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Rhaenys_Targaryen

Wow, I Never Noticed That v. 13

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Don't be so sure. I don't believe it but he may be dead already...

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I' d need a cleaver to claim them.

...

The corsairs had come aboard in the darkness before the dawn, as the Meadowlark was anchored off the coast of the Disputed Lands. The crew had beaten them off, at the cost of twelve lives. Afterward the sailors stripped the dead corsairs of boots and belts and weapons, divvied up their purses, and yanked gemstones from their ears and rings from their fingers. One of the corpses was so fat that the ships cook had to cut his fingers off with a meat cleaver to claim his rings. It took three Meadowlarks to roll the body into the sea. The other pirates were chucked in after him, without a word of prayer or ceremony.

 

 

When Illyrio and Tyrion leave Pentos, Tyrion says

 

"The fastest way to Volantis is by sea.",

 

and Illyrio answers

 

"The sea is hazardous," replied Illyrio. "Autumn is a season rife with storms, and pirates still make their dens upon the Stepstones and venture forth to prey on honest men...."

 

so I'm thinking he probably avoided sea travel.

 

Besides which, I really don't see Illyrio being part of a pirate boarding party at this point in his life.

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Illyrio sounded sad because he wanted to see his son fAegon. I doubt he is dying anytime soon, he is just fat.

Or he simply sounded sad because he won't be able to see the boy he had raised as a son (but isn't his son).

 
 
I wonder if the Braavosi will make any move against Pentosh. Something could happen then.

Is there currently any reason for the Braavosi to do so?

 
The chapters aren't always in chronological order.

That's true, ut it would be odd for someone to die and then to show up two chapters later.

Also, both Quentyn and Tyrion are bound to the same POV restrictions, timeline wise, as both are travelling to Dany (in their own speed, of course).

Don't be so sure. I don't believe it but he may be dead already...

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I' d need a cleaver to claim them.

...

The corsairs had come aboard in the darkness before the dawn, as the Meadowlark was anchored off the coast of the Disputed Lands. The crew had beaten them off, at the cost of twelve lives. Afterward the sailors stripped the dead corsairs of boots and belts and weapons, divvied up their purses, and yanked gemstones from their ears and rings from their fingers. One of the corpses was so fat that the ships cook had to cut his fingers off with a meat cleaver to claim his rings. It took three Meadowlarks to roll the body into the sea. The other pirates were chucked in after him, without a word of prayer or ceremony.

Why would Illyrio go on someone else's ship from Lys to Volantis? He said he'd remain in Pentos and meet up with them in Westeros. If for some reason he had changed his mind, he would have taken his own ship.

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3.  Not all at once, at various times they could have adjusted though.  IE, offer for robb after he was TKOTN.  I agree dorne is locked in, but others should be swayed by offers.  Why not make them, particularly compared with the cost (dany was otherwise thrown away for nothing).
 
4.  The high priest.  There is clearly a hierarchy with operational goals (ie, convert king robert).  Finding the chosen one of the lord is pretty important news.  Why not send a messenger and 1) ask for military help and/or 2) at least inform them and let them advise.
 
5.  Could be.
 
6.  He would be responsible for his bannerman regardless.
 
7.  To me at least it defies belief that dragons being reborn wouldn't be mentioned.  This isn't the other side of the world, all have contacts/spies.  And as busy as robb was pounding that sweet, sweet volantine booty he could spare 5 minutes for news that literally changes the course of history.  It seems impossible to suppress or ignore this magnitude of news.
 
8.  But not a stark.

2. We don't know the full extend of Ilyrio and Varys's plans, so it is a bit hard to say. Still, approaching such lords will mean a reveal of plans, and that's what you want to avoid if you wish to keep them a secret for as log ad possible.

Dany wad not thrown away. Dany meant 40.000 Dothraki. That's quite an army. And if she had died as Illyrio had thought she would have, there would have been one chance less of having a lord claim the throne for his child/grandchild by a Targaryen Princess.

Also, with Viserys named heir by Aerys, and with Daenerys named heir by Viserys, both of them needed to go before Aegon's claim, at least between the Targaryen claimants, woul. be unchallanged.
Nor would Viserys have ever given up the throne he felt was rightfully his. He had been crowned a king, after all.

4. Melisandre works alone. No one sent her.

6. If Tywin knew Robert was about to die, that problem falls away.

And as I said, there was no visible proof that could be laid in front of the throne to proof it was Gregor. That's something Tywin relied on.

7. News of Dany's dragons existing can only begin to travel once she has arrived in Qarth. She arrives there only a few months before Robb dies, and the North does not have spies of their own in Essos. So that the Northern lords and lords of the riverlands learn later, is quite logical.

Varys has spies, so he'd learn of it sooner. However, most of Westeros can rely on only sailor's tales, and those are to be taken with a grain of salt.

The girl from Volantis is TV!Robb's bride. Book!Robb marries Jeyne Westerling whilst in the Westerlands.

