Theory for the Conclusion of a Major Part of the Saga in ADoS

[Westorosi Batgirl]

And how does Sansa will become Cercei's hostage again? Why Mad Cercei wouldn't kill her immedietly instead? She thinks Sansa killed Joff or conspiring to do that at least. So why would she take her as a hostage? What she could get for living Sansa and from who? This would be very interesting to resolve.

I agree and would like to add that being Cersei's helpless hostage again would do nothing for her character development.

[Farstrider]

This is a theory about how I see the conclusion of a major part of the series in ADoS. I think George might not have decided how exactly he will get to this ending in detail but this ending more or less should be his endgame.

 

Here is the draft:

 

• Dany will defeat Dorne as the last stronghold pursuing fAegon’s cause. Then, she will march on the KL.
• At this time, Cersei will still be in charge at the KL. Because neither Dany nor fAegon will have the opportunity or desire to take the KL while their rival lives.
• Sansa will be a hostage of Cersei again.
• The Mad Queen will reactivate the wildfire plot of Aerys.
• Arya (having killed Varys in KL already and witnessed the unstoppable UnGregor), will assemble a rescue team to get Sansa out of there before it is too late. She will need a team to be able to deal with the looming UnGregor.
• Arya will recruit Sandor for the task. Brienne and Pod will also be in the team. Jaime will help them from inside (probably after Brienne tells him that she is carrying his child). Cersei, like Aerys, will command Jaime to slay the intruders, especially Brienne whom she will be rightfully suspicious of having an affair with Jaime. Jon will join this team too. After all, UnGregor is a creature of necromancy, a threat to the Realm and his vows allow him to deal with this monster just like regular wights.
• Arya will lead the team through the secret passages she already know and will have learned more.
• Here we will finally have the Cleganebowl. Sandor will manage to slay UnGregor but he will not survive the fight. Pod will slay another KG (Osmund) but he will also take mortal wounds and die at the feet of Sansa.
• Jaime will go into the throne room and strangle Cersei with the Hand’s chain. Since he only has a single hand, Cersei will manage to draw his dagger and mortally wound him.
• This time, no one will be able to stop the pyromancers.
• The KL will be burned to crisp by wildfire.
• I will not be surprised if Arya dies in the confrontation, possibly staying by the wounded and dying Sandor while the wildfire rages around them and the ceiling collapses.

 

This chain of events will happen mid to end of ADoS.

 

I will save the explanations of the quotes for discussions in the further posts.

 

Foreshadowing for Jaime killing Cersei

 

“Lord Hallyne has assured me that his pyromancers can control the fire.” The Guild of Alchemists had been brewing fresh wildfire for a fortnight. “Let all of King’s Landing see the flames. It will be a lesson to our enemies.”

“Now you sound like Aerys.”

Her nostrils flared. “Guard your tongue, ser.”

“I love you too, sweet sister.”    

How could I ever have loved that wretched creature? she wondered after he had gone. He was your twin, your shadow, your other half, another voice whispered. Once, perhaps, she thought. No longer. He has become a stranger to me.

                                                                          

She thought of Joffrey, clawing at his neck. In his last moments he had looked to her in desperate appeal, and a sudden memory had stopped her heart; a drop of red blood hissing in a candle flame, a croaking voice that spoke of crowns and shrouds, of death at the hands of the valonqar.

 

“And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

 

Tyrion slid a hand under his father’s chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. “For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman’s hands are warm,” he said.

 

“No more than I want Joy to marry the son of some scheming turncloak bitch. She deserves better.” Jaime would happily have strangled the woman [Sybell Westerling] with her seashell necklace.

 

Note that a single hand is enough to strangle someone with a necklace.

 

Foreshadowing for Cersei killing Jaime

 

I thought that I was the Warrior and Cersei was the Maid, but all the time she was the Stranger, hiding her true face from my gaze.

 

“Prince Aemon the Dragonknight [parallel to Jaime] cried the day Princess Naerys [parallel to Cersei] wed his brother Aegon,” Sansa Stark said, “and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound.”

 

Foreshadowing for Jaime and Cersei dying together

 

I cannot die while Cersei lives, he told himself. We will die together as we were born together.

 

“My queen,” said Qyburn, “have you... forgotten? Ser Jaime has no sword hand. If he should champion you and lose...”

We will leave this world together, as we once came into it. “He will not lose. Not Jaime. Not with my life at stake.”

 

“Jaime? Have you had word?”

“None. Cersei, you may need to prepare yourself for—”

“If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me.”

 

Foreshadowing for the Rescue Operation

 

“I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.” Jaime smiled thinly. “Besides, kingslayers should band together.”

