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RileyJones

There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

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This idea came to me after a spliff so don't take it too seriously. It's more of a "oh man wouldn't that be cool" than a serious theory.

Okay, so, the idea - there must always be a Stark in Winterfell because when the Long Night falls upon Westeros a Stark must enter the crypts/godswood to summon the spirits of their fallen ancestors to come forth and help battle the Others. Fight Ice with Ice. Then return to their slumber once all is fine and dandy.

This idea of course is heavily influence by the Dead Men of Dunharrow from the Lotr. But hey, I'm all for Ned and Robb rising to do battle as ghostly spirits. Maybe we'd get a glimpse of Bran the Builder too.

Unlikely to happen, sure, but hey it's fun to fantasize about fantasy!

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If that's the case, then why just their ancestors? Why not bring back every dead First Man that is buried nearby?



My personal theory was that the Stark Kings' spirits are imprisoned in their graves with iron swords so that they couldn't be summoned by the Night's King. The Wall was built by magic (or so the story goes) maybe some blood magic was involved and the only people who could undo it are the direct descendants of Bran the Builder, so it would be crucial to make sure the old Kings remain at peace or they could be used to bring down the last line of defense the North has.


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If that's the case, then why just their ancestors? Why not bring back every dead First Man that is buried nearby?

My personal theory was that the Stark Kings' spirits are imprisoned in their graves with iron swords so that they couldn't be summoned by the Night's King. The Wall was built by magic (or so the story goes) maybe some blood magic was involved and the only people who could undo it are the direct descendants of Bran the Builder, so it would be crucial to make sure the old Kings remain at peace or they could be used to bring down the last line of defense the North has.

So does that mean 3 of them were summoned after the kids took the swords?

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So does that mean 3 of them were summoned after the kids took the swords?

I guess they could be summoned in the future? It all depends on weather or not iron actually does imprison spirits.

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I think it means something totally different:

I believe that the Long Night didnt end with humans wining the war. I think the humans and the others made an agreement to end the war. And the Starks, as the kings of the north, made that particular agreement with the Others. Remember: In the early times they were called the Kings of Winter. That period of time was a full Winter, all over Westeros, hence they were the Kings (or the Leaders) of humanity in Westeros. I think that that agreement only holds if the Staks are still in Power or the Kings of the north. That's why it is important that there allways must be a Stark at Winterfell. The Staks have a very deep Connection to the Land of allways winter.We know from the books that the Knight's King was probablly a Stark. I believe that that was part of the agreement: the others dont invade westeros if the Starks give them their own Memebers, who then can lead the others.

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scientifically speaking most of the starks can NOT be brought back because they been lying there for how long? somewhere between 8 to 15 tsd years?


most of them are so decompossed that there is nothing left to resurrect like white walkers resurrect the bodies of dead (perhaps without spirit in it) but if we are talking about spiritual return, then yeah they might be able to come back and go into animals.



But personally i dont think any of this is going to happen.


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scientifically speaking most of the starks can NOT be brought back because they been lying there for how long? somewhere between 8 to 15 tsd years?

most of them are so decompossed that there is nothing left to resurrect like white walkers resurrect the bodies of dead (perhaps without spirit in it) but if we are talking about spiritual return, then yeah they might be able to come back and go into animals.

But personally i dont think any of this is going to happen.

That's actually an interesting question, do the Others need a body or do they need the spirit?

My logic was that if a body is required, then the Starks needed to make sure their ancestors' spirits remained imprisoned in their graves until their bodies are fully decomposed and could not be resurrected. However, if you only need the spirit of a Stark King then Iron would actually work against you; you are trapping a large amount of spirits in one spot that could be turned in to enemy forces.

I think it means something totally different:

I believe that the Long Night didnt end with humans wining the war. I think the humans and the others made an agreement to end the war. And the Starks, as the kings of the north, made that particular agreement with the Others. Remember: In the early times they were called the Kings of Winter. That period of time was a full Winter, all over Westeros, hence they were the Kings (or the Leaders) of humanity in Westeros. I think that that agreement only holds if the Staks are still in Power or the Kings of the north. That's why it is important that there allways must be a Stark at Winterfell. The Staks have a very deep Connection to the Land of allways winter.We know from the books that the Knight's King was probablly a Stark. I believe that that was part of the agreement: the others dont invade westeros if the Starks give them their own Memebers, who then can lead the others.

If such a vital pact was made, wouldn't it make sense to make everyone aware of it? Why keep it a secret? But this theory might explain why joining the Night's Watch is such a popular thing for younger Starks. Technically, Benjen was their last offering since Jon is a Snow, perhaps that will be one of the reasons for an invasion.

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"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just Northerners being OCD.  There hasn't been a Stark in Winterfell for quite a few books, and the world's still turning.

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If that's the case, then why just their ancestors? Why not bring back every dead First Man that is buried nearby?
 
My personal theory was that the Stark Kings' spirits are imprisoned in their graves with iron swords so that they couldn't be summoned by the Night's King. The Wall was built by magic (or so the story goes) maybe some blood magic was involved and the only people who could undo it are the direct descendants of Bran the Builder, so it would be crucial to make sure the old Kings remain at peace or they could be used to bring down the last line of defense the North has. 

