Rhom Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well, I've reached the conclusion that the publishing industry is bizarre and opaque. :dunce:I'd say that's a fair conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks for your insight Wert. Don't Overlook have an obligation to provide a product/service they've already been paid for though? A lot of this runs through financial years, so Bakker being paid an advance in 2003/04 (for the original trilogy) and 2008/09 (for the new trilogy) means they're years out of synch on getting a return for those amounts. If TJE and TWP earned back Overlook's advance to Bakker, they're not out of pocket on the project and TUC will just be pure profit. It might not be a lot of profit for them, however, which acts as a discincentive to get the book out ahead of other works they might consider to be more profitable or, crazily, books which may be much less profitable but they want to get a return on much sooner. There's certainly a contract in place between Bakker and Overlook which requires Overlook to publish the book unless they invoke a cancellation clause (the books haven't sold enough, Bakker's handed the book in far too late etc), but the time limit for the publisher to release the final book may be extraordinarily generous (anything up to ten years). This is actually a two-way street as it helps very late authors not lose their contract even when they are over deadline, and may have worked in his favour when TUC was delivered quite a bit late. Unfortunately, it's simply not uncommon for publishers to sit on completed books - even ones by bestselling authors - for years before publishing them. J.V. Jones found that out when she delivered A Sword from Red Ice three years late and then had to wait another two years for it to come out, and that was quite a big-selling series at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Do you know if publishers are making increased use of the kind of metrics that social media like facebook, reddit and good-reads provide? What do you think are good ways to engage attention in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peadar Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 It's not uncommon for part of the money to be paid to the author on publication or on "delivery", rather than when they first sign. "Delivery" can mean to time that Bakker hands over the manuscript, or it can mean the time he has handed over a manuscript that Overlook consider acceptable. In other words, if the series isn't selling very well, publishing it, or appointing an editor who declares it "acceptable" might trigger a payment to the author. Depends what's in the contract, I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Do you know if publishers are making increased use of the kind of metrics that social media like facebook, reddit and good-reads provide? Big publishers are, yes. A small one like Overlook probably uses its Facebook and Twitter and that's about it. Publishing in general has been slow to respond to how social media works and in fact has encouraged its authors to get out there and engage directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well WLW was published in 2011, Bakker handed in the manuscript in Jan '15. So this could be a case of the publisher sitting on it to prove a point. Bakker said on his blog not long ago that he is notoriously bad at deadlines. Who knows.Yet I still can't shake this image of a publisher dude (Peter Mayer?) sitting in his NYC studio with a sniiffer and a Cuban. Reading through the emails of various Bakker fans, and laughing. "I'll show this Canadian professor what happens when you play games with Peter Mayer! He won't be late on TSTSNBN! Email, Tweet and Facebook to your hearts desire Bakker Fans. The Precious is going Nowhere!!!!!" Cue the evil laugh and fade to black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well WLW was published in 2011, Bakker handed in the manuscript in Jan '15. So this could be a case of the publisher sitting on it to prove a point. Bakker said on his blog not long ago that he is notoriously bad at deadlines. Who knows.Yet I still can't shake this image of a publisher dude (Peter Mayer?) sitting in his NYC studio with a sniiffer and a Cuban. Reading through the emails of various Bakker fans, and laughing. "I'll show this Canadian professor what happens when you play games with Peter Mayer! He won't be late on TSTSNBN! Email, Tweet and Facebook to your hearts desire Bakker Fans. The Precious is going Nowhere!!!!!" Cue the evil laugh and fade to black. Reading the link Kalbear provided, it's clear that Bakker is far from the exception at Overlook concerning delayed books and ambiguous publishing dates. This seems to be a common pattern, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Reading the link Kalbear provided, it's clear that Bakker is far from the exception at Overlook concerning delayed books and ambiguous publishing dates. This seems to be a common pattern, actually.Yea, I understand that. And its just an image after reading this stuff. I don't claim its true. But, when your dealing with people on a personal level, maybe somebody was rubbed the wrong way, who knows? Here is what I don't begin to even understand. Why doesn't Overlook just issue a statement? I know Bakker might not be a big concern of theirs. Yet, their customers have been emailing about their product and mums the word. And this from a small publishing house that you would think, would want to keep