Wow I Never Noticed That V.12

[Lost Melnibonean]

What is this all about?

And so they went, the bells in their hair ringing softly, while Dany settled down with her small band of survivors in the place they named Vaes Tolorro, the city of bones. Day followed night followed day. Women harvested fruit from the gardens of the dead. Men groomed their mounts and mended saddles, stirrups, and shoes. Children wandered the twisty alleys and found old bronze coins and bits of purple glass and stone flagons with handles carved like snakes. One woman was stung by a red scorpion, but hers was the only death. The horses began to put on some flesh. Dany tended Ser Jorahs wound herself, and it began to heal.

Daenerys I, Clash

I asked a year ago in an old foreshadowing thread, and I saw a crackpot suggestion in a Daenerys reread thread by FireEater that it foreshadowed one of Oberyn's bastards killing Penny. There's got to be a better reason for this, no?

ETA

In Clash 12, Daenerys wonders what happened to the people of Vaes Toloro. In Clash 13, Jon wonders what happened to the people of Whitetree. In Clash 14, Arya wonders what happened to the people of the town on the south shore of the God's Eye.

ETA II

Like Tyrion, Shireen is associated with gargoyles. (Tyrion III, Clash 15)

[Whittyroar]

I'm embarrassed to admit how long it took me to notice R+L=J. Looking back on it, everything makes sense. I'm the kind of reader that needs to be hit on the head with something to realize that it's there. I am almost 100% convinced that this theory is true. 

 

At least I picked up on the whole Frey pie thing right off the bat. :) 

[twikee]

R+L=J

I read Kettleblack as "Kettleback" and when I finally saw I was wrong I now read it as "Blackkettle" because it's easier.

[Garbad]

I'm rereading all the books/prereleased chapters (for like my 10th time) and at the same time rewatched the show (2nd time).  I have a lot of small questions that hopefully ya'll can answer for me.  Please let me know if this is not appropriate.  If its allowed, I will add to it as I move along.

 

1.   When Dany meets Quaithe, she asks who she is.  She replies that she is no one.  That seems like its an awfully strange answer for a shadowbinder from asshai, as opposed to a faceless man from braavos.  She is connected to the class candles of oldtown, and seems to be helping dany know her true nature (fire and blood), but otherwise is an unknown.  What's her game?

 

2.  As I understand it, the original plan was to send in V. Targ with a dothraki horde to ravage the kingdoms, then let Faegon come in behind and "Save" them.  Doesn't this seem like a spectacularly stupid plan?  First, it weakens trust in targs in general -- they will be less winning to accept A after V weakens the targ brand, so to speak.  Second, war is forever uncertain.  Why risk battle against the horde which might go badly?  And why throw away a potential ally in any event?  I can't see any good reason to involve the dothraki at all. Just step in as the war of the 5 kings begins, as they knew it would.

 

3.  Speaking of the illyrio conspiracy, why didn't they ever approach various lords with marriage offers.  Vis to arriane to get dorne, fair enough.  Dany could have been given to robb and accept the terms robb offered renly.  aegon could have then either be disposed of or brough in had vis turned out to be unstable, and perhaps offered to margarey or someone else.  The king offers are admittedly flexible, but throwing away dany seems like a criminal waste.

 

4.  Why in the seven hells has Mel never sent a raven back east to say she found the "chosen one?"  They speak of dany, but never stannis.

 

5.  Is littlefinger sweetrobin's father?  He was banging lyssa for years, both in KL and RR.

 

6.  Speaking of insane plans, how about Tywin's reaction to Tyrion being taken.  I get it, he had a plan -- tyrion is took, so we need an equivalent hostage.  So he reaves the riverlands, knowing ned will go out in person and sort it out, then he can take ned and exchange him.  But jamie spoils this.  Still, this is an insane breach of the king's peace, and Tywin had no way of knowing Big Bobby B was about to get boared.  By all rights, no matter how his plan worked out the king should have come crashing down on the Lannisters for some combination of incest, reaving, attacking ned, and so on.  Why in the world would he gamble like that with no allies and no real chance of beating the north/riverlands alone even if everyone else stayed out of it?

