Wow, I Never Noticed That v. 13

[SerLinginBerry]

Varys...varies? Definitely feel like a dope realizing that now. Everything about Varys varies. Appearance, superficial allegiances, motives. 

Dammit.

[The Drunkard]

Jon thinks Stannis is dead, Stannis thinks Davos is dead, Davos will probably soon think Stannis is dead, and if/when Stannis survives Winterfell he'll think Jon is dead. Many happy reunions may be had.

[The Egg]

2 hours ago, The Drunkard said:

Jon thinks Stannis is dead, Stannis thinks Davos is dead, Davos will probably soon think Stannis is dead, and if/when Stannis survives Winterfell he'll think Jon is dead. Many happy reunions may be had.

Unless they die for real

[The Fattest Leech]

I just learned that the Hindi idiom for "when hell freezes over" is.... "When the sun rises in the west" 

http://www.omniglot.com/language/idioms/flyingpigs.php

Or, I could be full of shit 

[Lost Melnibonean]

 

Quote

Lightfoot, she moved to the big old willow that grew beside the bend in the road and went to one knee in the grass and mud, within the veil of trailing branches. You old gods, she prayed as the singer’s voice grew louder, you tree gods, hide me, and make him go past. Then a horse whickered, and the song broke off suddenly. He’s heard, she knew, but maybe he’s alone, or if he’s not, maybe they’ll be as scared of us as we are of them.

Arya II, Storm 13

We know, of course that The George wanted Arya to go with the Brotherhood Without Banners, but did Bloodraven also want Arya to go with the Brotherhood Without Banners? If so, why? 

[The Fattest Leech]

10 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

Arya II, Storm 13

We know, of course that The George wanted Arya to go with the Brotherhood Without Banners, but did Bloodraven also want Arya to go with the Brotherhood Without Banners? If so, why? 

Bloodraven wanted to fatten Arya up on a hot pie of Hot Pie so he could eat her like he's going to do to Bran with Jojen paste 

Threre is a curious coincidence on how a "singer" found her. I guess this could be possible if you are one who believes in the power of Berric comes from old gods and not R'hollor. The hidey-hole under the hill is very, very similar to BR cave with Bran.... So possibly. Arya is another Stark who has wolf dreams. I haven't figured BR out completely, I think he is up to no good, so maybe he is collecting gifted Starks because of some old oath or agreement?

[Isobel Harper]

The Noyne is ruled by Norvoshi river galleys as far south as the ruins of Ny Sar, where she joins the Rhoyne. - Wiki

Ny Sar is under control of Norvos.  And who has been in hiding around this area?

"Yollo," shouted Yandry as the Shy Maid passed the point, "tell me again of those Westerosi rivers as big as Mother Rhoyne."

"I did not know," he called back. "No river in the Seven Kingdoms is half so wide as this." The new river that had joined them was a close twin to the one they had been sailing down, and that one alone had almost matched the Mander or the Trident.

"This is Ny Sar, where the Mother gathers in her Wild Daughter, Noyne," said Yandry... - ADwD, Tyrion IV

And who is a noblewoman from Norvos?  Mellario of Norvos, Prince Doran's wife, and Aegon's aunt.

Not sure what this might mean, but I know it means something.

[Lost Melnibonean]

“I wish I had a good mean dog,” said Arya wistfully. “A lion-killing dog.”

Arya III, Storm 17

“I like dogs better than knights. My father’s father was kennelmaster at the Rock. One autumn year, Lord Tytos came between a lioness and her prey. The lioness didn’t give a shit that she was Lannister’s own sigil. Bitch tore into my lord’s horse and would have done for my lord too, but my grandfather came up with the hounds. Three of his dogs died running her off. My grandfather lost a leg, so Lannister paid him for it with lands and a towerhouse, and took his son to squire. The three dogs on our banner are the three that died, in the yellow of autumn grass. A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he’ll look you straight in the face.”

Sansa II, Clash 18

Well the Clegane dogs didn't kill the lioness, but you get the point. 

[The Snow Bear]

On 14.2.2016 at 5:58 PM, Truthbtold said:

Probably I'm full of shit, but Nymeria sounds to me like the German word niemand, which translates to "No one".

Having creative thoughts does never mean to be full of shit. 

But as a German I can't really find similarities.

