Isobel Harper Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I found a (now) very noticeable reference to Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in ACoK. I think GRRM hints that commoners in KL still resent what happened to Elia's children. Below are the deaths of two men killed during the Riot of King's Landing and Lollys' rape. (Ref: ACoK, Tyrion page 600 US PB) Ser Preston's corpse had been overlooked at first; the gold cloaks had been searching for a knight in white armor, and he had been stabbed and hacked so cruelly that he was red-brown from head to heel. Ser Aron Santagar had been found in a gutter, his head a red pulp inside a crushed helm. Lady Tanda's daughter had surrendered her maidenhood to half a hundred shouting men behind a tanner's shop***. The gold cloaks had found her wandering naked on Sowbelly Row. ***Or perhaps someone was getting revenge for the "Pisswater Prince." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I found a (now) very noticeable reference to Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in ACoK. I think GRRM hints that commoners in KL still resent what happened to Elia's children. Below are the deaths of two men killed during the Riot of King's Landing and Lollys' rape. (Ref: ACoK, Tyrion page 600 US PB) Ser Preston's corpse had been overlooked at first; the gold cloaks had been searching for a knight in white armor, and he had been stabbed and hacked so cruelly that he was red-brown from head to heel. Ser Aron Santagar had been found in a gutter, his head a red pulp inside a crushed helm. Lady Tanda's daughter had surrendered her maidenhood to half a hundred shouting men behind a tanner's shop***. The gold cloaks had found her wandering naked on Sowbelly Row. ***Or perhaps someone was getting revenge for the "Pisswater Prince." Interesting. But to complete the parallel, shouldn't they have killed Lollys? Or tried to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annarkie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 When he puts a marriage cloak on her? Littlefinger's reaction would be priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The names Stark and Strong don't change in the German version. http://www.eis-und-feuer.de/index.php/haeuser-lexikon Now, that's just cheating. If you're going to translate every little thing (badly, imo), then you can't just not translate one name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I only recently dawned on me that Sansa is covered with Sandor's cloak TWICE. George said something in an interview that he likes to do things in threes. First time subtle: (Sandor giving her his cloak after Tyrion tells someone to cover her up when Joffrey ordered her stripped and beaten), Second time a little more clear: (he leaves her his cloak -this time bloody- after the Blackwater battle and she spends the night huddled under it and then keeps the thing.) Third time- In your face. I wonder if/ what the third incident will be? Actually I think it will be reversed at the end. Queen Sansa will make Sandor the LC of the Kingsguard. This time she will put the cloak on him. Sorry SanSans but I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern_Star Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 To Garbad from previous thread 3. Approaching various lords with marriage offers will mean you have to reveal your plans. Approaching Ned if he's willing to marry Robb to Dany? How do you figure that, with Ned so loyal to Robert? House Tyrell... Loras would never abandon Renly, and Dorne would not have been high on the list of concerns, I think. They were expected to join anyway to overthrow the Baratheons. For Aegon, they are needed not only for the swords and spears they bring, but to add a voice to his legitimacy. I wonder: North: Starks - Jon son of R+L Iron Islands: Greyjoy - Euron ?? Westerlands: Lannister- Tyrion Targaryen Son of Joanna + Arys Riverlands:Tully: - / Stromlands: Baratheon - descended from Targaryen Reach: Tyrell - Targaryen loyalists - Olenna+Aemon (show was hinting) Dorne: Martell - Daenerys to marry Quentin They just had to marry someone to the riverlands like jon - 1 big family! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria's Lunch Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 On my 5th read of the series, and just realized something. I always figured Sybell Westerling was sort of a double agent, but only because she had to in order to survive the wrath of house Lannister because of her daughter's and Robb's poor judgement. But now leaning toward Sybell and her brother Rolph Spicer contriving the scheme themselves beforehand to push her daughter Jeyne on Robb (to seduce him), as Robb's troops were in the area and likely to strike the Crag. Seducing Robb would cause Robb to lose the Freys. Tywin gladly accepted this scheme and promised to reward Sybell and Rolph handsomely for it. Not to mention Sybell was essentially a spy the whole time she was in Riverrun. The light went on when I finally was able to read in between the lines during this exchange between Tyrion and Tywin in Storm of Swords: "Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?" Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," he said, *forehead slap* 5 times through and still discovering hidden story that I missed the first 4 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Actually I think it will be reversed at the end. Queen Sansa will make Sandor the LC of the Kingsguard. This time she will put the cloak on him. Sorry SanSans but I don't see it. I like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avlonnic Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Actually I think it will be reversed at the end. Queen Sansa will make Sandor the LC of the Kingsguard. This time she will put the cloak on him. Sorry SanSans but I don't see it. That is a great one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 And, yeah. Hell and damit aren't curse words in German. :PPlease don't tell my kids. Only Daddy is allowed to utter such profanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Interesting. But to complete the parallel, shouldn't they have killed Lollys? Or tried to do so?And what about the High Septon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 On my 5th read of the series, and just realized something. I always figured Sybell Westerling was sort of a double agent, but only because she had to in order to survive the wrath of house Lannister because of her daughter's and Robb's poor judgement. But now leaning toward Sybell and her brother Rolph Spicer contriving the scheme themselves beforehand to push her daughter Jeyne on Robb (to seduce him), as Robb's troops were in the area and likely to strike the Crag. Seducing Robb would cause Robb to lose the Freys. Tywin gladly accepted this scheme and promised to reward Sybell and Rolph handsomely for it. Not to mention Sybell was essentially a spy the whole time she was in Riverrun. The light went on when I finally was able to read in between the lines during this exchange between Tyrion and Tywin in Storm of Swords: *forehead slap* 5 times through and still discovering hidden story that I missed the first 4 times.I've always disliked this theory, which is apparently supported by the app. But this quote pretty much clinches it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 And what about the High Septon? Elia was raped and killed.. Unless the High Septon and Lollys together are supposed to personify Elia in that scenario.. And the High Septon was ripped into pieces, wasn't he? That doesn't sound much like Elia's death either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Elia was raped and killed.. Unless the High Septon and Lollys together are supposed to personify Elia in that scenario.. And the High Septon was ripped into pieces, wasn't he? That doesn't sound much like Elia's death either.. No, I don't recall anybody being dismembered, quartered or dismembered during the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 No, I don't recall anybody being dismembered, quartered or dismembered during the sack. So I doubt that he fits the scenario that was proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annarkie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Actually I think it will be reversed at the end. Queen Sansa will make Sandor the LC of the Kingsguard. This time she will put the cloak on him. Sorry SanSans but I don't see it. That's pretty cool too. There is so much buildup with their interactions that I want to see SOME resolution to their entwined arc, even if it's not romantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I found a (now) very noticeable reference to Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in ACoK. I think GRRM hints that commoners in KL still resent what happened to Elia's children. Below are the deaths of two men killed during the Riot of King's Landing and Lollys' rape. (Ref: ACoK, Tyrion page 600 US PB) Ser Preston's corpse had been overlooked at first; the gold cloaks had been searching for a knight in white armor, and he had been stabbed and hacked so cruelly that he was red-brown from head to heel. Ser Aron Santagar had been found in a gutter, his head a red pulp inside a crushed helm. Lady Tanda's daughter had surrendered her maidenhood to half a hundred shouting men behind a tanner's shop***. The gold cloaks had found her wandering naked on Sowbelly Row. ***Or perhaps someone was getting revenge for the "Pisswater Prince." @those who replied Lollys doesn't die, but she does share the same "half a hundred" with Rhaenys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I like that! That is a great one! That's pretty cool too. There is so much buildup with their interactions that I want to see SOME resolution to their entwined arc, even if it's not romantic. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 The meeting place was a grassy sward dotted with pale gray mushrooms and the raw stumps of felled trees. Catelyn III, Clash 31 This is the opening line of the two paragraphs where the Baratheon brothers confront each other, and Stannis has his brother assassinated by dark magic. Mushrooms are often used in literature to poison or to symbolize poison, an allusion that is reinforced here by by describing the mushrooms as pale grey, a rather sickly hue. The trees have been cut down to build siege engines, but the image here suggests desolation and death. And "fell" in Middle English was an adjective for deadly evil. See how the George sets the mood for what's to come? ETA In my mind's eye, I've always pictured Storm's End as charcoal or black, but it is actually pale grey. ETA II Each of the three parties at the parlay at Storm's End consisted of one man and one woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 “How are you and your longbow getting on?” “I found a good book about archery.” Sam frowned. “Doing it is harder than reading about it, though. I get blisters.” “Keep at it. We may need your bow on the Wall if the Others turn up some dark night.” “Oh, I hope not.” At Sam's current location (Oldtown), there's someone conveniently closeby to teach him archery. Perhaps his archery skills will be needed someday after all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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