their customers happy. I'll admit, its just a world I don't understand and don't really care to. I just want the damn book and not petty games. Which unfortunately, is what this business seems to be full of.ETA: I mean it cost ZERO $'s to put a post on Twitter or Facebook. And, would ease a lot of minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 They probably just don't give a fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 They probably just don't give a fuck.Without a doubt. Its where all the signs point to. And, in some way I can see why. Most fans wouldn't not buy the book because of this. Their in control and could give a shit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End of Disc One Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 We can speculate all we want. My baseless speculation: After all the turnover, Overlook is now under a puritanical leadership who were appalled by what they read in TUC. They will hold on to the rights and not publish the book for the good of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 My theory is they handed the new editor the manuscript and he had never read any Bakker before,. Can you image just handing someone TUC and going hey edit this? Poor man is probably in a mental ward. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Why doesn't Overlook just issue a statement?Because this is about as small potatoes and about a small a concern as they have. This is a publishing house that doesn't typically do fiction - and when they do it's often titles that have lapsed (like True Grit) or titles from well-known authors going in a different way (the author of Artemis Fowl did a non-YA title, frex). They focus on doing primarily nonfiction, historical books and quite a few of them apparently start as concepts from Peter Mayer himself. Overlook probably doesn't have more than a dozen employees. They are (from the glassdoor reviews) clearly overworked, switched around heavily and are likely working primarily on the things that the owners want them to first and foremost. The last book in a series that hasn't been seen in 5 years and doesn't make them much money is probably just not a priority for them. That doesn't mean they don't care - it just means they care more about other things that are more important. I doubt that the editor has done more than glance at the book unless they were a huge fan. Editors have a shit ton of work to do. They're not going to spend time just idly reading a book that isn't their assignment. Really, what the responses we've gotten from Overlook indicate seem to be the reasonable conclusion: this isn't a high priority for them, it likely won't be, there could be a strong turnaround if a slot opens up, but they have more important (to that publisher) work to do and this isn't a big deal to them. Another way to say it is this: Peter Mayer appears to take bets on publications and is hoping to hit it big here and there. My gut feeling is that he considers this - a book 5 years later, with declining sales and not nearly as much buzz and with a writer who appears to not have a whole lot of interest in self-promotion or taking his advice in selling books - as something of a losing bet. And Overlook is under zero obligation to anyone to do more than what they need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolivar Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Probably but I like the image of the editor in the mental ward and Pete Mayer with the cognac snifter better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yea, their in control and couldn't give a shit less. But, your telling me that responding to the tweets on their account is gonna constitute a lot of their time? Its just bad business management. I know they have no responsibility to do so, but that doesn't make it right, or OK to ignore it. About as much sense a DeAndre Jordan has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 But, your telling me that responding to the tweets on their account is gonna constitute a lot of their time?Doing an official response? Yes, it takes up a lot of time for a business, especially one that doesn't have a social media manager or team. In this day and age it is far better to say nothing on the internet than it is to say the wrong thing. Especially if there are any legal obligations that said tweet might imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well, at least the Kindle editions are back up. If I remember correctly, they were taken down at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 We can speculate all we want. My baseless speculation: After all the turnover, Overlook is now under a puritanical leadership who were appalled by what they read in TUC. They will hold on to the rights and not publish the book for the good of humanity. Taking the earlier analogy a step further, Overlook thus become the Mandate. Bakker himself as Mog Pharau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Doing an official response? Yes, it takes up a lot of time for a business, especially one that doesn't have a social media manager or team. In this day and age it is far better to say nothing on the internet than it is to say the wrong thing. Especially if there are any legal obligations that said tweet might imply. Yes, I believe its called "pulling a Bakker". :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 double post. uh Hail Satan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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