As i read it Nymeria leans strongly on the "y" as in "why" (phonetically "aɪ")

"niemand" on the ohter hand is based on ie witch is pronounst like "ee" as in "sheep"  (phonetically "i")

Thus [Naɪmeria]  does not sound like [nimand] in my ears.

 

[Truthbtold]

 Gotcha, I've only ever read niemand so I was assuming a different pronunciation. Thanks! Great info Snow bear!

[Jon Weirgaryen]

2 minutes ago, Truthbtold said:

 Gotcha, I've only ever read niemand so I was assuming a different pronunciation. Thanks! Great info Snow bear!

I second @The Snow Bear's judgement.

However, just take the Greek nemo (meaning nobody) and you may be almost there.

[Stag Queen]

On 9.2.2016 at 2:29 PM, Isobel Harper said:

The torches on the back wall threw the long, barbed shadow of the Iron Throne halfway to the doors. The far end of the hall was lost in darkness, and Cersei could not but feel that the shadows were closing around her too. My enemies are everywhere, and my friends are useless. She had only to glance at her councillors to know that; only Lord Qyburn and Aurane Waters seemed awake. The others had been roused from bed by Margaery's messengers pounding on their doors, and stood there rumpled and confused. Outside the night was black and still. The castle and the city slept. Boros Blount and Meryn Trant seemed to be sleeping too, albeit on their feet. Even Osmund Kettleblack was yawning. Not Loras, though. Not our Knight of Flowers. He stood behind his little sister, a pale shadow with a longsword on his hip.

Qyburn and Aurane are in cahoots in some way.  Qyburn went to Aurane first when news of the Greyjoy attacks came.  Qyburn, as Master of Whispers, is playing the role of feeding information to Aurane as Varys did to Tyrion in ACoK and ASoS.  Perhaps Qyburn knows something that others don't?

Loras is possibly connected to this as well in some way, as he is also mentioned as being "awake."  Perhaps the beginning of Aurane planning/tricking Loras in whatever plot really happened on Dragonstone?

 

 

 

On 9.2.2016 at 3:38 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

But being awake doesn't necessarily mean those people were told first. Perhaps, they were not yet asleep. Isn't Qyburn still awake quite some time after this conversation ends, when Falyse arrives? Some time passes between her arrival and Qyburn being called, and before Falyse arrives, Cersei had already gone to bed again. 

Qyburn's power is directly connected to Cersei, and he should have every interest in being loyal to her. Aurane, though, is a completely different matter.

 

On 11.2.2016 at 1:15 PM, Isobel Harper said:

The scene appears to have taken place late at night, and the news so dire that everyone was rushed out of bed.  My thinking is that Qyburn, Aurane, and/or Loras were discussing this amongst themselves and/or someone before the meeting to gather details, possibly secrets from the informant.

Interesting. I think that not necessarly the persons, who where told first, but the persons who care most, would be the most awake. That explains Loras, Margaery and Qyburn (to smart to not care), but it´s interesting that Aurane cares. And that gets even better, when you consider that it´s Aurane who brings the news of Loras´ near death to Cersei. And aren´t Auranes informations the only ones we get to what happenend on Dragonstone?

[Bluetiger]

Outside the snow was falling still. Wet, heavy, silent, it had already begun to cover the footsteps left by the men coming and going from the hall. The drifts came almost to the top of his boots. It will be deeper in the wolfswood … and out on the kingsroad, where the wind is blowing, there will be no escape from it. A battle was being fought in the yard; Ryswells pelting Barrowton boys with snowballs. Above, he could see some squires building snowmen along the battlements. They were arming them with spears and shields, putting iron halfhelms on their heads, and arraying them along the inner wall, a rank of snowy sentinels. "Lord Winter has joined us with his levies," one of the sentries outside the Great Hall japed … until he saw Theon's face and realized who he was talking to. Then he turned his head and spat

This foreshadows battle inside Winterfell. I don't understand why between Ryswells and Dustins though.

Lights now shone through windows where Jon Snow had never seen lights shine before. Strange voices echoed down the yards, and free folk were coming and going along icy paths that had only known the black boots of crows for years. Outside the old Flint Barracks, he came across a dozen men pelting one another with snow. Playing, Jon thought in astonishment, grown men playing like children, throwing snowballs the way Bran and Arya once did, and Robb and me before them.