8. Robb is half a Tully. Why should he be allowed to get a direwolf whilst another half-Stark (Jon) isn't? It is about he blood, not the name.

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When Illyrio and Tyrion leave Pentos, Tyrion says
 
"The fastest way to Volantis is by sea.",
 
and Illyrio answers
 
"The sea is hazardous," replied Illyrio. "Autumn is a season rife with storms, and pirates still make their dens upon the Stepstones and venture forth to prey on honest men...."
 
so I'm thinking he probably avoided sea travel.
 
Besides which, I really don't see Illyrio being part of a pirate boarding party at this point in his life.

He traveled back and forth to meet Varys, and had his own ship, which Salladhor captured.

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Or he simply sounded sad because he won't be able to see the boy he had raised as a son (but isn't his son).

Is there currently any reason for the Braavosi to do so?

That's true, ut it would be odd for someone to die and then to show up two chapters later.

Also, both Quentyn and Tyrion are bound to the same POV restrictions, timeline wise, as both are travelling to Dany (in their own speed, of course).

Why would Illyrio go on someone else's ship from Lys to Volantis? He said he'd remain in Pentos and meet up with them in Westeros. If for some reason he had changed his mind, he would have taken his own ship.

I said I don't believe he is dead. But if that's not him it has to be foreshadowing... it's too coincidental. Perhaps Jon Connington will cut off his hand?

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What do you make of these two sentences as Sansa slipped out of Maegor's Holdfast on her way to the godswood to meet the white knight she thought would take her home from King's Landing...

When something brushed against her leg, she almost jumped out of her skin, but it was only a cat, a ragged black tom with a chewed-off ear. The creature spit at her and leapt away.

Sansa II, Clash 18

Is that just a little Easter egg recalling the last cat caught by Arya, or is the George trying to tell us something here?

These two sentences are followed by these two paragraphs....

By the time she reached the godswood, the noises had faded to a faint rattle of steel and a distant shouting. Sansa pulled her cloak tighter. The air was rich with the smells of earth and leaf. Lady would have liked this place, she thought. There was something wild about a godswood; even here, in the heart of the castle at the heart of the city, you could feel the old gods watching with a thousand unseen eyes.

Sansa had favored her mother's gods over her father's. She loved the statues, the pictures in leaded glass, the fragrance of burning incense, the septons with their robes and crystals, the magical play of the rainbows over altars inlaid with mother-of-pearl and onyx and lapis lazuli. Yet she could not deny that the godswood had a certain power too. Especially by night. Help me, she prayed, send me a friend, a true knight to champion me...

Sansa II, Clash 18

ETA

Sansa found herself thinking of Lady again. She could smell out falsehood, she could, but she was dead, Father had killed her, on account of Arya. 

Sansa II, Clash 18

Does Sansa ever stop blaming Arya for Lady's death?

ETA II

Oh wow! I never noticed that Dontos was sent to Sansa right after Tyrion asked Petyr to go to Lysa to offer Myrcella's hand to Robert Arryn. Petyr believed he was about to leave King's Landing for the Vale, soon to be made Lord of Harrenhal with a very valuable hostage at the Eyrie.

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Are you suggesting he substituted Sansa for a Myrcella-plot? As in, maybe MYRCELLA was to be betrothed to Harry the Heir at first?

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The plan for LF to marry Lysa came much later, didn't it? Only after the Blackwater. So LF would have only been sent to the Vale to discuss Myrcella's betrothal to Robert. I think he thought he was supposed to return to KL after arranging the betrothal..

Not that that plan was ever to happen. Tyrion had send a letter to Doran, and whoever would have told Cersei about Tyrions plans regarding her children, that letter would have left for Sunspear. Myrcella to Dorne would always have been the outcome.

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Are you suggesting he substituted Sansa for a Myrcella-plot? As in, maybe MYRCELLA was to be betrothed to Harry the Heir at first?

No. The Myrcella-Robert proposal was a ruse by Tyrion to expose Cersei's informer. Tyrion also told Varys that he would send Tommen to foster was Doran's ward, and gave two messages to Pycelle (knowing he would open one) with his genuine offer to wed Myrcella to Trystane. That was Clash 17. In Clash 18, Petyr has sent Dontos to meet Sansa. To gain her trust, Dontos tells her to think of him as her Florian. (Who do you think came up with that idea?) No hairnet yet, just a promise to send her home when the time is right.

Interestingly, in the Tyrion chapter, Petyr notes that Joffrey will never release his plaything.

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The plan for LF to marry Lysa came much later, didn't it? Only after the Blackwater. So LF would have only been sent to the Vale to discuss Myrcella's betrothal to Robert. I think he thought he was supposed to return to KL after arranging the betrothal..

Not that that plan was ever to happen. Tyrion had send a letter to Doran, and whoever would have told Cersei about Tyrions plans regarding her children, that letter would have left for Sunspear. Myrcella to Dorne would always have been the outcome.

But as soon as Petyr has this opportunity, he initiates a plan to seperate Samsa from Joffrey and Cersei.

