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Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10102

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Great analysis Lost Melnibonean.  
 
I think Jamie's defense to charges that he killed Aerys is a good one.  We've seen with Ned that "honor" carried too far can be bad things.  I think the same thing applies to oaths.  Faced with killing Aerys or watching the entire  city burn (and having to kill his father to boot), I can't fault  him for the choice he made.
 
Now the death of the children (and wife) is completely different matter.  To the extent that he could have at least tried to prevent those  and didn't, yeah, I think he was at fault.  I really don't know the time line though  as to when he killed Aerys and when Tywin's men killed the queen and the children.  But if he could have tried to save them, even at the cost of his own life or estrangement from his father I think he had a duty to do that.

Whether Jaime was truly at fault for the deaths of the wee Targaryens is not relevant if Jaime feels guilty for having failed Rhaegar.

ETA

I have no doubt that Bloodraven is setting Jaime up to back the claim of Rhaegar's son, and that Jaime will believe Jon Connington. I have no doubt that he is Cersei's valonqar, and that Brienne is the one younger and more beautiful than Cersei.

Of course, I don't think Aegon could allow Jaime to enter his service. I think Jaime will be allowed to take the black as The Ned wanted and as this foreshadows...

The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black.

Catelyn X, Game 63

Bloodraven is associated with the moon in Jon I, Dance 3. During a Jon/Ghost wolfdream, the moon calls to Ghost, "Snow." When Jon awakes, he realizes Jeor's raven has been calling to him, "Snow."

The irony would be having Jaime serve Rhaegar's heir and Eddard Stark's adopted son in the War for the Dawn.

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Because anything else than what he did, would have led to the death of Sansa. And that was what Ned was trying to prevent.

 

Yes, that is probably the case.. and Joffery wasn't one for the letter of the law, but if he had been given a trial by combat and won, wouldn't Sansa also be considered free of any crime?

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Yes, that is probably the case.. and Joffery wasn't one for the letter of the law, but if he had been given a trial by combat and won, wouldn't Sansa also be considered free of any crime?

 

Ned was unable to stand by himself, two gold cloaks were needed to hold him upright.

 

How would he have been able to win a trial by combat?

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Ned was unable to stand by himself, two gold cloaks were needed to hold him upright.

 

How would he have been able to win a trial by combat?

 

Champion?

 

I assume Joffery would ask for a champion as well. If he could be found, Barristan might have stood as champion for Ned. With Jamie captured, Ned would have had a chance to go free.

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I am currently re-reading GoT, and a few things have stood out for me. One of which is Benjen's actions after Jon's admission that he wishes to join the Knight's Watch. In Catelyn II, Maester Luwin says that Benjen came to him "a few days ago" to discuss Jon's ambition.

 

To me, this raises a couple of key questions:

 

1) Why did Benjen go to Maester Luwin, and not to Ned - Jon's father?

2) IF you believe that R+L=J, what does this say about Benjen's knowledge on the subject of Jon's parentage - does Benjen know who Jon's mother is?

 

To be honest, the latter got me thinking about whether Benjen knows about Jon's parentage regardless of whether or not R+L=J. 

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Yes, that is probably the case.. and Joffery wasn't one for the letter of the law, but if he had been given a trial by combat and won, wouldn't Sansa also be considered free of any crime?

The Ned was in no shape to fight. Any champion would have had to face Sandor.

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I am currently re-reading GoT, and a few things have stood out for me. One of which is Benjen's actions after Jon's admission that he wishes to join the Knight's Watch. In Catelyn II, Maester Luwin says that Benjen came to him "a few days ago" to discuss Jon's ambition.
 
To me, this raises a couple of key questions:
 
1) Why did Benjen go to Maester Luwin, and not to Ned - Jon's father?
2) IF you believe that R+L=J, what does this say about Benjen's knowledge on the subject of Jon's parentage - does Benjen know who Jon's mother is?
 
To be honest, the latter got me thinking about whether Benjen knows about Jon's parentage regardless of whether or not R+L=J. 

Yhose are not really small questions. But in any event, the Ned was very busy entertaining the King, and Benjen may have simply sought an objective opinion on Jon's readiness and interest in the Night's Watch.

New Question: why was Shireen's sadness Cressen's failure?

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Yhose are not really small questions. But in any event, the Ned was very busy entertaining the King, and Benjen may have simply sought an objective opinion on Jon's readiness and interest in the Night's Watch.

New Question: why was Shireen's sadness Cressen's failure?

I would assume because he was unable to completely cure her greyscale.

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Why does Jorah always want to speak to Dany alone? Why was he inferring to Viserys even right at the beginning to wait in Pentos while Khal and Dany finished their wedding tour? 

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Why does Jorah always want to speak to Dany alone? Why was he inferring to Viserys even right at the beginning to wait in Pentos while Khal and Dany finished their wedding tour? 

 

Because she looks like the wife he lost and he is seriously attracted to her.

 

Yes, I believe Jorah knew no good would come from Viserys tagging along.

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^Thoros tells Beric that if he brings him back a 7th time that he will die, and Arya and Brienne comment about how he looks like a skeleton.  Stannis appearance changes after the shadow babies as well, and Melissandre thinks he could not survive making another.  If we add it all up imo, part of Thoros paid for part of Beric, as Beric kept his scars and did not remember his full life, he was singularly driven by his final task and could not remember his family.

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I would assume because he was unable to completely cure her greyscale.

But he saved her. He couldn't have reversed it, could he?

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^Thoros tells Beric that if he brings him back a 7th time that he will die, and Arya and Brienne comment about how he looks like a skeleton.  Stannis appearance changes after the shadow babies as well, and Melissandre thinks he could not survive making another.  If we add it all up imo, part of Thoros paid for part of Beric, as Beric kept his scars and did not remember his full life, he was singularly driven by his final task and could not remember his family.

Makes sense. Thank you

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Why does Jorah always want to speak to Dany alone? Why was he inferring to Viserys even right at the beginning to wait in Pentos while Khal and Dany finished their wedding tour? 

We are told Illyrio wanted Viserys to remain in Pentos. Jorah was apparently doing his bidding. When Drogo died Jorah urged Daenerys to go with him to Asshai so they could take ship to Pentos.

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But LM, he doesn't realize that they actually are until he is told.

No that scene is before he peels the egg. It's from the morning after Dunk allows Egg to attend him as squire.

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^Thoros tells Beric that if he brings him back a 7th time that he will die, and Arya and Brienne comment about how he looks like a skeleton.  Stannis appearance changes after the shadow babies as well, and Melissandre thinks he could not survive making another.  If we add it all up imo, part of Thoros paid for part of Beric, as Beric kept his scars and did not remember his full life, he was singularly driven by his final task and could not remember his family.

The way Drogo is revived is not similar to Beric ans Catelyn. Drogo became am empty shell. Beric became less and less himself after every death, and Catelyn shows what happens when the revival takes places days after death.

Brienne, IIRC, never met Beric.

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