 

“True knights.” The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. “No doubt you’re right. So why don’t you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes [parallel of Brienne] and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight [parallel of Jaime] to come rescue you, sweetling. I’m sure it won’t be very long now.”

 

Sansa turned toward the sept. Two stableboys [foreshadowing to Arya and Pod] followed, and one of the guards whose watch was ended [foreshadowing to Jon]. Others fell in behind them.

                

“If it is Sandor Clegane that we encounter, what would you have me do?”

Pray hard, Jaime thought, and run. “Send him to join his beloved brother and be glad the gods made seven hells. One would never be enough to hold both of the Cleganes.”

 

Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane.

 

You stupid girl, the queen thought, angry even now. Jaime does not even know you are alive. Back then her brother lived only for swords [Arya] and dogs [Sandor] and horses [Brienne]... and for her, his twin.

 

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound [=Sandor]... Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful [=Jaime]... Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood [=UnGregor].

 

“I’ve heard his lordship say this war began when the Hand sent him out to bring the king’s justice to Gregor Clegane, and that’s how he means for it to end.”

 

Foreshadowing for the Hour of the Wolf

                                                                                               

Ned tried a swallow. “Dregs.” He felt as though he were about to bring the wine back up.

“All men must swallow the sour with the sweet. High lords and eunuchs alike. Your hour [The Hour of the Wolf] has come, my lord.”

“My daughters…”

 

It was late at night, during the hour of the wolf, when the remaining lords departed the council chamber, leaving Maegor to brood alone. Early the next morning, he was found dead on the throne, his robes sodden with blood, his arms slashed open by the barbs of the Iron Throne.

 

Lord Cregan Stark held sway at court. This came to be known as the Hour of the Wolf.

 

Ned was quite concerned for his daughters. Ned’s spirit might ask Jon to save them when the time comes. The Hour of the Wolf is named after a Stark coming down to the KL, kicking ass, doing justice and leaving. Also noteworthy that Maegor was last seen alive during the hour of the wolf. Cersei will surely steal some pages from Maegor’s book.

 

 

I like it and I would like for events to turn out that way.  Only Sansa leaves King's Landing alive.  Arya, Cersei, Jaime, Sandor, Gregor, Varys, and Podrick all die in KL. . 

 

There is only one minor issue.  Clean it up and it works for me.  Jon is not going to be involved.  He's either already dead or stuck in the north.  

[Mithras]

 
 
I like it and I would like for events to turn out that way.  Only Sansa leaves King's Landing alive.  Arya, Cersei, Jaime, Sandor, Gregor, Varys, and Podrick all die in KL. . 
 
There is only one minor issue.  Clean it up and it works for me.  Jon is not going to be involved.  He's either already dead or stuck in the north.  

I agree that Jon might not be in the team. The guard whose watch was ended might refer to Sandor too if he takes the black. I think there is a fairly good chance that Sandor taking the black.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

What's the Arya will kill Varys in KL theory?

[Colton Casados-Medve]

I personally don't see most of this happening. 

 

I feel like Jaime/Cirsei arc will be resolved long before Others storm over the entire North. I don't think Jamie and Cersei both have to die. I think Jaime's "betrayal" of Cirsei will be killing her and going on living (thus destroying her concept of how much they love each other), or simply not siding with her and abandoning her to go off somewhere else. 

 

I don't think Sansa or Arya will return to King's Landing. If a second Dance happens and a lot of people end up dying, like Cersei, Arya probably won't have any reason to return. Her list of people she wants to kill is getting shorter as time goes on, as they all kill each other off anyways. 

 

Sansa is currently safe. I wouldn't put it past GRRM to put her in danger again, but I don't see her dying either, since she has yet to have a full maturation as a character. In the beginning of the series she was naive and stupid, by the end she should be a woman fit for some important role. I don't see her having a role against the Others at all. 

 

I also don't see how Arya, with the last state of affairs she had with all of those people, would be capable of recruiting such a team easily and in a timely enough manner to go to KL, even if Sansa were a hostage again.

 

Also don't think Cersei would allow Sansa to live. She's getting crazier and crazier. Myrcella and Tommen will likely both die, driving her insanity further. Therefore I do think you are right when you say Cersei will start burning people with wildfire. LF definitely wouldn't turn over Sansa to Cersei either, reducing the risk she would ever end up in her hands again. I think LF's true weakness is that he truly did love Catelyn, and therefore would not allow Sansa to die. He may use her as a tool for his own ends, but I think he really does have a sort of perverted interest in her from the love he had of her mother. 

