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Slavery, Thralldom, Polygamy, Andals, First Men


Mithras

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That being said, many scholars still believe that the greatest of the Gardener kings were the peacemakers, not the fighters. Fewer songs are sung of them, it is true, but in the annals of history the names of Garth III (the Great), Garland II (the Bridegroom), Gwayne III (the Fat), and John II (the Tall) are writ large. Garth the Great extended the borders of his realm northward, winning Old Oak, Red Lake, and Goldengrove with pacts of friendship and mutual defense. Garland accomplished the same in the south, bringing Oldtown into his kingdom by wedding his daughter to Lymond (the Sea Lion) of House Hightower, whilst putting his own wives aside to marry Lord Lymond's daughter. Gwayne the Fat persuaded Lord Peake and Lord Manderly to accept his judgment on their quarrel, and do fealty for their lands, without fighting a single battle. John the Tall sailed his barge up the Mander to its very headwaters, planting the banner of the green hand wherever he went and receiving homage from the lords and petty kings whose lands lined that mighty river's banks.

 

It was not through war that the Hightowers were brought into the Kingdom of the Reach, however, but through long negotiations and marriage. When Lymond Hightower took to bride the daughter of King Garland II Gardener, whilst giving his own daughter's hand in marriage to her father, the Hightowers became bannermen to Highgarden, reduced from wealthy but relatively minor kings to the greatest lords of the Reach. (Oldtown was the last of the ancient realms to bend the knee to Highgarden, not long after the last King of the Arbor was lost at sea, allowing his cousin, King Meryn III Gardener, to make the isle part of his domain).

 

His usurper ruled for nigh unto thirty years as Ronard the Bastard, smashing rebel bannerman and petty kings alike in battle after battle. Never a man to confine himself to a single woman, he claimed a daughter from every foe who bent the knee. By the time he died, he had supposedly fathered nine-and-ninety sons. Most were bastard born (though Ronard had three-and-twenty wives, the songs say) and did not share in their father's inheritance but had to make their own way in the world. For this reason, thousands of years later, many and more of the smallfolk of the stormlands, even the meanest and humblest amongst them, still boast of royal blood.

 

These quotes prove the practice of polygamy among the First Men. Note that when the Andals came, the Kingdom of the Reach had already absorbed all the other petty kingdoms, with Hightowers being the last. So, Lymond and Garland were First Men practicing the Faith of the Old Gods. Ronard also seemed to have lived before the arrival of the Andals.

 

For thousands of years thereafter, his descendants ruled Oldtown and the lands of the Honeywine as kings, and ships from the world over came to their growing city to trade. As Oldtown grew wealthy and powerful, neighboring lords and petty kings turned covetous eyes upon its riches, and pirates and reavers from beyond the seas heard tales of its splendors as well. Thrice in the space of a single century the city was taken and sacked, once by the Dornish king Samwell Dayne (the Starfire), once by Qhored the Cruel and his ironmen, and once by Gyles I Gardener (the Woe), who reportedly sold three-quarters of the city's inhabitants into slavery, but was unable to breach the defenses of the Hightower on Battle Isle.

 

Thralldom was a common practice amongst the First Men during their long dominion over Westeros— further support for the ironborn having descended from the First Men.

 

Further, thralldom should not be conflated with chattel slavery as it exists in certain of the Free Cities and lands farther east. Unlike slaves, thralls retain certain important rights. A thrall belongs to his captor, and owes him service and obedience, but he is still a man, not property. Thralls cannot be bought or sold. They may own property, marry as they wish, have children. The children of slaves are born into bondage, but the children of thralls are born free; any babe born on one of the islands is considered ironborn, even when both his parents are thralls. Nor may such children be taken from their parents until the age of seven, when most begin an apprenticeship or join a ship’s crew.

 

The Gardeners and the Hightowers were the first to cease paying tribute. When King Theon III Greyjoy sailed against them, he was defeated and slain by Lord Lymond Hightower, the Sea Lion, who revived the practice of thralldom in Oldtown just long enough to set the ironmen captured during the battle to hard labor strengthening the city’s walls.