Fight inside Wall, between wildlings and clansmen?

Justin Massey waited until the uproar had died away. Then he said, "Your courage is admirable, Lord Karstark, but courage will not breach the walls of Winterfell. How do you mean to take the castle, pray? With snowballs?"

You know nothing Justin Massey. With Ryswells and Dustins.

[Stag Queen]

Rereading the scene:

"What of your new dromonds?", asked Ser Harys. "The longships of the ironmen can not stand before our dromonds, surely? King Robert´s Hammer is the mightiest warship in all Westeros" "She was", said Waters. "Sweet Cersei will be her equal once completed<...> Only half are fitted out, however and none is fully crewed

Same scene, shortly afterwards

"Lord Waters, are any of your new dromonds fit to put to sea?" "Sweet Cersei is, Your Grace. A swift ship and as strong as the queen she´s named for.

That ship just got completed within ten minutes?

Yes, I´m aware, that it maybe the ship is ready, but not perfect, but still, he goes from "Don´t take my dromonds, they aren´t ready" to advertising rather quick.

[Lost Melnibonean]

23 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

This foreshadows battle inside Winterfell. I don't understand why between Ryswells and Dustins though.

 

Fight inside Wall, between wildlings and clansmen?

 

You know nothing Justin Massey. With Ryswells and Dustins.

It's a pity wars are not fought with snowballs. I think the snowball fight and the snowy sentinels sets up the snowy lords, which is used to suggest that Stout, Dustin and Umber will join Manderly. Perhaps Ryswell or at least some Ryswells will not. 

[Philokles]

4 hours ago, Jon Weirgaryen said:

I second @The Snow Bear's judgement.

However, just take the Greek nemo (meaning nobody) and you may be almost there.

Nemo is Latin, but the point still stands. The Greek equivalent is outis, which would have been a nice Homeric reference.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

On 19.2.2016 at 10:35 PM, Sept Sev said:

Nemo is Latin, but the point still stands. The Greek equivalent is outis, which would have been a nice Homeric reference.

Ouch, stupid me. Thanks for pointing this out. And yes, nice reference to Odysseus.

[Isobel Harper]

On 2/19/2016 at 3:04 PM, Stag Queen said:

On 2/19/2016 at 3:04 PM, Stag Queen said:

Rereading the scene:

"What of your new dromonds?", asked Ser Harys. "The longships of the ironmen can not stand before our dromonds, surely? King Robert´s Hammer is the mightiest warship in all Westeros" "She was", said Waters. "Sweet Cersei will be her equal once completed<...> Only half are fitted out, however and none is fully crewed

Same scene, shortly afterwards

"Lord Waters, are any of your new dromonds fit to put to sea?" "Sweet Cersei is, Your Grace. A swift ship and as strong as the queen she´s named for.

That ship just got completed within ten minutes?

Yes, I´m aware, that it maybe the ship is ready, but not perfect, but still, he goes from "Don´t take my dromonds, they aren´t ready" to advertising rather quick.

Rereading the scene:

"What of your new dromonds?", asked Ser Harys. "The longships of the ironmen can not stand before our dromonds, surely? King Robert´s Hammer is the mightiest warship in all Westeros"

"She was", said Waters. "Sweet Cersei will be her equal once completed<...> Only half are fitted out, however and none is fully crewed

Same scene, shortly afterwards

"Lord Waters, are any of your new dromonds fit to put to sea?" "Sweet Cersei is, Your Grace. A swift ship and as strong as the queen she´s named for.

That ship just got completed within ten minutes?

Yes, I´m aware, that it maybe the ship is ready, but not perfect, but still, he goes from "Don´t take my dromonds, they aren´t ready" to advertising rather quick.

I just re-read that chapter (Cersei VII).  Aurane Waters gives a second contradiction in those same two scenes.  First, he suggests that the Redwyne fleet should defend The Reach, then he suggests that the Redwyne fleet should continue the siege on Dragonstone and Storm's End.  (He suggests these things, but doesn't give an opinion, subtly trying to influence the conversation.  Notice how Loras later nearly quotes Aurane in regards to only The Arbor having enough ships to defend The Reach.)

"Half as many ships would still be five hundred, my lord," Waters pointed out to Orton Merryweather. "Only the Arbor has enough strength at sea to oppose a fleet that size."