Keep in mind that at this point, Renly is marching on King's Landing, and I think Petyr, assuming that Renly would win, intended to back him. But he could not yet have anticipated the Lannister-Tyrell alliance and his plotto aassassinate Joffrey with Olena.

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Why were LF's boots dusty from riding just before he betrayed the Ned?



Good question! If we knew where he was always off to, we could answer a ton more questions ;)
 
eta-- just caught up on SQ, and I have to say I agree this is not simple dust from running aroung KL. The dust and wearing the same clothes indicates he left the city overnight. Hmmm...

We know that LF brokered Tyrion's deal with the Tyrells after Renly's death. But is there any evidence to suggest that LF met with Renly and Loras as they fled KL?

And why does Varys tell LF that Robert named Eddard regent and protector?

Perhaps Varys did not tell Petyr; perhaps Renly did...

"Now look at the other side of the coin. Joffrey is but twelve, and Robert gave you the regency, my lord. You are the Hand of the King and Protector of the Realm. The power is yours, Lord Stark. All you need do is reach out and take it. Make your peace with the Lannisters. Release the Imp. Wed Joffrey to your Sansa. Wed your younger girl to Prince Tommen, and your heir to Myrcella. It will be four years before Joffrey comes of age. By then he will look to you as a second father, and if not, well . . . four years is a good long while, my lord. Long enough to dispose of Lord Stannis. Then, should Joffrey prove troublesome, we can reveal his little secret and put Lord Renly on the throne."

Eddard XIII, Game 47

I am thinking that Petyr was in cahoots with Renly and Loras.

He is a child still, Stannis declared, his anger ringing loud in the empty hall, a thieving child who thinks to snatch the crown off my brow. What has Renly ever done to earn a throne? He sits in council and jests with Littlefinger, and at tourneys he dons his splendid suit of armor and allows himself to be knocked off his horse by a better man. That is the sum of my brother Renly, who thinks he ought to be a king. I ask you, why did the gods inflict me with brothers? 

Prologue, Clash

"I am of the king's council, yet not the king's blood, so I would make a poor hostage. I knew Ser Loras passing well when he was here at court, and gave him no cause to mislike me. Mace Tyrell bears me no enmity that I know of, and I flatter myself that I am not unskilled in negotiation."

Tyrion VIII, Clash 38

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According to Cat, Raynald Westerling, the one Westerling who is "supposedly" dead, reminds Robb of Theon and Jon Snow.

Theon's religions teaches that men can reborn after being drown in the sea.
Jon's been stabbed and he's likely going to return.

Raynald Westerling was hit by crossbows and fell into the river. He's aliveeeeeee.

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What do you make of these two sentences as Sansa slipped out of Maegor's Holdfast on her way to the godswood to meet the white knight she thought would take her home from King's Landing...

Sansa II, Clash 18
 

When something brushed against her leg, she almost jumped out of her skin, but it was only a cat, a ragged black tom with a chewed-off ear. The creature spit at her and leapt away.

 

My copy of ACoK is loaned out right now so I can't get you the exact quote, but when Sansa has her "flowering nightmare" a few chapters later some of the imagery (getting stabbed repeatedly in the abdomen) strongly resembles the way Rhaenys was murdered. My take is that Rhaenys did indeed warg into Balerion when she died, and she made some sort of mental contact with Sansa, another potential warg.
 

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Did anyone happen to notice that -

 

there are two frogslayers in the story, and they have some similarities?

 

Meera Reed has green eyes and wears bronze scale armor. She is very competent at hunting frogs.

 

Rhaegal is green with bronze highlights. He killed Quentyn "Frog" Martell.

 

I wonder if that's supposed to be a hint about other possible links between them.

 

It might also be pertinent to point out that the sigil of House Marsh is 10 green frogs on gold. If Meera ever makes it back to the Wall at Castle Black, Bowen Marsh might be in for a bad day.

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According to Cat, Raynald Westerling, the one Westerling who is "supposedly" dead, reminds Robb of Theon and Jon Snow.

Theon's religions teaches that men can reborn after being drown in the sea.
Jon's been stabbed and he's likely going to return.

Raynald Westerling was hit by crossbows and fell into the river. He's aliveeeeeee.

With Talbert Serry...

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My copy of ACoK is loaned out right now so I can't get you the exact quote, but when Sansa has her "flowering nightmare" a few chapters later some of the imagery (getting stabbed repeatedly in the abdomen) strongly resembles the way Rhaenys was murdered. My take is that Rhaenys did indeed warg into Balerion when she died, and she made some sort of mental contact with Sansa, another potential warg.
 

I'm m going with Bloodraven given the 1k eyes reference. Other than "wouldn't it be cool if" speculation is there any support for Rhaenys slipping into Balerion?

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With Talbert Serry...

 

So I imagine Talbert clinging to the keel of Victarion's Iron Victory in Slaver's Bay, driving his ghostly sword further up Victarion's arm with the drowned god's blessing and Moqorro's curse.

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