Jump to content

Canadian politics- "to work! We have a government to defeat!"


maarsen

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 

I suppose you think Trudeau wasn't gaslighting Rose Knight when he said that women may experience 'groping' differently than men. 

This thread conveniently leaves out facts and context when mansplaining Canadian politics.  Ford is nothing like Trump.

 

No, I don't think he was gaslighting. And that's not what he said. I will grant, however, that he's handled this poorly. I've lost some respect for him.

Please though, this Canadian in Alberta could use an alternative education on facts and context discussed herein.

Why don't you start with how different Ford is from Trump. Don't even worry about his troubled past. If you could put his administration's actions since taking office in context for me that would be great.

I'm patient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

No, I don't think he was gaslighting. And that's not what he said. I will grant, however, that he's handled this poorly. I've lost some respect for him.

Please though, this Canadian in Alberta could use an alternative education on facts and context discussed herein.

Why don't you start with how different Ford is from Trump. Don't even worry about his troubled past. If you could put his administration's actions since taking office in context for me that would be great.

I'm patient.

This isn't about Ford.  But that is how neo-marxists prefer to frame everything.  Doug Ford is nothing like Trump except to those who want to import the Trump-meme into Canadian politics.  This is a convenient place to do that since very few here will know anything about Canadian politics or politicians.  I was not a supporter of Rob Ford. In retrospect, I find this story more sad than embarrassing now that we know he was dying of cancer and probably knew it.  That goes a long way to explain his erratic behavior and his need for escape through drugs.  Doug Ford is a tea-totaller.  So whatever his youthfull daliances in pot or hashish are probably on par with everyone else including our current Prime Minister.   I live in Ontario and I didn't want Doug Ford for leader but he has proven himself throughout the campaign and now implementing the promises he made to the people of Ontario.  If he had been anything like Trump; I would be the first person to hit him over the head with a trash can.  He's proven me wrong.

If you live in Alberta, then you know very well why Wynne was tossed out after 15 years of scandal and malfeasance.  

But I am surprised that you are giving Trudeau a pass.  Of course he was gaslighting Rose Knight by saying that a women might experience an interaction differently than a man and that he has been 'reflecting' and can say he didn't do anything wrong.  That is complete bullshit.  Women know when they have been inappropriately handled and she is given credibility by all media and journalistic accounts.

"Who knows what was going on in her mind" - Trudeau

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/here-there.../11-warning-signs-gaslighting

 
Quote

Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality. It works much better than you may think. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders.

Andrew Coyne thinks Rose Knight finally issued a statement saying that it happened as reported because Trudeau is calling into question 'what was in her mind'.  There is reams of commentary on the Kokanee Grope across all party lines if anyone cares to googles it. 

This is Trudeau's problem as a "feminist' prime-minister; that he has reflected on this 'non-negative interaction' and given himself a pass.  

To go back to Trump... there are no Canadian politicians who are like Trump.  None.  Trump is one of a kind.  But that doesn't mean that we don't have our own idiot running the country.  Because we do.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

This isn't about Ford.  But that is how neo-marxists prefer to frame everything.  Doug Ford is nothing like Trump except to those who want to import the Trump-meme into Canadian politics.  This is a convenient place to do that since very few here will know anything about Canadian politics or politicians.  I was not a supporter of Rob Ford. In retrospect, I find this story more sad than embarrassing now that we know he was dying of cancer and probably knew it.  That goes a long way to explain his erratic behavior and his need for escape through drugs.  Doug Ford is a tea-totaller.  So whatever his youthfull daliances in pot or hashish are probably on par with everyone else including our current Prime Minister.   I live in Ontario and I didn't want Doug Ford for leader but he has proven himself throughout the campaign and now implementing the promises he made to the people of Ontario.  If he had been anything like Trump; I would be the first person to hit him over the head with a trash can.  He's proven me wrong.

If you live in Alberta, then you know very well why Wynne was tossed out after 15 years of scandal and malfeasance.  

But I am surprised that you are giving Trudeau a pass.  Of course he was gaslighting Rose Knight by saying that a women might experience an interaction differently than a man and that he has been 'reflecting' and can say he didn't do anything wrong.  That is complete bullshit.  Women know when they have been inappropriately handled and she is given credibility by all media and journalistic accounts.

"Who knows what was going on in her mind" - Trudeau

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/here-there.../11-warning-signs-gaslighting

 

Andrew Coyne thinks Rose Knight finally issued a statement saying that it happened as reported because Trudeau is calling into question 'what was in her mind'.  There is reams of commentary on the Kokanee Grope across all party lines if anyone cares to googles it. 

This is Trudeau's problem as a "feminist' prime-minister; that he has reflected on this 'non-negative interaction' and given himself a pass.      