 

Note that Gyles the Woe was a very early Gardener King. He obviously practiced chattel slavery. Later, the practice of thralldom must have taken root and that is an improvement to chattel slavery. By the time of Lymond Hightower, the mainland First Men abandoned even the practice of thralldom give that Lymond revived it for a short time for the ironborn captives.

 

Others followed the mazemakers on Lorath in the centuries that followed. For a time the isles were home to a small, dark, hairy people, akin to the men of Ib. Fisherfolk, they lived along the coasts and shunned the great mazes of their predecessors. They in turn were displaced by Andals, pushing north from Andalos to the shores of Lorath Bay and across the bay in longships. Clad in mail and wielding iron swords and axes, the Andals swept across the islands, slaughtering the hairy men in the name of their seven-faced god and taking their women and children as slaves.

 

Dywen Shell and Jon Brightstone, both of whom claimed the title King of the Fingers, went so far as to pay Andal warlords to cross the sea, each thinking to use their swords against the other. Instead the warlords turned upon their hosts. Within a year Brightstone had been taken, tortured, and beheaded, and Shell roasted alive inside his wooden longhall. An Andal knight named Corwyn Corbray took the daughter of the former for his bride and the wife of the latter for his bedwarmer, and claimed the Fingers for his own (though Corbray, unlike many of his fellows, never named himself a king, preferring the more modest style of Lord of the Five Fingers).

 

These quotes prove that the Andals were practicing slavery in Essos and it had not ended as they were coming to Westeros. It is also highly probable that the slavers who took Wolf’s Den for a time were Andals and that most probably predates the coming of the Andals.

 

To conlude,

 

· The First Men practiced slavery and thralldom but they had abandoned it by the time Andals came. The ironborn continued the practice of thralldom until recent days.

· Andals were slavers in Essos. They must have abandoned slavery as soon as they merged with First Men kingdoms who had already given up slavery. After all, even in the newly carved kingdoms, their subjects must be mostly First Men with the faith of the Old Gods.

· The First Men practiced polygamy and we do not know when they stopped this practice. They may not have officially given up this practice legally. Some wildings beyond the Wall have multiple wives even at present day.

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Interesting research. I'd be curious to know how the Andals gave up slavery in Westeros. Being conquerors, one would think that they would maintain preexisting social structures. I suppose cultures always merge when living in the same place though. Do we think it was just the influence of the First Men? Could be a kind of ethnocentrism -- Andal slaves are more like them than the First Men, so they gave them more rights over time?

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Shouldn't this be in the TWOIAF-subforum?

 

Y'know, I'm desperately trying to find a way to link this information to ASoIaF myself, but it's difficult.

 

Nonetheless, a decent overview that reminds us that, even if at present the cultures have their differences, at one time or another, many cultures do hold the same beliefs that can change over time in one place, but be retained in others.

 

I've long made the argument re: polygamy/polyamory to people beyond the Targaryens, and this feeds into that claim.

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Interesting research. I'd be curious to know how the Andals gave up slavery in Westeros. Being conquerors, one would think that they would maintain preexisting social structures. I suppose cultures always merge when living in the same place though. Do we think it was just the influence of the First Men? Could be a kind of ethnocentrism -- Andal slaves are more like them than the First Men, so they gave them more rights over time?

 

And specifically, we have proof of this in the Reach during the Andal Invasion. World laid out that intermarriage and a meshing of culture on both sides led to a bloodless merging of the two groups in the Southwest. It could have been FM influence, or the nature of the Invasion in many parts of Westeros, one even wonders if Andal slaves weren't promised a freedom of sorts, in return for fighting against the FM, crackpot though that might sound.

 

Hell, it could have been one long, bountiful summer. A good question to think about though, Guards.

 

Edit: And that's my last double post. Think I just figured out how to edit in other quotes.