 

7.  Varys at first hides the existence of the dragons in with other nonsense rumors, but eventually the major players have to know what's going on.  They also have to know that Dany has repeatedly said she plans to take back the 7k.  Despite this, no one seems concerned in the slightest.  Evidently extinct flying reptiles are birthed in the wilderness all the time, and having usurpers take a major city isn't particularly alarming as long as its on the other side of an easily navigable sea.  What. The. Hell.  Dany is closer to KL than winterfell is, yet no one seems concerned in the slightest.

 

8.  Why did jon get a stark direpup if he is actually R+L=J?  The runt albino driven away from the others makes sense if he is a stark bastard, but as a hidden targ it doesn't.  He's the blue rose, not a white direpup.

 

9.  IMO, the Knight of the Laughing Tree is clearly Lyanna.  Lady Lance (the sand snake) proves that GRRM thinks a 14 year old girl who likes horses can somehow joust and defeat trained men, so why not L?  All she needs is a magical booming voice (or a good yelling voice like the ned trained Robb to have), and everything else fits.

 

10.  Jaquen Hagar pulls a bait and switch on arya.  He tells her her list can be a prayer, and the many faced god will help her kill them all, one by one.  But once she is committed they tell her she can only kill those commanded.   Did GRRM just decide to include more random torture porn as filler?

 

11.  As bran goes north, he spends the night with a wull.  He also says he knows they are seen.  So the hill tribesmen know he is alive.  Why don't they share this with Jon at the wall, or with the other northern lords?  Or for that matter, why don't they try to contact robb, who is still alive at that point?  Bran is hiding from the boltons, but at that point the boltons are a few hundred men vs 3000 hill men.  Why didn't they just take them in?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Lady Blackmont]

Nice list. I look forward to answers also.

For #11, wasn't it a Liddle? I'm very pedantic with names.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

2: If you own both armies then you win either way.

Viserys comes in with the Dothraki and either wins, or almost wins and then fAegon comes in a cleans up (and earns the love of the people)

If you are running both armies it would be pretty easy for fAegon to be exactly where he needs to be to crush Viserys when the time comes.

 

3: Viserys and Daenerys were always the distraction to hide what the left hand was doing. You dont start marrying them off when they are disposable. And marriage offers would be with fAegon after he appeared

 

4: I dont think Mel is the official person in charge of anything. I think she is just a priestess that saw a vision and thinks she is working on the behalf of her God. Not necessarily some leader of the the Red church.

 

8: Jon is still a Stark, in fact he only gets the pup because he "hears" Ghost whimper. Ghost is mute so this I believe is part of his Warg gift and is possible because he is a Stark.

 

9: Lyanna is 100% TKotLT

[Garbad]

Nice list. I look forward to answers also.

For #11, wasn't it a Liddle? I'm very pedantic with names.

You are right, my mistake.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm rereading all the books/prereleased chapters (for like my 10th time) and at the same time rewatched the show (2nd time).  I have a lot of small questions that hopefully ya'll can answer for me.  Please let me know if this is not appropriate.  If its allowed, I will add to it as I move along.
 
1.   When Dany meets Quaithe, she asks who she is.  She replies that she is no one.  That seems like its an awfully strange answer for a shadowbinder from asshai, as opposed to a faceless man from braavos.  She is connected to the class candles of oldtown, and seems to be helping dany know her true nature (fire and blood), but otherwise is an unknown.  What's her game?
 
2.  As I understand it, the original plan was to send in V. Targ with a dothraki horde to ravage the kingdoms, then let Faegon come in behind and "Save" them.  Doesn't this seem like a spectacularly stupid plan?  First, it weakens trust in targs in general -- they will be less winning to accept A after V weakens the targ brand, so to speak.  Second, war is forever uncertain.  Why risk battle against the horde which might go badly?  And why throw away a potential ally in any event?  I can't see any good reason to involve the dothraki at all. Just step in as the war of the 5 kings begins, as they knew it would.
 
