent or power is it has been proved that is simply silly. So I don't see why we should turn to wishful thinking.

Ok because it became really boring...right then...

Ah so if i don't agree with you it's just wishful thinking on my part? Of course that makes sense as it's not possible you'd be wrong. Experience and who you train with obviously counts for nothing. My mistake

[nikstar3]

The sword/lance prowess of Robb and Jon makes it a really close call. Still, Robb is descibed as bulkier and stronger, even though this doesn't necessarily give him the edge. It's pretty hard to determine TBH.

[Sullen]

Jon, and I hate Jon.

Robb is never described as anything special as a fighter, hell, he struggles against Joffrey of all people. He might be a far better tactician than Jon, but that wouldn't save him in a duel.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ok because it became really boring...right then...

Ah so if i don't agree with you it's just wishful thinking on my part? Of course that makes sense as it's not possible you'd be wrong. Experience and who you train with obviously counts for nothing. My mistake

Again, it is what we know against what we assume. I have already prove, Brandon and Ned's case, that experience doesn't mean better.

[Charlie Hustle]

How many whites and wildlings do Snow have to kill to show that he is certified???

[Frey Pie]

Again, it is what we know against what we assume. I have already prove, Brandon and Ned's case, that experience doesn't mean better.

in one particular case. Experience always means better unless one gets too old. Edmure got curb stomped by Jaime in battle. Later he learns from this experience and beats Tywin in battle over a number of days

[The Khal Who Rode West]

How many whites and wildlings do Snow have to kill to show that he is certified???

Stannis beat a wildling, giant, and mammoth army at 67:1 odds. It's not impressive killing wildlings.

[Frey Pie]

How many whites and wildlings do Snow have to kill to show that he is certified???

I don't think anyone doubts that Jon has now passed Robb in terms of skill when Robb was at his peak. What can be argued though is that for a time robb would have been better trained and also fighting better opponents leading to a greater increase in his skill them Jon had at the wall under the not so great tutelage of Thorne

[Frey Pie]

Bran- "his days were spent drilling the guard and practicing his swordplay, making the yard ring with the sound of steel"

Jon- "There were twenty in the group he trained with....Most were two or three years his senior, yet not one was half the fighter Robb had been at fourteen"

So while Robb is exerting himself against older trained and experienced men, Jon is fighting against rabble. This does make a difference. The only way to improve is to train with people who are better then you. And to train damn hard. Both train hard, but Jon didn't have the opportunities Robb did

In Bran's next chapter Robb is in his first fight, kills a nights watch deserter and disarms Osha who us wielding a spear. It's very much up for debate

[StannistheonetrueKing7]

Just like Eddard would never beat Jaime one on one, Robb would not win one on one. Your giving Robb an army when clearly it's a face off. Give him an army and you got a fight otherwise it's gonna be Jon.

I think theres a much bigger difference between Ned and Jaime than Robb and Jon Snow. Jaime (when he was whole) is at least in the top 3 fighters in the 7 Kingdoms if not the best whereas Ned is an above average fighter generally speaking. Jon is described as a better swordsman before he goes to the wall but they would have used practise swords generally at that time. Fast forward a couple of years and they would definitely both be better but Robb may have surpassed Jon, I mean he is fighting in a real war with large battles.

[Mark Antony]

Robb would fuck Jon up 💪🏽

[rocksniffer]

Robb would fuck Jon up

maybe, but ghost could kick greywind's ass 

 

:smoking: