maarsen Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 I am a clumsy person and despite my best attempts, occasionally I do bump people, women included, in delicate parts of their anatomy. It embarrasses the shit out of me but no one has ever called it abuse. Give Trudeau a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 This was hardly an example of "clumsiness". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 It was hardly assault. It was an accident. If Trudeau were the type to go around striking people intentionally there would be a history of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 So, Aemon, are you suggesting then that it was deliberate? Take a look at the link I posted. All of the NDPers in that scrum were blocking him and hitting him, he hasn't claimed he was assaulted. The NDPers were also blocking and hitting Gord Brown, all technically assaults but only an idiot would claim they were assaulted. And in any event I've now heard this was a game arranged between the NDP and the Conservatives, so Gord Brown wouldn't have complained anyway. That was on the CBC's Politics radio show this morning, the House, the Conservative said it didn't matter if the scenario was arranged. I'm not excusing the PM, he got sucked in good and hard, but I do object to the bs being thrown around by the opposition. Especially that rat faced Conservative who got up and announce this was a criminal assault. He's the same little jerk who got up and castigated the Minister of Justice for not having appointed judges yet because she was too busy attending fund raisers. Rich considering the Conservatives had the worst record in history throughout their entire term in office with regard to appointing judges. I believe when Harper called the election there were 45 empty positions, because Harper didn't give a flying fuck about judicial appointments. He did however appoint 49 positions to various boards, renewing positions that hadn't even come to the end of their terms, like the notorious 7 year renewal to the National Energy Board. And speaking of rich, hearing Rona Ambrose get up and say the NEB approved the Trans Mountain pipeline and therefore the government has an obligation to approve it made me want to puke. Those hearings were notorious for all the people who were refused a say before the Board hearings. And the Board was stacked with oil men by Harper. Talk about a process without credibility. But back to 'elbowgate' for a moment. According to what I heard this morning, all that had to be done to start the vote was for the government whip to sit down. Elizabeth May didn't know that, and as she said, she's a rule junkie. Both the Conservative and NDP members on the program knew it, and mocked Trudeau for not knowing that. I suspect that both he and the government whip were aware of the rule, which was likely why Trudeau went down to grab Brown. If the government whip had sat down, everyone not sitting at that moment would have been unable to vote, which is why he wasn't sitting yet, waiting for the MPs to sit down. So Trudeau was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If the whip sat down, I can just imagine the screams that would have come from the opposition benches from all the MPs who couldn't vote because they were standing around. Gord Brown would have screamed that he had been blocked by the NDP. You have to admit, it was a clever nasty little trap. And as for Ms Brosseau, the NDP member who was so terribly assaulted, Elizabeth May saw her afterwards and said she was convinced she was traumatized. I respect Ms May and I believed her, and I also happen to like Ms Brosseau.. But after seeing that frame-by-frame breakdown of the event, after hearing the incredible bullshit being thrown around by the opposition members, after listening to the fuck-you attitude of the opposition members being interviewed, I'm afraid that I now believe her trauma is also bullshit. She was likely planning to scream about injustice if the government whip sat down and she couldn't vote because she was standing on the floor, so when the PM led Brown to his seat she ran out of the House and cried about missing the vote because she was so traumatized. And, in the end, I put a whole lot of blame the Supreme Court of Canada for not granting the government's request for a 6 month extension for the assisted dying bill. I could also place blame on the Conservatives, for dragging their feet for months and then calling such a long election, preventing discussion on such an emotional issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 On 5/21/2016 at 11:26 PM, Aemon Stark said: The Liberals are disorganized and were caught unprepared. It is NOT the Opposition's job to agree, for example, to limit debate on major bills on highly charged, controversial topics. I don't agree that this was a "nothing" incident and ONCE AGAIN, what Trudeau did was something any "normal" employee would get sent packing for. It's the Speaker's job to maintain order and it's the Sergeant-at-Arms who can compel members. Suggesting this is just some "procedural bullshit" justifies behaviour that is unparliamentary and frankly authoritarian and antidemocratic. This government is all about image and little else. I expected better. No you don't. Cause you keep trying to justify this procedural dickery the NDP were up to. That's the whole point. Trudeau gets magically held to a higher standard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 The NEB's approval process is a joke, and I sincerely hope that Derek Corrigan (mayor of Burnaby) is able to stop Kinder Morgan's TransMountain pipeline somehow. As for Trudeau, I didn't vote for his party, but his candidate still won locally, defeating one of Harper's back-bencher bitches (as I liked to call them), so it was nice to not have a Con MP finally. That being said, I think that they should have legalized cannabis for recreational use already... seriously. The PM has used cannabis since becoming an MP and yet regular people could get a criminal record for similar use? BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 There are legal issues that have to be dealt with. Canada signed at least 2 UN treaties on drugs, and the US federal government is also still an obstacle. Not to mention trying to find a way to test for impaired driving. I want it legalised too, but some things can't be done overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Considering that more than one US state has legalized cannabis (and are thus in contravention of those same UN treaties), I want to see Canada get on board nationally. I still cannot believe that the US beat us to legalization (even at the state level).... especially as someone from BC. I would use Colorado, in particular, as a litmus test for how to go about legalizing cannabis, and I am especially impressed by the revenue that they have collected and put into the state's coffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Yes but those states have yet to face legal challenges by the feds. The battle there hasn't even begun. Edit: Ok it has begun. But it is far from over. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/21/what-todays-supreme-court-decision-means-for-the-future-of-legal-weed/ Scalia did pick a good time to die, but if the supreme court justice that will eventually be installed has an anti-drug leaning, all the states that legalised marijuana could be in for a rough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 ...It must be said that the political process of Canada is at least held to a standard where the members of government wont start actual brawls on the legislature floor..... probably.... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 On 22/05/2016 at 1:26 AM, Dany's Silver said: Considering that more than one US state has legalized cannabis (and are thus in contravention of those same UN treaties), I want to see Canada get on board nationally. I still cannot believe that the US beat us to legalization (even at the state level).... especially as someone from BC. I would use Colorado, in particular, as a litmus test for how to go about legalizing cannabis, and I am especially impressed by the revenue that they have collected and put into the state's coffers. There is an essential difference between Canadian and US criminal law that has allowed US states to legalize marijuana. Criminal law is controlled by the federal government in Canada, and the federal government is the signatory to those UN treaties. Criminal law is controlled by individual states in the US. I know very little about US law, but I assume that the federal government complies with anti-drug treaties at the federal level, but since criminal law is under the control of states, the states don't have to comply with international treaties. This has caused a huge problem for the companies that sell marijuana in those states, because federally governed banks refuse to allow them to open bank accounts owing to the fact that they won't touch proceeds from what, on a federal level, is criminal activity. But in any event, if you google the topic of international treaties you'll see that the US is infamous for entering treaties, demanding the other nations that are signatories comply with the treaties, but the US ignores treaties whenever they feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Not really politics, but... http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/shooting-at-centre-culturel-islamique-de-quebec Quote Multiple gunmen opened fire in a Quebec mosque during evening prayers, killing five people, according to multiple reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 That is some frightening story. Has some anti-immigrant nutcase gone and shot up the mosque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've got to say I am in total shock. They have two suspects in custody apparently. I don't like to jump to conclusions but I'm thinking it is an attack by anti-immigrant people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: That is some frightening story. Has some anti-immigrant nutcase gone and shot up the mosque? 1 minute ago, snake said: I've got to say I am in total shock. They have two suspects in custody apparently. I don't like to jump to conclusions but I'm thinking it is an attack by anti-immigrant people. This mosque was targeted during Ramadan with a gift of a pig's head left on the steps. Wonderful. The timing with what's going on here in the US maybe made someone feel emboldened enough to take action. Or it's unrelated. Just. Awful, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, kairparabola said: This mosque was targeted during Ramadan with a gift of a pig's head left on the steps. Wonderful. The timing with what's going on here in the US maybe made someone feel emboldened enough to take action. Or it's unrelated. Just. Awful, The rhetoric among a couple of conservative leadership candidates is eerily familiar to that of Trump and his victory has emboldened bigots and racists. But I'm thinking that this was probably coming eventually. We have a lot of white people up here and immigrants, especially Muslims, are distrusted and feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, snake said: The rhetoric among a couple of conservative leadership candidates is eerily familiar to that of Trump and his victory has emboldened bigots and racists. But I'm thinking that this was probably coming eventually. We have a lot of white people up here and immigrants, especially Muslims, are distrusted and feared. Oh I know. Born in Montreal, grew up in Ottawa. Still a Canadian citizen. It makes me sad. I grew up with Iraqi, Iranian, Lebanese and other middle-eastern children. But it was a more moderate climate on all sides in the 70s and 80s. Or it seemed that way to a child's eye at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, kairparabola said: Oh I know. Born in Montreal, grew up in Ottawa. Still a Canadian citizen. It makes me sad. I grew up with Iraqi, Iranian, Lebanese and other middle-eastern children. But it was a more moderate climate on all sides in the 70s and 80s. Or it seemed that way to a child's eye at least. It probably was much more moderate. This has been building for some time in Canada. Just look at some of the reactions to us taking in Syrian refugees. It was utterly disgusting. Breaks my heart and I fear that this will not be the last time such a thing happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Stark Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, kairparabola said: Not really politics, but... http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/shooting-at-centre-culturel-islamique-de-quebec Potentially a much worse sign if there were multiple assailants. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Stark Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Translation from French Original article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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