Small Questions v. 10102

[Avlonnic]

Once Lord Beric Dondarrion died, after each life he remembered less and less of his life before as a Lord. He seems to serve only one mission: to protect the smallfolk/rid the realm of outlaws (which was he was decreed by Ned when he was hand of the king).

 

My question is, with the above in mind, why did he give his life for Catelyn Tully? How does that fit in with his current mindset? It seems to contradict what he has been doing with the Brotherhood without Banners.

 

I believe Beric gave his life for Catlyn because he promised Arya he would reunite her with her mother.

 

  From ASOS, Arya VII:

Lord Beric sighed. ". . . I do not have the power to give you back your father, no more than Thoros does, but I can at least see that you are returned safely to your mother's arms."
"Do you swear?" she asked him. Yoren had promised to take her home too, only he'd gotten killed instead.
"On my honor as a knight," the lightning lord said solemnly. 

 

  A Feast for Crows - Brienne VIII

Thoros of Myr: . . . When we found her by the river she was three days dead. Harwin begged me to give her the kiss of life, but it had been too long. I would not do it, so Lord Beric put his lips to hers instead, and the flame of life passed from him to her. 

 

 

~  Lord Beric swore an oath to Arya.  Thoros refused to revive Cat so Beric tried (complete his knightly oath or die trying.)  I think his oath to Arya was the more recent oath and the most immediate one, upon finding Cat's body.  But it introduces us to the idea that "the flame of life" can be passed from one recipient to another without a Red R'hllor ritual.  It also underlines that resurrection requires a payment (of life or life force) regardless.  Very intriguing.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yes, he's a cruel psychopath that threatened his young sibling with castration, so he won't be a male anymore, and then he would marry him and use him like a girl.
 
I know it's difficult to wrap your brains around, but your reading about the threats of a young psychopath, the logic only has to make sense in his head.

I will try harder. Thanks for your help.

[spoon89]

We know nothing of the age-gap between Aegon and Rhae, as far as I can recall..

 

DaE: THK

.... I remember, when I was little, he used to come into my bedchamber at night and put his knife between my legs. He had too many brothers, he'd say, maybe one night he'd make me his sister, then he could marry me....

 

So we know that the threat was made to Egg when he was old enough to remember it and that the threat only makes sense prior to Rhae's birth (otherwise there are two sisters).

 

I doubt that Egg would remember such a threat so vividly if he were under the age of four or five years old, I doubt he would truly comprehend it unless he were a couple years older than that.

[spoon89]

I will try harder. Thanks for your help.

 

I did mean no offense, it's difficult at times to understand or comprehend psychotic thought processes, especially when they are well written.

 

I find reading Cersei POVs as she seems to be sliding towards madness and paranoia difficult at times, just imagine what a Joffrey POV chapter would look like.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

 
DaE: THK
.... I remember, when I was little, he used to come into my bedchamber at night and put his knife between my legs. He had too many brothers, he'd say, maybe one night he'd make me his sister, then he could marry me....
 
So we know that the threat was made to Egg when he was old enough to remember it and that the threat only makes sense prior to Rhae's birth (otherwise there are two sisters).
 
I doubt that Egg would remember such a threat so vividly if he were under the age of four or five years old, I doubt he would truly comprehend it unless he were a couple years older than that.

I'm sorry, but that quote says nothing about an age gap. Daella was a year older than Aegon, so Aerion did have a sister.
Rhae, in any scenario, would have been too youg for Aerion, presumably. Or, he'd have to wait quite a few more years.

To me, this is just a show of his cruelty.

[Lost Melnibonean]

 
I did mean no offense, it's difficult at times to understand or comprehend psychotic thought processes, especially when they are well written.
 
I find reading Cersei POVs as she seems to be sliding towards madness and paranoia difficult at times, just imagine what a Joffrey POV chapter would look like.

No worries, Dude. I understood what you meant. I was just needling you. I do think The George may not have had an older sister for Egg when he wrote The Hedge Knight.

