There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

[fightwookies]

I've always liked the idea that "Winter is Coming" is a battle threat rather than a warning of hard times to come.  So the Starks of old summoned the powers of winter (the others) into battle with them and brought winter upon their enemies.

 

The Starks have the blood of the first men in them and have long forgotten ties to mystical creatures (the children of the forest and The Others) and objects (weirwoods, and The Wall).  I really like the idea that The Stark line has some sort of tie to The Others, maybe even in an old alliance sort of sense, though its been thousands of years since The Others were seen prior to the recent ASOIAF happenings.

 

I also really like the idea that "Winterfell" is the site of the final battle in The Long Night, where winter literally fell or was felled.  Perhaps by a Stark wielding their famous valyrian sword "Ice".  The name of the 2 seems pretty convenient.

 

Either way, I fully subscribe to the notion that the saying "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is more than just a meaningless phrase.  It reeks of old forgotten promises/prophecies.

 

I like winterfell as the place of battle, but it wouldn't have been with the valyrian sword Ice. Those were given to the houses after the Targaryens took over Westeros

[Tharvot]

 

I like winterfell as the place of battle, but it wouldn't have been with the valyrian sword Ice. Those were given to the houses after the Targaryens took over Westeros

 

That's not correct.  Valyrian weapons were crafted in old valyria, predating the Targaryen conquest.  I don't recall reading anything saying they were gifts from Targs.  After the doom of valyria, the weapons became incredibly rare and valuable and no new blades have been crafted since.

[The Stranger.]

This idea came to me after a spliff so don't take it too seriously. It's more of a "oh man wouldn't that be cool" than a serious theory.

Okay, so, the idea - there must always be a Stark in Winterfell because when the Long Night falls upon Westeros a Stark must enter the crypts/godswood to summon the spirits of their fallen ancestors to come forth and help battle the Others. Fight Ice with Ice. Then return to their slumber once all is fine and dandy.
This idea of course is heavily influence by the Dead Men of Dunharrow from the Lotr. But hey, I'm all for Ned and Robb rising to do battle as ghostly spirits. Maybe we'd get a glimpse of Bran the Builder too.

Unlikely to happen, sure, but hey it's fun to fantasize about fantasy!

I have a better chance at meeting Rickard Stark in the mall tomorrow than for that to happen. At least you have imagination.

[fightwookies]

 

That's not correct.  Valyrian weapons were crafted in old valyria, predating the Targaryen conquest.  I don't recall reading anything saying they were gifts from Targs.  After the doom of valyria, the weapons became incredibly rare and valuable and no new blades have been crafted since.

I thought I read it somewhere, but can't find it to back it up. the wiki says Ice was forged about 400 years ago

[Grail King]

I thought I read it somewhere, but can't find it to back it up. the wiki says Ice was forged about 400 years ago

From wiki.

 

The name "Ice" is a legacy from the Age of Heroes, and predates the current sword. About four hundred years before Robert Baratheon's reign, the Valyrian steel greatsword was spell-forged in Valyria and acquired by the Starks, who named it after that legacy.^[2] It became the sword of the Lord of Winterfell. Eddard Stark used the sword to personally execute condemned prisoners.

 

Catelin states that the Valyrian sword is actually named after the original ICE which is much older i.e. AOH ICE.

[Sword of the Morgan]

It's unlikely, but not impossible. We've heard tales about the crypts keeping the spirits of the kings of winter at bay, so there's a reference point for this at least.

[Luddagain]

Hey

Bones can last for thousands - millions of years. Ever heard of a dinosaur skeleton. wspecially if it is icy cold in the lower levels - frozen starks rising up!!!!

[Masha]

 

That's actually an interesting question, do the Others need a body or do they need the spirit?

 

My logic was that if a body is required, then the Starks needed to make sure their ancestors' spirits remained imprisoned in their graves until their bodies are fully decomposed and could not be resurrected. However, if you only need the spirit of a Stark King then Iron would actually work against you; you are trapping a large amount of spirits in one spot that could be turned in to enemy forces.

 

If such a vital pact was made, wouldn't it make sense to make everyone aware of it? Why keep it a secret? But this theory might explain why joining the Night's Watch is such a popular thing for younger Starks. Technically, Benjen was their last offering since Jon is a Snow, perhaps that will be one of the reasons for an invasion.

Nights Watch many times didn't have Stark members and oftentimes they only had Stark Bastards aka Snow. So Others didn't get offended for 7 thousands years if there were generations of Nights Watch that didn't have Stark members for a period or just had a Stark bastards, but suddenly if Jon joined they did - it just doesn't make sense. Also, Others woke up and made their first move during the time that Benjen Stark was a member and Jon didn't even consider Nights Watch as on option. 