Doug Ford did not just have a dalliance with pot. He was a dealer. I know people that bought their pot and hash from him. He is a liar when he denies it. 

Randy Ford, while going through a divorce, had to file financial statements that are on the public record. These support the claims made by Renata. Being a drunk does not make you a liar.

Doug Ford made stupid promises and the height of stupidity is hoping he follows through on them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, LynnS said:

If you live in Alberta, then you know very well why Wynne was tossed out after 15 years of scandal and malfeasance.  

I do know that. What I don't understand is why so many Ontarians chose to rebel so harshly against Wynne's government that they'd toss values out with the baby's bathwater. And you haven't answered my question, in any way, at all. You're evasive.

---

Insofar as Trudeau, I haven't given him a pass. The original editorial had scant detail on the actual interaction, and Knight's statement only confirms the former editorial. It's a circular lens that doesn't clarify anything. I won't dispute that he did something that made her uncomfortable, I'm just not sure what the media and those whose bias it confirms expect as a result. That he resign? Eat crow? What exactly, because Knight was essentially doxxed and It feels like the point of #metoo is getting lost in the bent narrative.

Kind of need her, oh, I don't know... consent to push on with it?    

 

 

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Doug Ford did not just have a dalliance with pot. He was a dealer. I know people that bought their pot and hash from him. He is a liar when he denies it. 

Randy Ford, while going through a divorce, had to file financial statements that are on the public record. These support the claims made by Renata. Being a drunk does not make you a liar.

Doug Ford made stupid promises and the height of stupidity is hoping he follows through on them. 

I really don't give a fuck what Doug Ford or Randy did in their youth.  Everybody gets their pot or hash from someone, including you, I bet.  Renata is a sick woman and there is nothing else that supports her claims.  I take what she says with a grain of salt at tihs point.

I really don't care what you think about Doug Ford's promises.  These are promises he made to the electorate and the reason he was elected and the liberals were reduced to 7 seats and non-party status.  There is nothing stupid about it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

I really don't give a fuck what Doug Ford or Randy did in their youth.  Everybody gets their pot or hash from someone, including you, I bet.  Renata is a sick woman and there is nothing else that supports her claims.  I take what she says with a grain of salt at tihs point.

I really don't care what you think about Doug Ford's promises.  These are promises he made to the electorate and the reason he was elected and the liberals were reduced to 7 seats and non-party status.  There is nothing stupid about it. 

Ontario spends the least of any province on health care per capita. Taking 6 billion dollars more out of healthcare is really a stupid promise. If you think hospitals are overcrowded now, wait till Doug Ford makes things worse. 

Mike Harris made the same stupid promises also and had to backtrack in a big way since he found not hiring or giving decent wages to healthcare workers was a really stupid thing to do. Does Doug have the ability to learn? From past experience I doubt it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JEORDHl said:

I do know that. What I don't understand is why so many Ontarians chose to rebel so harshly against Wynne's government that they'd toss values out with the babies bathwater. And you haven't answered my question, in any way, at all. You're evasive.

---

Insofar as Trudeau, I haven't given him a pass. The original editorial had scant detail on the actual interaction, and Knight's statement only confirms the former editorial. It's a circular lens that doesn't clarify anything. I won't dispute that he did something that made her uncomfortable, I'm just not sure what the media and those whose bias it confirms expect as a result. That he resign? Eat crow? What exactly, because Knight was essentially doxxed and It feels like point of #metoo is getting lost in the bent narrative.

Kind of need her, oh, I don't know... consent to push on with it?    

 

 

  

What values are you talking about?  The liberal record on governance is enough to kick them to the curb.  Look up scandals, there are reams of them.  They don't get another pass for 'values'.  

Rose Knight doesn't need to do anything.  The point is she confronted him at the time and she is credible.  As the self-professed feminist prime-minister he has to answer for the standards he applies to everyone else.  What will stop the next person from using Trudeau's defence:  I have reflected on my behavior and I didn't do anything wrong.  The complainant's recollection is completely different from mine.

It's Trudeau's hypocrisy and complete BS that is getting him into trouble now that he is being asked about.  I think his reaction is very revealing.  It says a lot to me about his character and judgement whether this is a MeToo moment or not.  I also recall an article in the National Post years ago; where a women recounted seeing him at some celebrity event and approached him only to hear him say to they guy next to him "all we need now are a couple of beavers".  She was stunned and turned around without meeting him.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Ontario spends the least of any province on health care per capita. Taking 6 billion dollars more out of healthcare is really a stupid promise. If you think hospitals are overcrowded now, wait till Doug Ford makes things worse. 

Mike Harris made the same stupid promises also and had to backtrack in a big way since he found not hiring or giving decent wages to healthcare workers was a really stupid thing to do. Does Doug have the ability to learn? From past experience I doubt it. 