[spoon89]

I'm sorry, but that quote says nothing about an age gap. Daella was a year older than Aegon, so Aerion did have a sister.
Rhae, in any scenario, would have been too youg for Aerion, presumably. Or, he'd have to wait quite a few more years.

To me, this is just a show of his cruelty.

 

I think it's pretty clear that Daella alone was not enough, Aerion wanted two sister wives, like the old Valyrians and the Conquerer.

[Avlonnic]

 

DaE: THK

.... I remember, when I was little, he used to come into my bedchamber at night and put his knife between my legs. He had too many brothers, he'd say, maybe one night he'd make me his sister, then he could marry me....

 

So we know that the threat was made to Egg when he was old enough to remember it and that the threat only makes sense prior to Rhae's birth (otherwise there are two sisters).

 

I doubt that Egg would remember such a threat so vividly if he were under the age of four or five years old, I doubt he would truly comprehend it unless he were a couple years older than that.

 

The Sworn Sword:

Egg to Dunk:  "And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so I'd marry her instead of my sister Daella." 

 

~~ Daella was definitely around before Egg left to be a squire at 8 years old.

[spoon89]

Egg to Dunk:  "And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so I'd marry her instead of my sister Daella." 

 

~~ Daella was definitely around before Egg left to be a squire at 8 years old.

 

Closes that age gap window somewhat. :thumbsup: 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Aegon went to court at the age of seven, presumably (spend two years at court, and left to squire for Dunk at the age of 9). There's no mention of Daella and Rhae having been present at Daeron's court at that time, so he love potion incident will have occured before that. Rhae would have needed to be old enough to understand what she was doing, so I'd say she's rather close in age to Aegon (1-2 years). If the girls lived at court as well, than perhaps even 3. Not (much) more, I'd guess.

[Purity]

inb4: I know many of you do not like Preston Jacobs' work at all (I tend to find many of his theories rather absurd myself, most of the times). Yet, we do have to give it to him that he doesn put a lot of work on whatever he does. Having said that...

 

Yesterday, I was re-watching Preston Jacobs' videos about the Tower of Joy, where he defends R+L= D and A+B=J

 

I do find it odd that Ned took Lyanna's remains with him, but not Dayne's, even tough he was planning on passing by Starfall for returning Dawn to the family anyway. Is there any crackpot on how Arthur Dayne is still alive and kicking or plotting something somewhere? And btw, who is the Sword of Morning nowadays?

 

Thank you in advance for your answers. :)

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Is there any crackpot on how Arthur Dayne is still alive and kicking or plotting something somewhere? And btw, who is the Sword of Morning nowadays?

 

As you can imagine, there is, you need only search the forum (using your favorite search engine and type your search request followed by site:asoiaf.westeros.org ).

There is no person currently occupying the office of sword of the morning at the present time. Arthur Dayne was the last, so far.

[Mithras]

Do we know the exact chronology of these events?

 

- Oberyn/Elia/Jaime saw Cersei twisting baby Tyrion's prick

- Tywin told Cersei that she would marry Rhaegar

- Cersei/Melara went into Maggy's tent

[Lykos]

It's the way you listed it.

 

Cersei in Feast

Seventeen and new to knighthood. Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames. Two of her uncles fell before his lance, along with a dozen of her father's finest jousters. die flower of the west. By night the prince played his silver harp and made her weep. When she had been presented to him, Cersei had almost drowned in the depths of his sad purple eyes. He has been wounded, she recalled thinking, but I will mend his hurt when we are wed.

Next to Rhaegar, even her beautiful Jaime had seemed no more than a callow boy. The prince is going to be my husband, she had thought giddy with excitement, and when the old king dies ill be the queen. Her aunt had confided that truth to her before the tourney.

