StarkofWinterfell Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So the most well known one is "Snow," and there are others like "Waters" and "Stone" but I can't think of any for bastards born in Dorne. Does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So the most well known one is "Snow," and there are others like "Waters" and "Stone" but I can't think of any for bastards born in Dorne. Does anyone know? Sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sand. Thanks for that. Assuming R+L=J is correct, then would it be Jon Sand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 These are all the highborn bastard surnames matched with regions. The North - SnowThe Westerlands - HillThe Iron Islands - PykeThe Riverlands - RiversThe Vale - StoneThe Crownlands - WatersThe Reach - FlowersThe Stormlands - StormDorne - Sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thanks for that. Assuming R+L=J is correct, then would it be Jon Sand? No actually the surname is based on the region in which the bastard was raised rather than their birth location. So Jon would still be Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It depends, is it the homeland of your parents, the place you grow up, or the place you are born in? I believe R married L, but if he did not, I would like to know his last name. I would guess the place you were raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire Dawg Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thanks for that. Assuming R+L=J is correct, then would it be Jon Sand? I don't know if it is 100% certain that where you are born matters, or if it where your parents are from or where you are raised. i don't think there are hard rules around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Suddenly I'm curious about this system of naming all bastards after their region of origin. Does it have any precedence in human history at all or is it purely from GRRM's mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 He could either be Jon Sand, Jon Waters (if he was taken to King's Landing), or the conventional Jon Snow. Interesting to think how his life could've been in the other two regions. Would he be legitimized? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefollowthecomet Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 He could either be Jon Sand, Jon Waters (if he was taken to King's Landing), or the conventional Jon Snow. Interesting to think how his life could've been in the other two regions. Would he be legitimized? Who knows. Maybe he could get a cool nickname like the sand snakes. I wonder why bastards are named after the region they are born in, and not the region their parents are from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saer Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's the point of bastadry, that there's uncertainty over parentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefollowthecomet Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's the point of bastadry, that there's uncertainty over parentage. There is uncertainty over Jon's parentage. To be a bastard just means your parents weren't married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolishOwl Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It's curious, though, that we've had this specifically spelled out and detailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Suddenly I'm curious about this system of naming all bastards after their region of origin. Does it have any precedence in human history at all or is it purely from GRRM's mind?For most of medieval French and English history, most highborn people had geographical names based on where they were born, not house names1. And even in other parts of Europe, where there were better ways to disambiguate people (like patronymics), they still relied on geographic names when necessary, especially for foreigners. Most of them were more direct than cutesy--Winchester or d'Anjou or Kiev--but there were some people named d'Isle from Paris, or Ice from the Orkneys, which aren't too far from Rivers or Snow. But they weren't special names for bastards; bastards got geographical names only because everyone did. EDIT: fixing f-ing footnote formatting 1 In the 15th century, everyone started naming the great house, and retroactively applying them as last names, so records stop talking about, e.g., Edward Caernarfon or Edward of Wales and start talking about Edward Plantagenet the Younger. But it's the same guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I don't know if it is 100% certain that where you are born matters, or if it where your parents are from or where you are raised. i don't think there are hard rules around it. It's more where you live. Robert was parent to Mya Stone and Edric Storm for example. If it was the father they'd all be Storms across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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