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Interesting research. I'd be curious to know how the Andals gave up slavery in Westeros. Being conquerors, one would think that they would maintain preexisting social structures. I suppose cultures always merge when living in the same place though. Do we think it was just the influence of the First Men? Could be a kind of ethnocentrism -- Andal slaves are more like them than the First Men, so they gave them more rights over time?

 

I think the First Men had the superior culture as the Andals first came as hired mercenaries. The Andal warlords were introduced to nobility and royalty by the First Men kings. We have lots of similar cases in real world history and each time, the mercenaries conquer their employers but adopt the high culture of the people they conquered. Besides, unless they commit extensive genocide, the genetic contribution of the new comers remains minor. So, the people of Westeros should have primarily First Men blood, more so in the North.

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I think the First Men had the superior culture as the Andals first came as hired mercenaries. The Andal warlords were introduced to nobility and royalty by the First Men kings. We have lots of similar cases in real world history and each time, the mercenaries conquer their employers but adopt the high culture of the people they conquered. Besides, unless they commit extensive genocide, the genetic contribution of the new comers remains minor. So, the people of Westeros should have primarily First Men blood, more so in the North.

 

but we know of Andal Kings in Essos...

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I believe slavery was very common back then, it just happens that they didn't based their economy on it, unlike Valyrian and Ghis. Indentured servants, debtors paying their debts with work to their creditors. And so on…

As for polygamy, I am pretty sure Lords offered their daughters to Aegon in marriage, even though they knew he was married already. To be honest, I don't know why they stopped with polygamy, neither the Targaryens (mind you, other Valyrian houses are not known for practicing polygamy). There is no reason explained why they stopped.
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I believe slavery was very common back then, it just happens that they didn't based their economy on it, unlike Valyrian and Ghis. Indentured servants, debtors paying their debts with work to their creditors. And so on…

As for polygamy, I am pretty sure Lords offered their daughters to Aegon in marriage, even though they knew he was married already. To be honest, I don't know why they stopped with polygamy, neither the Targaryens (mind you, other Valyrian houses are not known for practicing polygamy). There is no reason explained why they stopped.

 

The subtle influence of an unhappy (first) wife can do wonders for altering a man's household ;)

 

Seriously, don't underestimate the unseen power of the women running the households of these "great" men.  

 

A little research into the life of one "great" man, Julius Caesar, can show just how influential the opinions of Aurelia (his mother), Servilia (his mistress) and the Julia's (his sisters, and daughter) were to his ambitions and his plans.  Even Augustus had Livia and Octavia influencing him.  

 

Women may not have any political power in Westeros, but they have plenty of personal power - look at how Catelyn and Cersei control their husbands through approval and disapproval.  Alys Karstark doesn't seem like she's going to let her new husband walk all over her and her inheritance.  Manderley's granddaughters have already proved their mettle when faced with their prospective betrothed.  And these women aren't "Arya's," these are all women who seem to have accepted their lot in life as "ladies" - but that doesn't mean they're shrinking violets who won't speak against their husbands when necessary.  Hell, even Sansa told Tyrion "never"!  

 

Once they learned that there were other ways to run a household, that women in other places didn't have to share their husbands and started to see it work effectively in practice, women throughout the land would be subtly influencing their husbands, telling them and showing them that only one wife is needed.  

 

Wives also want *their* children to be heirs - with 3 wives, that puts a kink in the wives plans for their children.  Women would see monogamy as an advantage to her and her children.  Bastards are enough of a risk, trueborn children from other wives are even worse!  

 

So, pretty much the same way polygamy has fallen out of favour in the Western world, basically - though in that case, the new Faith probably helped it along as well, but I'm only basing that on Earth history and not from the books themselves.

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We have timespan here stretching millennia. That the First Men Culture pre-pact, post-pact, post Long Night, and at the dawn of the Andal migrations were all very different shouldn't be a surprise. Things change over time.

 

In the RL medieval world there were two things that decided whether slavery increased or diminished in an area:

 

1) Economy: Is slavery a feasible economic system here.  Do I get the most out of my workers if they are slaves, serfs, free tenants or contract workers? Another factor tied to economy was how remote you were, slaves were more easily avaliable in large trading hubs such as Venice, and thus much more a presence there than for example on the English countryside.

 

2) Religion: It's forbidden to enslave a Christian according to the Catholic Church. It's forbidden to enslave a Muslim according to most teachers of Islam. This made slavery present on the religious frontiers and (once again) in large trading hubs with many foreign "merchants". However it also made it hard to get slaves in a place where you couldn't just cross a river to raid some heathens, or buy from foreign merchants. (Of course people broke the rules, but we have both Christian and Islamic sources showing us that the consequences could be dire when religious authorities found out about it).

 

So in ASOIAF I think the Faith of the Seven had a huge impact on the demise of slavery and thralldom. It was okay for an Andal to make heathens thralls, but not to enforce people of the same faith into bondage. And when the First Men converted there simply was no people to enslave, and it made more snse in a feudal economy to have serfs and free tenants than to have slaves.

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GRRM has really just been writing REAL history of britain and Europe.

 

The Celtic and pre-Celtic people of Britain were a matriarchal society and indeed probably practice d execution of kings after a year or seven years or when challenged by another stronger guy.  Most societies reliant on farming and crop harvesting tend to be matriarchal or to worship female fertility GODESSES. We would expect in such societies to have strong women and marriage was not especially important.  I rather think that this will be important because I think Jon Snow is King of Winter inherited via his MOTHER.

 

However the Anglo Saxons (Andals) were a warrior culture and probably more into herding sheep goats and cattle. These societies tend to me male dominated.

 

The reason for the suppression of women via the Christian and Muslim religions is because it was really a religious battle.  The pre-christian godesses of the peasants (peans or pagans) were too powerful.

 

Societies choose marital customs that best suit their survival. In farming communities, one man/one woman suits best because there is a lot of work suited to different skill sets.  Although less strenuous than say ploughing, the food preservation role of the women was critical to survival, as was the sewing of warm clothing. The nuclear family within a large extended family/community is best for survival.   When however the bulk of the food comes from herding or hunting/fishing there is a greater role for men and men in control of large herds can support many wives. Indeed women will offer prefer to be one of many wives of a rich man because it was a guaranteed food source whereas a poor man with just a few animals is at risk of losing all to illness or injury.  Now at the other end of the scale, where life is very, very hard, the skills and strength of two men may be needed to ensure survival of the family. In this case polyandry is practiced. In Tibet and the Himalyas, polyandry is practiced, sometimes where the woman marries two brothers.

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Interesting research. I'd be curious to know how the Andals gave up slavery in Westeros. Being conquerors, one would think that they would maintain preexisting social structures. I suppose cultures always merge when living in the same place though. Do we think it was just the influence of the First Men? Could be a kind of ethnocentrism -- Andal slaves are more like them than the First Men, so they gave them more rights over time?

I think the reason why Andals gave up slavery is more simple than that. Andals may be called 'conquerors' but in practice they were not. Except for the Vale and Riverlands, they did not become the actual rulers (and in Riverlands their rule was short-lived), they started to live in Westerlands, Stromlands, the Reach under the rule of First Men where Lannisters, Gardeners and Durrandons still were kings. Hence the Andals could not continue practice slavery under the kings who didn't tolerate it. 

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I'd simply go with thralldom being a more primitive form of slavery. The First Men didn't have an economy that is worth being called as such, and subsequently their slavery was of a more personal sort - a man taking and keeping what he wanted to have with strength of arms and such, just as the wildlings still take their wives. Later on the scholars made a fuzz about how that was better than the refined slavery of the East when in fact it was pretty much the same all the time. Back in Essos the Andals would have been more familiar with slavery as it was practiced there but they obviously didn't impose any economic progression on Westeros.

 

As to polygamy, I don't think this was necessarily a custom practiced even by the First Men. It seems to be a privilege of the ruling classes. If you are a chieftain or a king you can take as many wives as you can feed, but if you are peasant you don't have the strength to force anyone to accept what you are doing.