 

I think tWoW will serve these main purposes as far as the Others and political intrigue/plots go: 

 

1. The Wall will come down.

2. Others' origin/motives/backstory will be more fleshed out as well as Stark history (we know so much about the Targs and fire but so little about Starks and ice, and I feel this is where we will learn).

3. Part or all of the North will be overrun by the Others at the end of the book.I think Winterfell will survive due to its magic. If Sansa manages to somehow secure the North through the aid of Little Finger/the Vale, she may stock Winterfell with food and other necessities to survive the coming winter. 

4. The Iron Throne (if it exists, Cersei may very well raze all of KL in her bloody vengeance) will change hands yet again. Probably Aegon, or perhaps even a Martell. The real power of the Lannisters is finished. I don't see Dany's big entrance into Westeros until aDoS, if it happens at all. Her rejoining the Khalasar implies, at least to me, that a rather long journey somewhere in Essos is still necessary for Dany. Plus she is not on good terms with the Khal of that Khalasar so she will have to figure out how to come on top in that scenario. 

5. I think the Bolton's will finally meet their doom in this book as well. 

6. By the end of this book, most of the world will accept the fact that the Others are real. 

 

I can't speculate what will happen in aDoS just yet because its just so open to interpretation. Even the version of events I just outlined above are highly subject to being wrong, though I do think they are much more likely than your original list (no offense) and they take place in WoW not aDoS. 

 

I don't think the Others will take all of Westeros. In fact, I think the Others will be defeated before they manage to even kill/destroy everything in North. I don't see a Lord of the Rings style apocalyptic battle occurring between the living armies of Westeros/Essos and the undead armies of the Others. To me, the relatively small number of Others is revealing that their main weakness is going to be going around/ignoring their undead armies and cutting the head off the snake so to speak. If there are no Others, all those Wights will fall down and pose no threat. 

 

I think its likely that whatever happens with the Others will be seen by the rest of the world as something like, "Oh shit, that's crazy. Glad they put an end to that before it came over here. Phew." 

 

At this point, the wars and in-fighting from the previous six books will leave such a ruined kingdom that Dany will most likely opt to rule in Essos. I don't see a unified seven kingdoms at the end of aDoS. I see the North. I see the Vale (since its survived most of the destruction thus far, why wouldn't it just declare itself independent?). Lannister territory will likely be carved up (don't see Jaime or Tyrion having the influence to hold on to it by the end of tWoW). 

 

Tyrell/Martell territory will probably still be intact but a lot of their soldiers will be dead from civil wars by the end of tWoW. Huge influx of refugees from the North feeling the Others is going to strain all southern territories, making future conflicts even more difficult to fight. I think they will declare their own independence by the end of the series as well. 

 

Former Baratheon territory will probably be carved up or secured by a Baratheon bastard.

 

Its possible we'll have independent kingdoms based on origins. Such as First Men in the North, Andals in the middle, and Rhoynars in the Southern parts. Even if Dany has any role against the Others (I personally don't see it, as far as we know dragons had no role in the first long night and were always native to Essos before Targs brought them over), I think she will return to Essos at the end of it all and continue her quest of obliterating slavery/etc. 

 

I think most people who will survive this game until its end will see that having multiple kingdoms is actually more stable than one giant kingdom prone to the machinations of those within it. You kill one king (Robert) and you set off a chain reaction of civil wars due to claims that brings about untold misery and death. Three separate entities could act as a good checks and balance system, and the history of various houses within these regions and their relationships to each other is varied enough that you would have enough inter-marrying to stabilize things further. I don't see the feudal system of Westeros being overturned any time soon, if at all within that universe's entire future. 

 

Wow this got way too long. Sorry peeps, late night semi-drunken rambling (so also sorry for typos). 

[Mithras]

I don't think the Others will take all of Westeros. In fact, I think the Others will be defeated before they manage to even kill/destroy everything in North. I don't see a Lord of the Rings style apocalyptic battle occurring between the living armies of Westeros/Essos and the undead armies of the Others. To me, the relatively small number of Others is revealing that their main weakness is going to be going around/ignoring their undead armies and cutting the head off the snake so to speak. If there are no Others, all those Wights will fall down and pose no threat. 

 

I think its likely that whatever happens with the Others will be seen by the rest of the world as something like, "Oh shit, that's crazy. Glad they put an end to that before it came over here. Phew." 

 

According to the early draft of George, he has been preparing the Others as the greatest threat to the Realm. It will be more disastrous than Wot5K and Dany’s Invasion of Westeros. I don't see any change in George's plan regarding this broad narrative.