Don't you mean what have the liberals done to health care in the last 15 years? 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doctors-ontario-1.3550454

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/top-bureaucrat-says-ehealth-brass-failed-to-follow-his-advice/article4215058/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/over-16000-children-on-ontario-wait-lists-for-autism-services-some-families-are-waiting-years-for-help

There's more if you want it.  But yes; it's quite the fucking mess the new government will have to deal with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, you missed it again. I'm not interested in the opinion of someone who ignores the wishes of the victim. It's antithetical.

---

How about retreating to your statement that Ford isn't like Trump?

Since you've espoused the pretension of understanding context better than anyone else inthread, roll out the changes he's made already and illustrate how they're dissimilar to Trump's? 

I'm totally open to a compelling argument. You have to make one though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you are not open to a compelling argument.  As far as I'm concerned, it's pretensious to say that he is like Trump.  The argument is that he won by populist vote.  I would argue that Trudeau did the same.   And yes, I am more qualified to discuss Canadian politics than those who don't live in Canada or follow Canadian politics.  I expect that the few people on this thread from Canada didn't expect to be called on their BS when they trot out the Trump-meme and apply it to Canadian politicians they don't like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Why go back 15 years? Remember Frank Miller? The man that managed to end 42 consecutive years of Conservative government by trying to close hospitals back in the 70's. Underfunding health care started with the PC's. The Ontario Hydro debt has its origins going back to the same time. Waving a wand and wishing both problems away will not help. Neither will building a Ferris wheel as he once suggested for Toronto or closing libraries. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

But you are not open to a compelling argument.  As far as I'm concerned, it's pretensious to say that he is like Trump.  The argument is that he won by populist vote.  I would argue that Trudeau did the same.   And yes, I am more qualified to discuss Canadian politics than those who don't live in Canada or follow Canadian politics.  I expect that the few people on this thread from Canada didn't expect to be called on their BS when they trot out the Trump-meme and apply it to Canadian politicians they don't like.

lol fuck off with that noise [dies laughing]

 

ETA: Being less dismissive, I don't see any data points here, or comparisons. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, maarsen said:

Why go back 15 years? Remember Frank Miller? The man that managed to end 42 consecutive years of Conservative government by trying to close hospitals back in the 70's. Underfunding health care started with the PC's. The Ontario Hydro debt has its origins going back to the same time. Waving a wand and wishing both problems away will not help. Neither will building a Ferris wheel as he once suggested for Toronto or closing libraries. 

 Nobody is waving a wand around.  But neither will Ford be spending money on a giant rubber duck either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've challenged your stated 'credentials' with a simple question, and your response was basically a sophomoric rant with not even the whiff of an appeal to reason.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 Nobody is waving a wand around.  But neither will Ford be spending money on a giant rubber duck either.

That rubber duck made money as it travelled around. Margaret Atwood is known for being smarter than Ford, and more successful too. At least she can count to three when counting library branches. Dougie couldn't manage that. Makes you wonder how he ever made a go at it as a drug dealer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

I've challenged your stated 'credentials' with a simple question, and your response was basically a sophomoric rant with not even the whiff of an appeal to reason.  

Oh, I get your virtue signalling.  What 'values' again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, maarsen said:

That rubber duck made money as it travelled around. Margaret Atwood is known for being smarter than Ford, and more successful too. At least she can count to three when counting library branches. Dougie couldn't manage that. Makes you wonder how he ever made a go at it as a drug dealer. 

Ontario pays a billion a month in interest.  How many hospitals would that build?  All Wynne could manage was $120,000 for a rubber duck.  It does make me wonder what Doug Ford can manage.  I'll bet he can do better than a rubber duck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Oh, I get your virtue signalling.  What 'values' again?

No, you don't. But you got the Conservative lingo down pat, I'll give you that. Unfortunately that weak sauce is all style and no substance. But ok, I'll lay some of the changes out for you since you refuse to do so, and you can defend them on a value/lack thereof basis:

1.  Ontario backs out of sharing responsibilities with the Federal Gov on refugees and asylum claimants 

2. Chief scientist dismissed

3. Rules halted on reporting immunizations

4: Cap and Trade program cancelled

Those are the broadstrokes of what his administration has done so far [ignoring deliberate downsizing of Provincial files] and the guy has only started. But rather than getting into a pissing match about what he might yet do, make your case on the above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Ontario pays a billion a month in interest.  How many hospitals would that build?  All Wynne could manage was $120,000 for a rubber duck.  It does make me wonder what Doug Ford can manage.  I'll bet he can do better than a rubber duck.

And how will cutting government revenue help reduce the deficit? The last government to actually make any real deficit cutting was the federal Liberals under Chretien by the simple exercise of taking more in and paying out a lot less to the provinces. 

Then we ended up with Harper who promptly ran the deficit back up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...