Darkstar is a Brightflame

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think it's 50/50 that he's a blackfyre. just hard to guess through whom

You're saying Darkstar is a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre? Can you add some support that idea?

[Lost Melnibonean]

he took the name of dayne, i would assume, the dragonblood is his mother then. right? the child takes the last name of the father parental?

There's most likely two generations in between Maegor and Darkstar. One of those would have been a female wed to a Dayne. For example, let's say Maegor had a son wed to a female Dayne. And let's say Maegor Jr had a daughter wed to a Blackmont or some nearby house. Perhaps that daughter married the Knight of High Hermitage. And let's say she named her son Gerold...

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

Well he has Valaryen features same nose as Harry the heir and Laenor Valaryon.

I like your theory for another reason i noticed when he refers to Arthur he says my cousin, maybe it's just me but it felt like a close cousin and not a distant one like you hear Myrcella describe her Lannister handmaiden although it is the lesser house speaking of being related to the greater house which you often see like a famous person would shrug off a unimportant distant cousin and the unimportant cousin would always act like they are a closer relation to the famous person.

Anyway i went off track a bit what i am getting at is since we do not know alot about the history of High hermitage is it possible that the seat is a fairly new one and maybe even started with the relation that you speak of perhaps Egg married his nephew off and sent a nice purse with him.

Something we always have to consider is the Targaryen's being so beautiful and royal that they have any woman they want and the seed of that relationship carries on the family name much like the Targaryen's who are now house Plumm. Gerold could easily be Aery's child

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

delete

[Lost Melnibonean]

Always frustrates me too when people look into Darkstar's physical appearance and dont get Oberyn out of it

Wouldn't he have to have a widow's peak to be Oberyn's son?

[Blazfemur]

There's most likely three generations in between Maegor and Darkstar. One of those would a female wed to a Dayne. For example, let's say Maegor had a son wed to a female Dayne. And let's say Maegor Jr had a daughter wed to a Blackmont or some nearby house. Perhaps tha daughter married the Knight of High Hermitage...

erm... Septa? :)

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

he took the name of dayne, i would assume, the dragonblood is his mother then. right? the child takes the last name of the father parental?

Not in Dorne

[Lost Melnibonean]

Always frustrates me too when people look into Darkstar's physical appearance and dont get Oberyn out of it

Don't let it frustrate you. Appreciate different opinions. You will have less fury and more peaches. :)

[RoamingRonin]

OK, so Aerion has curly hair to Darkstar's straight hair, and silver-gold to Darkstar's silver, and a straight nose to Darkstar's aquiline nose. His slim build, middling height, high brow, and pale smooth skin can't be compared to Darkstar because we don't get those details about him. The one thing they have in common is high/sharp cheekbones, and dark eyes.

That's not an argument in favor of them being related.

And there are similar weaknesses in your other evidence, where you're looking for one thing to connect things up and pass over much bigger differences. For example, "... the author subtly compares the bitterness of Aegor Rivers to Darkstar, who prefers to drink unsweetened lemon water, a very bitter drink, to wine". And yet, when you quote from Aerion: "If you cannot manage a horse, fetch me some wine and a pretty wench". So, Darkstar is like a Brightflame because he doesn't drink wine... when the Brightflame himself does drink wine?

And many of your quotes, I'm not even sure what they're supposed to be evidence for. You quote 7 paragraphs of text just to tell us that "No one is sure as to what happened. . . Is it possible that Darkstar did not intend to kill or to maim Myrcella?" OK, and... how does that have anything to do with whether Darkstar is a Brightflame? This is then followed by three even longer quotes, which all serve to tell us that Myrcella believed Arianne's lie, and therefore... what?

Really, after you dig through all of the quotes, the only evidence for the theory is that it's not completely impossible that Maegor has descendants in Dorne, but there's no reason to believe he does, and one sunset could possibly be read as foreshadowing that Darkstar is a Targaryen because it's red, and Darkstar and Aerion are both kind of arrogant bastards.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about this theory. A lot of the evidence quoted doesn't support the theory at all.

[Lost Melnibonean]

This pretty much sums up how I feel about this theory. A lot of the evidence quoted doesn't support the theory at all.

Oh well, at least you read it thoroughly and gave it serious consideration. What do you suppose Darkstar's purpose is? Why is he the most dangerous man in Dorne?

[Blazfemur]

a blatantly botched assassination attempt, would make him openly, without saying any words, exclaim which side he was on, without killing the subject.

perfect for infiltration. whichever side he attempts to go to, wouldnt they MORE than welcome him, after openly taking an act AGAINST the lannisters and the crown?

[Bael's Bastard]

There's most likely three generations in between Maegor and Darkstar. One of those would have been a female wed to a Dayne. For example, let's say Maegor had a son wed to a female Dayne. And let's say Maegor Jr had a daughter wed to a Blackmont or some nearby house. Perhaps that daughter married the Knight of High Hermitage. And let's say she named her son Gerold...

IIRC, Darkstar is late 20s, so perhaps born around 274 or a bit earlier. Maegor was born around 233. There probably wouldn't be more than a generation between Maegor and Darkstar. I don't think it's impossible, because who knows where if anywhere descendants of Aerion may pop up. But I'm not ready to buy this one.

[Lost Melnibonean]

IIRC, Darkstar is late 20s, so perhaps born around 274 or a bit earlier. Maegor was born around 233. There probably wouldn't be more than a generation between Maegor and Darkstar. I don't think it's impossible, because who knows where if anywhere descendants of Aerion may pop up. But I'm not ready to buy this one.

You're probably right. Darkstar being Maegor's grandson and Aerion's great grandson would make more sense.

[falcotron]

I don't know. But if he is Maegor's heir, he has a claim to the Iron Throne. I agree that he probably could not hold the throne, but in the current chaos maybe he might be able to sieze it somehow, or perhaps claim it from afar.

I'm assuming that in your theory, everyone knows his mother is Maegor's daughter/granddaughter (because that claim has always been there, and in the open, and is what makes him "the most dangerous man in Dorne" once there's a succession question), right?

It just seems like he has an obviously weaker claim than just about anyone else contending. Even if you undo the attainder on Aerys, and ignore the precedent for agnatic succession from the Dance, Stannis and Robert's children are still ahead of him in Aerys's inheritance, whether by cognatic succession or by proximity of blood. And that's ignoring Dany and Aegon, and the heirs of Egg's sisters, who weren't explicitly removed from the succession as Aerion was, and other possible cousins we may not know about once you open the door for maternal succession.

And I can't see who he'd expect to press his claim. Obviously Doran isn't going to. And I can't see anyone in the Reach doing it, even to spite the Martells. And there doesn't seem to be any indication that he has anywhere else to raise tens of thousands of men on his own.

I don't think any of this argues against the possibility of Darkstar being Maegor's (great-)grandson, I just don't think his claim would be relevant to the story if true, or the reason he's considered the most dangerous man in Dorne. Of course there are other ways it could be relevant. GRRM could draw a thematic parallel between them, or he could even have Darkstar's Targaryen blood be instrument in taking one of the dragons for Dorne if Dany dies or something....

I think you're right that they have similar personalities, and that Darkstar has a Targaryen-ish look to him. I just don't think you've shown much more than that. At least not yet.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm assuming that in your theory, everyone knows his mother is Maegor's daughter/granddaughter (because that claim has always been there, and in the open, and is what makes him "the most dangerous man in Dorne" once there's a succession question), right?

It just seems like he has an obviously weaker claim than just about anyone else contending. Even if you undo the attainder on Aerys, and ignore the precedent for agnatic succession from the Dance, Stannis and Robert's children are still ahead of him in Aerys's inheritance, whether by cognatic succession or by proximity of blood. And that's ignoring Dany and Aegon, and the heirs of Egg's sisters, who weren't explicitly removed from the succession as Aerion was, and other possible cousins we may not know about once you open the door for maternal succession.

And I can't see who he'd expect to press his claim. Obviously Doran isn't going to. And I can't see anyone in the Reach doing it, even to spite the Martells. And there doesn't seem to be any indication that he has anywhere else to raise tens of thousands of men on his own.

I don't think any of this argues against the possibility of Darkstar being Maegor's (great-)grandson, I just don't think his claim would be relevant to the story if true, or the reason he's considered the most dangerous man in Dorne. Of course there are other ways it could be relevant. GRRM could draw a thematic parallel between them, or he could even have Darkstar's Targaryen blood be instrument in taking one of the dragons for Dorne if Dany dies or something....

I think you're right that they have similar personalities, and that Darkstar has a Targaryen-ish look to him. I just don't think you've shown much more than that. At least not yet.

I appreciate the fair minded criticism. At the moment I don't see a better explanation for the existence of Darkstar. And I like this theory better than the Brightfyre theory since I don't see any reason for Maegor to go to Lys.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

I absolutely hate Brightflame theories. For the sole goddamn reason that there are no such things as Brightflames yet people insist on talking as if there is.

Any descendant of Aerion Brightflame TARGARYEN is a TARGARYEN. BRIGHTFLAME is a goddamn NICKNAME. It is NOT the equivalent of the name Blackfyre. Daemon Blackfyre started his own house and called it House Blackfyre. His descendants are called Blackfyres because they are of House Blackfyre. There is no House Brightflame.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I absolutely hate Brightflame theories. For the sole goddamn reason that there are no such things as Brightflames yet people insist on talking as if there is.

Any descendant of Aerion Brightflame TARGARYEN is a TARGARYEN. BRIGHTFLAME is a goddamn NICKNAME. It is NOT the equivalent of the name Blackfyre. Daemon Blackfyre started his own house and called it House Blackfyre. His descendants are called Blackfyres because they are of House Blackfyre. There is no House Brightflame.

Ohhh... now I get it! Thanks for clearing that up. Your input is really appreciated. I'll be sure pay it forward.

[falcotron]

I appreciate the fair minded criticism. At the moment I don't see a better explanation for the existence of Darkstar.

But what mystery are you trying to solve here? He has the quasi-Targaryen looks of many Daynes. He's the most dangerous man in Dorne, just like Arthur Dayne was the deadliest man in Westeros. And we're told he's a Dayne. What does that not explain?

And I like this theory better than the Brightfyre theory since I don't see any reason for Maegor to go to Lys.

I thought most of the Brightflame supporters had long ago decided that it was the "bastard or three" that Aerion left in Lys, not Maegor?

Anyway, to me, the biggest problem with the Brightflame theory (besides the one The Khal Who Rode West brings up...), at least in the most popular BF-BF version (where Varys and Serra are Brightflames and Illyrio is a Blackfyre and Aegon is their son), is that it's a theory that's trying to explain a mystery that doesn't exist, and does so in a way that doesn't matter. According to the theory, the GC care about Aegon because they know he's secretly a Blackfyre; everyone in Westeros cares about Aegon because they believe he's actually Rhaegar's son; Varys cares about Aegon because he's his nephew... nobody cares that he's Aerion's descendant at all.

So, it has the same problem as your theory, but bigger. And it involves a chain of multiple different suppositions which are all possible but don't have any evidence for them, while yours only really has one. So, I agree that your theory is better, but I'm not sure why that's a standard. I mean, your theory is also better than the Daarion=Euron one just by not being obviously stupid. :)

But anyway, we're getting way off-topic here.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

Ohhh... now I get it! Thanks for clearing that up. Your input is really appreciated. I'll be sure pay it forward.

Lol sorry, pet peeve.

Anywho, it does seem interesting just how similar Darkstar looks to a Valyrian. The Daynes did marry into the Targaryens but there shouldn't be Daynes with Valyrian features due to that marriage as the family continued through the Targaryens, not Daynes. So either the Daynes themselves look Valyrian, or some Valyrian married into the Daynes recently and the looks are relatively new.

[DarkSister1001]

Love the idea and as always, the work you put into it.  His attitude is very much like Aerion and his looks are similar enough to take into consideration. 

Mind if we discuss the reason why he's the most dangerous man in Dorne?  If he is a trueborn Targaryen why would Doran bother with the marriage pact? 

All-in-all I think it's definitely an idea worth entertaining and even a possibility.  IF he his I wonder if he could be the Darkflame that Dany is warned against.  On the surface Darkflame seems to be Moroqqo since that's what the crew calls him.  But this is more fun.  Darkstar Brightflame = Darkflame.