"What of your new dromonds?" asked Ser Harys. "The longships of the ironmen cannot stand before our dromonds, surely? King Robert's Hammer is the mightiest warship in all Westeros."

"She was," said Waters. "Sweet Cersei will be her equal, once complete, and Lord Tywin will be twice the size of either. Only half are fitted out, however, and none is fully crewed. Even when they are, the numbers would be greatly against us. The common longship is small compared to our galleys, this is true, but the ironmen have larger ships as well. Lord Balon's Great Kraken and the warships of the Iron Fleet were made for battle, not for raids. They are the equal of our lesser war galleys in speed and strength, and most are better crewed and captained. The ironmen live their whole lives at sea."

Then, a few pages later...

"Only the Arbor has sufficient galleys to retake the mouth of the Mander from the ironmen and protect my brothers from their longships during their crossing. I beg Your Grace, send word to Dragonstone and command Lord Redwyne to raise his sails at once."  (Loras)

...

Aurane Waters bristled at Ser Loras's suggestion. "If Lord Redwyne sails his ships away, how are we to supply our men on Dragonstone? Without the Arbor's galleys, how will we maintain the siege of Storm's End?"

...the Knight of Flowers sank to one knee. "Your Grace, let me take Dragonstone."

..."Your courage takes my breath away, Ser Loras," Cersei said. "Lord Waters, are any of the new dromonds fit to put to sea?"

"Sweet Cersei is, Your Grace. A swift ship, and as strong as the queen she's named for."

First, Aurane downplays the dromonds when it's suggested they assist The Reach against the Ironborn.  Then, he feels they are fit to fight when the conquest of Dragonstone and Storm's End is mentioned.  It appears that Aurane wished to keep his dromonds out of The Reach and get the Redwyne fleet out of Dragonstone and Storm's End. 

Ultimately, Aurane's and Loras' conquest leads to a defenseless east.  (Redwyne, et al. sail to The Reach.)  This lack of defenses leads to an easy (more or less) conquest of The Stormlands for Aegon and the Golden Company.  Perhaps this was Aurane Waters intent.  (Or perhaps Aurane was working under the assumption that Stannis had hired the Golden Company¹.)  Or perhaps the simultaneous defenseless east via Aurane and Aegon's conquest is a coincidence, and Aurane only wanted to free the eastern waters in order to become a pirate.  But that's one heck of a coincidence.

(¹In Cersei IV, three Cersei chapters previously: "Whilst we await Lord Walder's death, there is another matter," said Aurane Waters. "The Golden Company has broken its contract with Myr. Around the docks I've heard men say that Lord Stannis has hired them and is bringing them across the sea.")

[Isobel Harper]

Noticed this yesterday during my re-read of AFfC Cersei VII

Drown, thought Cersei. "Highgarden has gold as well. You have my leave to hire sellsails from beyond the narrow sea."

"Pirates out of Myr and Lys, you mean?" Loras said with contempt. "The scum of the Free Cities?"

He is as insolent as his sister. "Sad to say, all of us must deal with scum from time to time," she said with poisonous sweetness. "Perhaps you have a better notion?"

"Only the Arbor has sufficient galleys to retake the mouth of the Mander from the ironmen and protect my brothers from their longships during their crossing. I beg Your Grace, send word to Dragonstone and command Lord Redwyne to raise his sails at once."

At least he has the sense to beg. Paxter Redwyne owned two hundred warships, and five times as many merchant carracks, wine cogs, trading galleys, and whalers. Redwyne was encamped beneath the walls of Dragonstone, however, and the greater part of his fleet was engaged in ferrying men across Blackwater Bay for the assault on that island stronghold. The remainder prowled Shipbreaker Bay to the south, where only their presence prevented Storm's End from being resupplied by sea.

Aurane Waters bristled at Ser Loras's suggestion. "If Lord Redwyne sails his ships away, how are we to supply our men on Dragonstone? Without the Arbor's galleys, how will we maintain the siege of Storm's End?"

Subtle allusion to Aurane, the pirate. 

(ETA:  Aurane was also a sellsail in Stannis' fleet.)

[The Snow Bear]

I needed three runs of the books and two runs of Dunk and Egg to find out, that Brienne hat Dunks shield painted as hers