3.  Speaking of the illyrio conspiracy, why didn't they ever approach various lords with marriage offers.  Vis to arriane to get dorne, fair enough.  Dany could have been given to robb and accept the terms robb offered renly.  aegon could have then either be disposed of or brough in had vis turned out to be unstable, and perhaps offered to margarey or someone else.  The king offers are admittedly flexible, but throwing away dany seems like a criminal waste.
 
4.  Why in the seven hells has Mel never sent a raven back east to say she found the "chosen one?"  They speak of dany, but never stannis.
 
5.  Is littlefinger sweetrobin's father?  He was banging lyssa for years, both in KL and RR.
 
6.  Speaking of insane plans, how about Tywin's reaction to Tyrion being taken.  I get it, he had a plan -- tyrion is took, so we need an equivalent hostage.  So he reaves the riverlands, knowing ned will go out in person and sort it out, then he can take ned and exchange him.  But jamie spoils this.  Still, this is an insane breach of the king's peace, and Tywin had no way of knowing Big Bobby B was about to get boared.  By all rights, no matter how his plan worked out the king should have come crashing down on the Lannisters for some combination of incest, reaving, attacking ned, and so on.  Why in the world would he gamble like that with no allies and no real chance of beating the north/riverlands alone even if everyone else stayed out of it?
 
7.  Varys at first hides the existence of the dragons in with other nonsense rumors, but eventually the major players have to know what's going on.  They also have to know that Dany has repeatedly said she plans to take back the 7k.  Despite this, no one seems concerned in the slightest.  Evidently extinct flying reptiles are birthed in the wilderness all the time, and having usurpers take a major city isn't particularly alarming as long as its on the other side of an easily navigable sea.  What. The. Hell.  Dany is closer to KL than winterfell is, yet no one seems concerned in the slightest.
 
8.  Why did jon get a stark direpup if he is actually R+L=J?  The runt albino driven away from the others makes sense if he is a stark bastard, but as a hidden targ it doesn't.  He's the blue rose, not a white direpup.
 
9.  IMO, the Knight of the Laughing Tree is clearly Lyanna.  Lady Lance (the sand snake) proves that GRRM thinks a 14 year old girl who likes horses can somehow joust and defeat trained men, so why not L?  All she needs is a magical booming voice (or a good yelling voice like the ned trained Robb to have), and everything else fits.
 
10.  Jaquen Hagar pulls a bait and switch on arya.  He tells her her list can be a prayer, and the many faced god will help her kill them all, one by one.  But once she is committed they tell her she can only kill those commanded.   Did GRRM just decide to include more random torture porn as filler?
 
11.  As bran goes north, he spends the night with a wull.  He also says he knows they are seen.  So the hill tribesmen know he is alive.  Why don't they share this with Jon at the wall, or with the other northern lords?  Or for that matter, why don't they try to contact robb, who is still alive at that point?  Bran is hiding from the boltons, but at that point the boltons are a few hundred men vs 3000 hill men.  Why didn't they just take them in?
 
Thanks in advance.

That's a lot of ground to cover in one post. You might want to break it up a bit. You can search for appropriate threads on each topic by typing this into google...

search terms site:asoiaf/westeros.org

[Lost Melnibonean]

Nice list. I look forward to answers also.

For #11, wasn't it a Liddle? I'm very pedantic with names.

Yes.

[spoon89]

4. Ravens are not a something you address and send anywhere, they are trained to go to one point, rarely two if it is an usually smart bird.

 

10. No, this is one of the iffy things about the FM. Another is the talk about how their killing as a gift from their god, while charging people through the nose for the their services, and where is all the capital gained from those jobs?

[Garbad]

4. Ravens are not a something you address and send anywhere, they are trained to go to one point, rarely two if it is an usually smart bird.

 

10. No, this is one of the iffy things about the FM. Another is the talk about how their killing as a gift from their god, while charging people through the nose for the their services, and where is all the capital gained from those jobs?

4.  Well send a message some way then.  It seems a pretty important thing not to communicate.