 

While there are more historical First Men and wildling examples for polygamy, Hugor also supposedly had a lot of wives so that's not really a problem in principle - at least not for the larger-than-lives ancients. But the Andal ideal clearly is monogamy or else the Father Above would have multiple wives - say, not only the Mother but also the Crone and the Maiden (although the latter would be somewhat strange ;-)).

 

Whether the Faith would actually consider the likes of Craster or the other wildlings and free folk married is an interesting question. For the free folk Jon and Ygritte were effectively 'married' despite the fact that all they ever did was having sex - they are not civilized enough to distinguish between wives, paramours, lovers, and sex slaves, and also not between trueborn and illegitimate children. The whole bastard concept is not really important for them, it is known to them due to Mance's background and the story of Jon Snow, but they themselves don't look down on bastards because they don't know the concept.

 

And it is also quite clear that Craster 'marries' his daughters by deflowering them.

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Thralldom is a more advanced form of slavery and very like that practiced in later years of the Viking empire. It was the arrival of Christianity that stamped it out - the Seven parallel Christianity in many, many ways.  To be realistic early Chritianity worhipped at least 4 deities, despite the talk - Father (Father), Son (warrior or Smith), Holy Ghost (Stranger), Mary (Mother).  There are very strong similarities.

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I'd simply go with thralldom being a more primitive form of slavery. The First Men didn't have an economy that is worth being called as such, and subsequently their slavery was of a more personal sort - a man taking and keeping what he wanted to have with strength of arms and such, just as the wildlings still take their wives. Later on the scholars made a fuzz about how that was better than the refined slavery of the East when in fact it was pretty much the same all the time.

 

Except these opinions contradict with the text.

 

As to polygamy, I don't think this was necessarily a custom practiced even by the First Men. It seems to be a privilege of the ruling classes. If you are a chieftain or a king you can take as many wives as you can feed, but if you are peasant you don't have the strength to force anyone to accept what you are doing.

 

Ruling class or powerful elite or privileged clergy or powerful skinchangers. What does it matter? Some individuals from the First Men society kept multiple wives because they could afford it. Most of the First Men were monogamous but still polygamy was legal and the First Men practiced it. You are contradicting with yourself here. 

 

While there are more historical First Men and wildling examples for polygamy, Hugor also supposedly had a lot of wives so that's not really a problem in principle - at least not for the larger-than-lives ancients. But the Andal ideal clearly is monogamy or else the Father Above would have multiple wives - say, not only the Mother but also the Crone and the Maiden (although the latter would be somewhat strange ;-)).

 

The Andals had an axe symbol (inspired from Labrys) when they came to Westeros but they dropped it. They became strictly patriarchal in Westeros but their origins were much more gender equal, if not matriarchal. The Andal invasion of Westeros is highly inspired from the Viking raids in Britain. Vikings too were more gender equal at the beginning and they too had a legendary leader like Hugor in the person Ragnar.

 

Whether the Faith would actually consider the likes of Craster or the other wildlings and free folk married is an interesting question. For the free folk Jon and Ygritte were effectively 'married' despite the fact that all they ever did was having sex - they are not civilized enough to distinguish between wives, paramours, lovers, and sex slaves, and also not between trueborn and illegitimate children. The whole bastard concept is not really important for them, it is known to them due to Mance's background and the story of Jon Snow, but they themselves don't look down on bastards because they don't know the concept.

 

The Faith does not consider the entire Northmen as bastards although they all marry in front of the trees

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I think the reason why Andals gave up slavery is more simple than that. Andals may be called 'conquerors' but in practice they were not. Except for the Vale and Riverlands, they did not become the actual rulers (and in Riverlands their rule was short-lived), they started to live in Westerlands, Stromlands, the Reach under the rule of First Men where Lannisters, Gardeners and Durrandons still were kings. Hence the Andals could not continue practice slavery under the kings who didn't tolerate it. 