[Ahai Ahoy]

This Arya-Team, or A-Team if you will, sounds rather implausible, especially considering Arya's personality.

[Mithras]

This Arya-Team, or A-Team if you will, sounds rather implausible, especially considering Arya's personality.

 

Why not? She was the leading Gendry and Hot Pie in Riverlands. Her wolf is leading a giant pack.

[Criston of House Shapper]

I don't see Sansa being a hostage to Cersei again. We've been there already. There's no need to go back to where we were before, and there's not enough books left to stuff that in there.

[Mithras]

I don't see Sansa being a hostage to Cersei again. We've been there already. There's no need to go back to where we were before, and there's not enough books left to stuff that in there.

 

It depends on what you expect from Sansa in the rest of the books. As of the end of AFfC, Sansa's fear of Cersei is still a thing. How is she supposed to mature without overcoming that fear?

[Westorosi Batgirl]

It depends on what you expect from Sansa in the rest of the books. As of the end of AFfC, Sansa's fear of Cersei is still a thing. How is she supposed to mature without overcoming that fear?

How is she suppose to overcome her fear if she gets saved by the Westerosi Justice League instead of saving herself?

[Criston of House Shapper]

 

It depends on what you expect from Sansa in the rest of the books. As of the end of AFfC, Sansa's fear of Cersei is still a thing. How is she supposed to mature without overcoming that fear?

 

How does becoming a hostage again make her overcome her fear?

 

I think her arc goes more in the direction of having to make similar decisions that Cersei had to make and struggling with the question, "wait, is what I'm doing right now evil? Am I like Cersei?" Maybe she will hold someone hostage herself at some point and then reflect on her time in the Red Keep and so on.

 

I don't see her and Cersei meeting up again.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

Why not? She was the leading Gendry and Hot Pie in Riverlands. Her wolf is leading a giant pack.

I agree in this case.  Nymeria is hopefully foreshadowing a leadership role of some kind for Arya.

 

Though I have to say--as I've said before--that if Jaime kills Cersei over the Wildfire thing he won't waste time with strangling, he'd just use a blade like he did with Aerys.  If he strangles her it has to be for personal reasons.

[Sword of the Morgan]

Make sure Arya has twenty good men.

 

If she only had a wheelbarrow, that'd be something.

[Mithras]

How is she suppose to overcome her fear if she gets saved by the Westerosi Justice League instead of saving herself?

 

 

How does becoming a hostage again make her overcome her fear?

 

I think her arc goes more in the direction of having to make similar decisions that Cersei had to make and struggling with the question, "wait, is what I'm doing right now evil? Am I like Cersei?" Maybe she will hold someone hostage herself at some point and then reflect on her time in the Red Keep and so on.

 

I don't see her and Cersei meeting up again.

 

By subtle manipulation of Cersei into her doom as prophecized by Maggy.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

If she only had a wheelbarrow, that'd be something.

I believe she did, as Cat of the Canals.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

 

 

By subtle manipulation of Cersei into her doom as prophecized by Maggy.

Wouldn't that require Sansa to KNOW about the fortune?  

 

Actually the beauty of the fortune is that it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy--fulfilled by Cersei, herself, through her own actions. If she had acted differently at any point, it might have been just a fortune and not come true. 

[Colonel Green]

By subtle manipulation of Cersei into her doom as prophecized by Maggy.

Cersei is already causing her own doom.  And more to the point, if Sansa fell into Cersei's hands, she would be executed.  She would not be put on trial.

 

And the idea that Sansa would, on killing Littlefinger, just trust some random knight to flee the Vale, when she has lots of possible allies there, doesn't really make sense.  The Vale has been set up as a place where Sansa can play a major role as a political actor.

[Mithras]

Wouldn't that require Sansa to KNOW about the fortune?  

 

Actually the beauty of the fortune is that it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy--fulfilled by Cersei, herself, through her own actions. If she had acted differently at any point, it might have been just a fortune and not come true. 

 

No. Sansa does not need to know the prophecy to have a motive to destroy Cersei.

 

I hate self-fulfilling prophecies. I already discussed the laziness of Maggy's prophecy in another thread.

 

... And more to the point, if Sansa fell into Cersei's hands, she would be executed.  She would not be put on trial.

 

... And the idea that Sansa would, on killing Littlefinger, just trust some random knight to flee the Vale, when she has lots of possible allies there, doesn't really make sense. 

 

None of these opinions holds any weight unless you have a copy of TWoW at hand.

[Colonel Green]

None of these opinions holds any weight unless you have a copy of TWoW at hand.

Why do I need TWOW to assess the probability of events based on logic and what has already happened?