Some are not buried in the crypts

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There are ancestors of Brand the Builder who are not buried in the crypts. Lyana for one, and the Karstarks

Lyana is buried down there irc.

 

My theory is that it's part of the treaty between the Others/Singers and the First Men.

 

But the OP has a nice theory, with only two books left, I am not sure this one will be explained.

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If that's the case, then why just their ancestors? Why not bring back every dead First Man that is buried nearby?

 

My personal theory was that the Stark Kings' spirits are imprisoned in their graves with iron swords so that they couldn't be summoned by the Night's King. The Wall was built by magic (or so the story goes) maybe some blood magic was involved and the only people who could undo it are the direct descendants of Bran the Builder, so it would be crucial to make sure the old Kings remain at peace or they could be used to bring down the last line of defense the North has. 

 

Well, so far the dead that have risen are evil minions of the Others, so why would Eddard or Brandon or Robb...any dead Stark, Wull, Flint or any northerner somehow be good wrights?  We know the wrights are still evil south of the Wall b/c of the one that Jon slew that attacked Jeor Mormont.  And we know northerners can become wrights because, well, most of the wrights we've seen are likely northerners.

 

However, IF Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryen IS dead, Houston, we have a problem. . .

 

 

 

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...If such a vital pact was made, wouldn't it make sense to make everyone aware of it? Why keep it a secret? But this theory might explain why joining the Night's Watch is such a popular thing for younger Starks. Technically, Benjen was their last offering since Jon is a Snow, perhaps that will be one of the reasons for an invasion.

People would have prob been aware of the pact (if there was one) tens of thousands of years ago in the age of heroes.  if there was an agreement or they were just beaten back, this was surely when the wall would have been built, right?

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I think there is a correlated warding effect on the Wall with house Stark in Winterfell. The key is the crypts i think. The ancient, collapsed part has some secrets regarding the victory of Dawn over the Others. Now, the name itself, in the really far north, The Land of Always Winter seems to be where the Other's base is and they are the power of Winter. Winterfell must be built where they were defeated the first time which caused them to retreat back to where they came from. As long as a Stark is there in Winterfell and there is members of the Night's Watch on the wall and being faithful to their vows (hard to do even for the most honorable of them and most of them are murderers and rapists to begin with), a Stark from Winterfell ruling then the warding effect is in place. There is no Stark there so that must mean that the Night's Watch must hold the wall, they are depleted in numbers and all 3 strongholds are in danger. The Weeper has hundreds that may very well overrun the Shadow Tower to the West. Eastwatch just sent ships to evacuate Hardhome and that seems to be a dissaster per the letter Jon received  with things there unresolved and the wildings are not happy I am sure regarding what just happened to Jon. If the Night's watch is wiped out and no Stark in Winterfell, the Wall just might collapse and or the Others and wyte walkers could climb it or punch through it

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"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just Northerners being OCD.  There hasn't been a Stark in Winterfell for quite a few books, and the world's still turning.

 

I disagree. I think it will turn out that Benjen has been there secretly - rallying the north, resupplying through the crypts ,preparing to take WF from within.(Coming south from BR / CoTF , as Bran went north toward them.)

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scientifically speaking most of the starks can NOT be brought back because they been lying there for how long? somewhere between 8 to 15 tsd years?

most of them are so decompossed that there is nothing left to resurrect like white walkers resurrect the bodies of dead (perhaps without spirit in it) but if we are talking about spiritual return, then yeah they might be able to come back and go into animals.

 

But personally i dont think any of this is going to happen. 

 

Unless under the Winterfell is a special microclimate with a thousand well preserved mummies :)

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"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just Northerners being OCD.  There hasn't been a Stark in Winterfell for quite a few books, and the world's still turning.

I disagree, but differently than bemused (though I this is the first I've heard of Ben being down there...cool!).  The storm that's raging there seems to be originating from WF.  Many think it's bc there isn't a Stark in WF; that a pact has been broken. 

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I disagree. I think it will turn out that Benjen has been there secretly - rallying the north, resupplying through the crypts ,preparing to take WF from within.(Coming south from BR / CoTF , as Bran went north toward them.)


Oooh! Benjen in Winterfell! I hadn't considered that. Possibly sent by the CoTF as they knew Winterfell had become Stark-less and they know that means dire consequences.

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I've always liked the idea that "Winter is Coming" is a battle threat rather than a warning of hard times to come.  So the Starks of old summoned the powers of winter (the others) into battle with them and brought winter upon their enemies.

 

The Starks have the blood of the first men in them and have long forgotten ties to mystical creatures (the children of the forest and The Others) and objects (weirwoods, and The Wall).  I really like the idea that The Stark line has some sort of tie to The Others, maybe even in an old alliance sort of sense, though its been thousands of years since The Others were seen prior to the recent ASOIAF happenings.

 

I also really like the idea that "Winterfell" is the site of the final battle in The Long Night, where winter literally fell or was felled.  Perhaps by a Stark wielding their famous valyrian sword "Ice".  The name of the 2 seems pretty convenient.

 

Either way, I fully subscribe to the notion that the saying "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is more than just a meaningless phrase.  It reeks of old forgotten promises/prophecies.

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"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just Northerners being OCD.  There hasn't been a Stark in Winterfell for quite a few books, and the world's still turning.

Kinda always had the idea in my head that was part of the Wall staying up.

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