 

And don't undersetimate religion. Most organized religions go against enslaving people of the same faith. As the First Men adopted the Faith of the Seven, it became an act against the Gods to enslave them.

 

 

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Mithras,

 

we don't have any contemporary quotations explaining what thralldom is, only later pro-Ironborn maesters defending it, and making a fuzz about how it is much different from the Eastern slavery. I'd say that the only real difference is that the ancient First Men didn't have any currency, and thus could not really sell their thralls. The Ironborn resent the currency idea in principle, preferring the 'iron price' and all that. They could participate in the slave trade, and would most likely do it, if their very culture was not this dead-set against trade in general.

 

Claiming thralls have certain rights etc. doesn't differentiate them from slaves - who may also have certain rights in the Eastern cultures, although not the right of not being sold, and not the right of giving birth to free men.

 

I'd say the ancient First Men of Westeros weren't refined enough cultures to outlaw any type of marriage. If women are chattel - and women are chattel still in Westeros - then no man cares about how many wives his neighbor has so long as this doesn't cause any problems. One assumes that polygamy was only ever practiced among (so-called) royalty, and once it became clear that, say, twenty sons from seven wives or something like that was causing more trouble than it was worth polygamy would have fallen out of practice.

But I'd assume that even with them monogamy may have been the ideal (or not, we don't know anything about that, really). But the point is, that George has said that kings pretty much can do whatever they want even if it is against 'the law' (whatever that may have been besides 'I have the bigger sword' back in the old days) and thus the examples of ancient polygamy among various kings may not be a sign that it was 'allowed' or a common practice but rather that some people successfully got away with it.

 

There is no reason to assume that the Andals weren't not always a patriarchal society, and they were never vikings in the sense the Ironborn were. Unlike the Ironborn or vikings the Andals came to stay from the start. They left their homeland to settle permanently in Westeros, and apparently never intended to build a bigger realm encompassing land on both shores of the Narrow Sea.

 

The Andals seem to have brought certain marital norms based on religious doctrine which would have made polygamy somewhat more difficult even for the people 'above the law' if the Andal ideal was strict monogamy. The story of Hugor may contradict this, though - on the other hand, if Hugor is pretty much an invented fairy-tale character loosely based on that Hukko chap, then his many wives may have just been a way to emphasize the fact that he was powerful and rich (many wives means many sons, and both means power and prestige). The same is expressed in the stories about fertile Garth Greenhand or the Grey King of the Ironborn.

I'd assume many wives did more harm then good for the actual kings, and pushing the Faith in that matter - if it ended up preaching against it and condemning those who practiced it - may have become ever more dangerous and risky in the centuries in which the Faith Militant and the High Septon acquired more and more actual power.

 

It is quite obvious that the Faith usually accepts or can be made to accept First Men marriages, but it is quite another matter whether the wildlings and the free folk actually do marry in any meaningful sense. A Northern marriage is some sort of ritual involving the spouses, a heart tree, and some witnesses while it seems to be enough for a the average free folk guy 'to steal' (i.e. successfully rape and subdue) a woman to be married. Craster does something similar to his daughters, and the clansmen and the Ironborn practice a similar thing (although the whole salt wife thing has become somewhat more refined than it was in the old days - originally one expects that rape and the intention to keep the woman would have been enough to make her a salt wife).

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Mithras,

 

we don't have any contemporary quotations explaining what thralldom is, only later pro-Ironborn maesters defending it, and making a fuzz about how it is much different from the Eastern slavery. I'd say that the only real difference is that the ancient First Men didn't have any currency, and thus could not really sell their thralls. The Ironborn resent the currency idea in principle, preferring the 'iron price' and all that. They could participate in the slave trade, and would most likely do it, if their very culture was not this dead-set against trade in general.

 

Claiming thralls have certain rights etc. doesn't differentiate them from slaves - who may also have certain rights in the Eastern cultures, although not the right of not being sold, and not the right of giving birth to free men.

 

Pro-ironborn maesters?