Also "Winter is Coming" can also be considered a Warning not a Threat, many Great Houses have words that are not a threat but a statement or their description of their family priorities - "We do not sow", "Family, Duty, Honor", "Growing Strong". Stark words could be considered a warning to both Westeros and themselves to never be complacent since winter always comes and one day the Others will come again during "long night" winter.

As for "there always must be a stark in winterfell", it doesn't have necessarily be some kind of supernatural or pact with the Others reason there. Just regular, there had been Starks in Winterfell for over 10k years so there "always must be a Stark" is a thing that Northmen expect of their Kings/Lords

 

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

Nights Watch many times didn't have Stark members and oftentimes they only had Stark Bastards aka Snow. So Others didn't get offended for 7 thousands years if there were generations of Nights Watch that didn't have Stark members for a period or just had a Stark bastards, but suddenly if Jon joined they did - it just doesn't make sense. Also, Others woke up and made their first move during the time that Benjen Stark was a member and Jon didn't even consider Nights Watch as on option. 

 

 

 

Benjen was in the NW for less than 15 years, Crastor has been sacrificing sons a lot longer than that, since many of his daughter wives are much older.

[Masha]

Benjen was in the NW for less than 15 years, Crastor has been sacrificing sons a lot longer than that, since many of his daughter wives are much older.

Even so. It still breaks the theory that the Others came back because instead of legitimate Stark like Benjen it was Jon Snow, the bastard, who joined the Night Watch, thus breaking "the pact" between Starks and the Others if there ever was one.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Even so. It still breaks the theory that the Others came back because instead of legitimate Stark like Benjen it was Jon Snow, the bastard, who joined the Night Watch, thus breaking "the pact" between Starks and the Others if there ever was one.

Certainly.  That's clearly not a valid theory.

[Aetta]

If that's the case, then why just their ancestors? Why not bring back every dead First Man that is buried nearby?

 

 

 

My personal theory was that the Stark Kings' spirits are imprisoned in their graves with iron swords so that they couldn't be summoned by the Night's King. The Wall was built by magic (or so the story goes) maybe some blood magic was involved and the only people who could undo it are the direct descendants of Bran the Builder, so it would be crucial to make sure the old Kings remain at peace or they could be used to bring down the last line of defense the North has.

So interesting, I had not thought of the implications here.  If the NIght's King/Others raise the recently dead, who's to say they don't raise the long dead? 

I am not certain on the point of the swords, though, of the Stark kings, 'cause if they're not Valyrian steel or dragonglass, they wouldn't stop the Others.  Lyanna doesn't have a sword, she has a direwolf, and there are as someone mentioned, three swordless kings.

Carry it a step further into the rabbit hole, and it could be Lyanna herself that reveals Jon's lineage should she be "raised". And interestingly, Targaryens traditionally creamate, which would prevent wighting of a Targaryen. When Daenerys takes her trip into Dragonmount (part of my pet theory with Dany as a Surtr-like player) perhaps she'll learn how to raise an army of dragons).

 

 

[Lady_maester]

So interesting, I had not thought of the implications here.  If the NIght's King/Others raise the recently dead, who's to say they don't raise the long dead? 

I am not certain on the point of the swords, though, of the Stark kings, 'cause if they're not Valyrian steel or dragonglass, they wouldn't stop the Others.  Lyanna doesn't have a sword, she has a direwolf, and there are as someone mentioned, three swordless kings.

Carry it a step further into the rabbit hole, and it could be Lyanna herself that reveals Jon's lineage should she be "raised". And interestingly, Targaryens traditionally creamate, which would prevent wighting of a Targaryen. When Daenerys takes her trip into Dragonmount (part of my pet theory with Dany as a Surtr-like player) perhaps she'll learn how to raise an army of dragons).

 

 

old nan said others and wights hate iron in GoT when telling Bran a story

[ssls6]

Many things to consider concerning the Starks and the Others.

 

The Story opens with the Others slaying a Wildling camp.  Why? Why now? Does that happen often?  I got the sense that the opening scene was to say "The Others have returned".  I have often pondered the significance of the opening scene.  Much later we learn that Craster has been giving his sons to the Others for some time.....many years.  That says to me that the Others did not just "wake up" so with the opening scene that caused me to think "maybe the Wildlings have grown so numerous that the Others have had enough".  The problem with my thinking is that it doesn't ring true with the Other appearing to be motivated beyond just thinning the Wildling numbers.

