TheFourthKnife Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Now to be honest I never believed or liked the idea of Jon Warging after his stabbing. I've always just hoped that it would be ok Jon does and melisandre is just like I'm gonna bring this fella back. However after rereading Dance I have to say that it is improbable that he won't. Yes I picked up on the signs of Jon and his ever increasing connection to his wolf but I always chalked it up to the idea that they are both of the north and the Stark connection to the direwolf. My belief was as winter draws closer magical things become stronger and maybe that's why Arya is Warging into cats and shit.. As with melisandre'a power. But there are two instances that changed my belief on this. One was melisandre's vision of Jon as a man then a beast or whatever word she used I believe it was beast and then Man again. Now she's known to be wrong but she's nailed Jon visions on the head I believe so far. (If I'm wrong forgive me). What really stood out for me was in my prologue reread. Where varamyr speaks of death as being warm and pleasant. I believe it mightve been just his speculation as he has never had a true death but he still mentions it being warm and comforting. As he wargs though he feels a shock of cold. As with the last lines of Jon's final chapter he never felt the fourth knife only the cold. Well yes he probably died or his body will bleed out but is it that he never felt that fourth knife because he was feeling the cold of leaving his body for his direwolf's. Sorry if I've touched upon an already beat upon subject. Just wanted some outside perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerWalterPuffsAlot Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 In general i think people feel Jon will warg into Ghost and then be revived by Mel but he wont "lose a part " of himself like Dondarrion did because he warged and didnt really die. And as far as winter bringing back power it sounds cool but i'd be inclined to disagree because a lot of these people have seen winters before with no mention of any powers arising. But this is pretty much the big question through out the book whats bringing the White walkers and the old magics back into play. Maybe its the red comet, and even tho it doesnt appear in the 1st book maybe they have a better view in the far north and could see it coming. who freaking knows!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madam Guillotine Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I was under the impression that magic was returning to Westeros because of Dany's dragons. Doesn't Quaithe tell her so at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarm Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I was under the impression that magic was returning to Westeros because of Dany's dragons. Doesn't Quaithe tell her so at some point? Its a common belief and that is what Quaithe says, but whether she's anymore reliable than anyone else is still up to debate. She's just as likely to make mistakes or assumptions as anyone else when talking about magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madam Guillotine Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yes, of course, it is like that with most prophecies and magic. Quaithe does seems more reliable than most, though; she successfully predicted the coming of the pale mare, the lion, the griffin, etc etc etc. Maybe if we knew more about her we would be able to judge her reliability better. Also I keep searching for the quote but now I can't find it anywhere. :dunno: Perhaps she doesn't say that after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slant Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 think warging has something to do with weirwoord trees, and the trees have to be present. At least Bloodraven is proof that the north had some kind of effective magic even before Dany's Dragons. Also, would be strange to have so many wargs only in the north. when Snow was dying, it was getting cold. All we know is white walkers bring cold with them, so yes, it is probable they are there. But it could play out in various ways. Think that there is something more to direwolves than boars, cats, wolves and goats. Maybe Summer had a role in saving Bran from that fall, and in a similar way Ghost may have some role in Jon's survival, other than warging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madam Guillotine Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 That's true, Slant. And Melisandre has said that her power is even greater at the wall (a.k.a the north!), hence why she doesn't leave it in the books when Stannis marches on Winterfell. As for the warging, basically all the Stark children, and by extension Jon, are wargs. Bran is the most powerful of them, but that's also because he is a greenseer so it sort of supes everything up. I think Arya and Jon are at about the same ability, but they don't understand it quite like Bran does—although I think Jon understands more than even Arya. I'm not too sure about Sansa and Lady, because we didn't really have a chance to see that connection bloom, and I know that Rickon claimed he had a wolf dream but he's so young and certainly doesn't understand. I'm still up in the air about Robb. I'm not sure how great of a warg he was, but either way, when he was killed so was Grey Wind. :dunno: I definitely, DEFINITELY, think the power has something to do with The North in general. So then it's a question of . . . are the White Walkers coming because of the dragons? Or are the dragons coming because of the White Walkers?! Dun dun dun . . . Sorry this post is all over the place, I'm just throwing my two cents out there and replying to everybody as well. When Jon says it's cold, it could very well mean the Others are there, but it could also mean that he's leaving his body. I guess we shall see . . . Edited for one more comment: also keep in mind that in the books . . . the last thing Jon whispers is "Ghost." Curiouser and curiouser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It may just be cumulative. A magickal season, as it were. The cold comes, the others come and the dragons with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madam Guillotine Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I think the lack of magic-acceptance or practice in Westeros in general has a lot to do with the maesters. The maesters are more so about healing through science. They did not like the idea of magic, so in Westeros it isn't as prominent. However, in other places, like north of The Wall and in Essos magic isn't so taboo and unheard of. You have the Children of the Forest who are still around north of the Wall, as well as giants, wargs and other such creatures. Also the Others, which are a given. Then in Essos you have the dragons, the red priests/priestesses, people like Quaithe, the glass candles, warlocks . . . The Starks being wargs at all made people distrust them because Westeros isn't used to such abilities. So you're probably right, Squire. The magic is growing stronger somehow, probably because of all the factors involved, and thus it is now leaking into Westeros because . . . well, how could it not?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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