 

What is worse is that you are perfectly aware of the quotes I was going to provide to disprove your baseless opinions yet you are willfully going against them or trying to twist them.

 

According to you Victarion is a pro-ironborn maester too because he differentiates between slavery and thralldom.

 

There is absolutely nothing (other than prejudice or willful ignorance) to suggest that the quotes about the difference between chattel slavery and thralldom are the products of a "pro-ironborn maester." In fact, such a ridiculous assumption defies reason and logic. The ironborn practiced thralldom in the living memory perhaps. Do you think those “pro-ironborn maesters” were skillful enough to deceive everyone about the nature of thralldom and slavery?

 

I'd say the ancient First Men of Westeros weren't refined enough cultures to outlaw any type of marriage. If women are chattel - and women are chattel still in Westeros - then no man cares about how many wives his neighbor has so long as this doesn't cause any problems. One assumes that polygamy was only ever practiced among (so-called) royalty, and once it became clear that, say, twenty sons from seven wives or something like that was causing more trouble than it was worth polygamy would have fallen out of practice.

But I'd assume that even with them monogamy may have been the ideal (or not, we don't know anything about that, really). But the point is, that George has said that kings pretty much can do whatever they want even if it is against 'the law' (whatever that may have been besides 'I have the bigger sword' back in the old days) and thus the examples of ancient polygamy among various kings may not be a sign that it was 'allowed' or a common practice but rather that some people successfully got away with it.

 

There is no reported law banning polygamy, neither in the present time nor in the past. Unless you can quote such a law, all of this is baseless speculation. Besides, “getting away with it” pretty much makes it legal for practical concerns.

 

This does not in any way imply that every First Man was polygamous back in the day. No. Much like slavery, only those who could afford to take care of multiple wives should have practiced polygamy. 

 

There is no reason to assume that the Andals weren't not always a patriarchal society, and they were never vikings in the sense the Ironborn were. Unlike the Ironborn or vikings the Andals came to stay from the start. They left their homeland to settle permanently in Westeros, and apparently never intended to build a bigger realm encompassing land on both shores of the Narrow Sea.

 

Then how do you explain the fact that the first Andals who came to the Vale carved two symbols, axe and the seven-pointed star, but they abandoned the axe in favor of the seven-pointed start for some reason at some point?

 

The Andals seem to have brought certain marital norms based on religious doctrine which would have made polygamy somewhat more difficult even for the people 'above the law' if the Andal ideal was strict monogamy. The story of Hugor may contradict this, though - on the other hand, if Hugor is pretty much an invented fairy-tale character loosely based on that Hukko chap, then his many wives may have just been a way to emphasize the fact that he was powerful and rich (many wives means many sons, and both means power and prestige). The same is expressed in the stories about fertile Garth Greenhand or the Grey King of the Ironborn.

I'd assume many wives did more harm then good for the actual kings, and pushing the Faith in that matter - if it ended up preaching against it and condemning those who practiced it - may have become ever more dangerous and risky in the centuries in which the Faith Militant and the High Septon acquired more and more actual power.

 

It is not certain whether Andals brought some marital norms or not.

 

It is quite obvious that the Faith usually accepts or can be made to accept First Men marriages, but it is quite another matter whether the wildlings and the free folk actually do marry in any meaningful sense. A Northern marriage is some sort of ritual involving the spouses, a heart tree, and some witnesses while it seems to be enough for a the average free folk guy 'to steal' (i.e. successfully rape and subdue) a woman to be married. Craster does something similar to his daughters, and the clansmen and the Ironborn practice a similar thing (although the whole salt wife thing has become somewhat more refined than it was in the old days - originally one expects that rape and the intention to keep the woman would have been enough to make her a salt wife).

 

Meaningful sense? Every culture has their own rites and ceremonies. The Faith does not have the right to look down on other cultures. Jogos Nhai women go out and steal husbands from other clans. This procedure is strictly overseen by the elders and no blood may be shed. It is considered as a lawful union by that community and if the Faith does not accept that, the Faith can go bugger themselves.

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