 

I do think there was some sort of Pack between the Starks and Others back in the age of heros.  I don't know if the Wall was to protect the North or just to divide the territory.  I also think the Starks have a touch of Other blood just as the Targs have a touch of dragon blood.  I would not be surprised to learn that dragons/comets/magic growing stronger coincides with the Others growing stronger.

 

"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just a condensed way of saying "we have a pack to uphold" without any modern Stark knowing what the pack was all about.  The Nights Watch loves to kill Wildlings, maybe with their reduced numbers of the years they have been doing a poor job of it.

[Mandzipop]

My thought has always been that there is a similar type of magic built into the walls of Winterfell as there is in the wall itself. A type of ice magic. However this ice magic only works in Winterfell if there is a Stark present. So the Others can attack Winterfell if there is no Stark present, if there is then the Others can't get in.

[Gala]

I think it means something totally different:

I believe that the Long Night didnt end with humans wining the war. I think the humans and the others made an agreement to end the war. And the Starks, as the kings of the north, made that particular agreement with the Others. Remember: In the early times they were called the Kings of Winter. That period of time was a full Winter, all over Westeros, hence they were the Kings (or the Leaders) of humanity in Westeros. I think that that agreement only holds if the Staks are still in Power or the Kings of the north. That's why it is important that there allways must be a Stark at Winterfell. The Staks have a very deep Connection to the Land of allways winter.We know from the books that the Knight's King was probablly a Stark. I believe that that was part of the agreement: the others dont invade westeros if the Starks give them their own Memebers, who then can lead the others.

Here, I agree a lot! But I think that there is something more serious connected to Stark blood with the whole Wall and Winterfell stuff.

"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is just Northerners being OCD.  There hasn't been a Stark in Winterfell for quite a few books, and the world's still turning.

Strangely, but the whole thing, including war and stuff, is luckily coincident with Stark's demise. I mean the plot (Lf's mostly) to bring down Ned, which ended up in the massive Civil war, coincides with the Others active moves (Jon Arryn's death and Will and rangers North of the Wall, for example). Personally, I think that there is a connection between Others and Starks. So may be, the world could stop turning at some point. I intentionally do not bring Dany in here, but her role's is definitely important too, I think.

[cutuphalfdead]

Yeah but the first prologue has the others coming back before robert even gets to winterfell and the whole thing starts.

[evita mgfs]

On 7/6/2015 at 2:50 PM, RileyJones said:

This idea came to me after a spliff so don't take it too seriously. It's more of a "oh man wouldn't that be cool" than a serious theory.

 

Okay, so, the idea - there must always be a Stark in Winterfell because when the Long Night falls upon Westeros a Stark must enter the crypts/godswood to summon the spirits of their fallen ancestors to come forth and help battle the Others. Fight Ice with Ice. Then return to their slumber once all is fine and dandy.

This idea of course is heavily influence by the Dead Men of Dunharrow from the Lotr. But hey, I'm all for Ned and Robb rising to do battle as ghostly spirits. Maybe we'd get a glimpse of Bran the Builder too.

 

Unlikely to happen, sure, but hey it's fun to fantasize about fantasy!

I have always had a secret desire for the Starks rising, but I conceived that Bran, as part of the living magic that built Winterfell, will engage the spirits and enable them to embody their stone statues so that the "stone Stark army" will rise to battle.

[aryagonnakill#2]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 10:37 AM, Mandzipop said:

My thought has always been that there is a similar type of magic built into the walls of Winterfell as there is in the wall itself. A type of ice magic. However this ice magic only works in Winterfell if there is a Stark present. So the Others can attack Winterfell if there is no Stark present, if there is then the Others can't get in.

I agree with this.  Old Nan says that the power of the wall only holds so long as the men of the watch hold true to their vows.  So the magic of the wall is conditional.  This same type of condition could apply to there needing to be a Stark in Winterfell for its magic to work.

[JonisHenryTudor]

On 8/7/2015 at 9:53 PM, bemused said:

 

I disagree. I think it will turn out that Benjen has been there secretly - rallying the north, resupplying through the crypts ,preparing to take WF from within.(Coming south from BR / CoTF , as Bran went north toward them.)

Awesome idea. I figured that he may be inside, but never really considered to what capacity. 

 

On 1/6/2016 at 0:02 PM, cutuphalfdead said:

Yeah but the first prologue has the others coming back before robert even gets to winterfell and the whole thing starts.

Hmm here is an off-handed idea. Could it be that the Others discovered Ned's secret? Could they fear Jon? Just an idea.