"You must be especially beautiful," Lady Genna told her. fussing with her dress, "for at the final feast it shall be announced that you and Prince Rhaegar are betrothed."
Cersei had been so happy that day. Elsewise she would never have dared visit the tent of Maggy the Frog. She had only done it to show Jeyne and Melara that the lioness fears nothing. I was going to be a queen. Why should a queen be afraid of some hideous old woman?

The memory of that foretelling still made her flesh crawl a lifetime later. Jeyne ran shrieking from the tent in fear, the queen remembered, but Melara stayed and so did I. We let her taste our blood, and laughed at her stupid prophecies. None of them made the least bit of sense.
She was going to be Prince Rhaegar's wife, no matter what the woman said. Her father had promised it, and Tywin Lannister's word was gold.
Her laughter died at tourney's end. There had been no final feast, no toasts to celebrate her betrothal to Prince Rhaegar. Only cold silences and chilly looks between the king and her father. Later, when Aerys and his son and all his gallant knights had departed for Kings Landing,

the girl had gone to her aunt in tears, not understanding. "Your father proposed the match," Lady Genna told her, "but Aerys refused to hear of it."You are my most able servant. Tywin." the king said, but a man does not marry his heir to his servants daughter.

 

Tyrion was born when Rhaegar was 14 or so the wiki says.

 

Edit. Stupid OCR

[Mithras]

I think the first two should be interchanged which I speculated in detail in this thread.

[spoon89]

I read your post and I think your analysis is correct. I will add a bit to your thread though.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Do we know the exact chronology of these events?
 
- Oberyn/Elia/Jaime saw Cersei twisting baby Tyrion's prick
- Tywin told Cersei that she would marry Rhaegar
- Cersei/Melara went into Maggy's tent

Whether Tyrions birth (273 AC) came first, or Cersei being promised the match by Tywin (272 AC or 273 AC), is unknown. That Joanna entertained another match for Cersei prior to her death might be a point into the direction of Tywins promise having come after Cersei hurting Tyrion (very shortly after his birth). In fact, Tywin might have brought it up due to the dornish visit as well.

Cersei's visit to Maggy was last, in 276 AC, the tourney held in Lannisport for Viserys' birth

[Mithras]

/nm 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Not really a small question, but it's not worth its own thread... Why didn't Joffrey ever command Sandor to strike Sansa?

[spoon89]

Whether Tyrions birth (273 AC) came first, or Cersei being promised the match by Tywin (272 AC or 273 AC), is unknown. That Joanna entertained another match for Cersei prior to her death might be a point into the direction of Tywins promise having come after Cersei hurting Tyrion (very shortly after his birth). In fact, Tywin might have brought it up due to the dornish visit as well.

Cersei's visit to Maggy was last, in 276 AC, the tourney held in Lannisport for Viserys' birth

 

As I pointed out in the other thread, the hopes for a Martell and Lannister match were pinned on Joanna's relationship with the Princess of Dorne, whom had been friends since childhood due to serving in the royal court together (the Princess Martell did not have a relationship with Tywin) and his refusal of the Dornish proposals of matches happened in 273AC after Tyrions birth and Joanna's death.

 

It's a possibility that Tywin had told Cersei about his long term goal of matching her with Rhaegar as early as the tourney in Kings Landing in 272AC, it is the kind of thing I could see him telling her and creating a drive to be become the ideal of a noble lady, but I think you may be correct that he did so after the Dornish visit and death of Joanna.

 

Actually the visit to Maggy has to occur during the tournament, after seeing Rhaegar and previous to the refusal.

 

Look at Cersei line of questioning and her thought process as she gets her answers, thats one clue. There is also the question of Melara, we do not know anything after her first question but we do know the result. We know that her prophecy came true, that it is strongly hinted at in the text that Cersei pushed her into a well and we know that Cersei would likely do so to keep Jamie for herself. But I propose that the triggering indecent that would cause Cersei to push Melara is not the prophecy itself, but the refusal of her betrothal to Rhaegar and her subsequent self perceived need to insure that Jamie remained hers.