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The Valkyrie of the FM - theory about the First and the First Reborn


sweetsunray

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I see what you mean. Hmm. Trying to think of someone who is comparable to Arya. So far, all the Pompadur type courtesans we see are rags to riches and power women, or let's say, used all their feminine attributes to ensnare their targets. Cersei is high born but also resorts to sex to achieve her goals. I think if there's anyone that can serve as a good example and parallel for Arya in the role of a non-prostituting, but feminine and seductive politically savvy woman, it's the Queen of Thorns, Lady Olena. She is high born, like Arya, and just as prickly, married and probably the mind behind the scenes. I'd have to go over chapters featuring her but seem to recall that she was an attractive young lady. Even the name is a connection to Arya - Queen of Thorns, a rose sigil, evoking Lyanna. And Renly's odd notion that Margery resembles Lyanna. 

Don't worry, there's hope, I would say :)

 

 

^^^ that's an interesting comparison Evolett. The monicker fits. And the Queen of Thorns did carry out the most badass assassination in the story, killing King on the day he married her granddaughter using a poison amethyst in a hairnet, all the while framing Tyrion and completely obscuring her own trail. That's pretty high level assassination. And remember the QoT response to Arya's pronouncement that Joffrey is indeed a monster - it was something like "well that's too bad." As if the kitchens were out of cheese or something. Thats cold, and it reflects a high level of confidence in her abilities.

Yes, Lady Olena is a good example of an intelligent and possibly well-balanced person who can resolve conflictive situations with some kind of "good" justice.

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Deep down, i feel that IF there was to be an azor ahai reborn, it would be Arya.

 

Whats the prominant demonstration of rh'llorian magic, other than Melisandre/moqorro? Beric, and Lady Stoneheart. Not just magic, but POWERFUL demonstration of that ability.

What has Arya been training for? To kill mercifully, without judgment, and to abandon her past and become no one.

The Lady sees Arya, validating her vengeance and melting the wrath away. The Lady can be put to rest.

The Lady implores Arya to let her rest, to kill her mercifully

Arya, with tears in her eyes, knows this is the last link (that she knows of) to her past, and stabs her mother (perhaps even with Needle)

The magic, within beric, and now the lady, flows and seeps into Needle

 

but, what do i know, i wont even finish that thought either

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^^^ that's an interesting comparison Evolett. The monicker fits. And the Queen of Thorns did carry out the most badass assassination in the story, killing King on the day he married her granddaughter using a poison amethyst in a hairnet, all the while framing Tyrion and completely obscuring her own trail. That's pretty high level assassination. And remember the QoT response to Arya's pronouncement that Joffrey is indeed a monster - it was something like "well that's too bad." As if the kitchens were out of cheese or something. Thats cold, and it reflects a high level of confidence in her abilities.

 

Excellent - it all fits!

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IMO, Arya's a better fit as Nemesis, Greek goddess of retribution. Retribution is what she does and who she is. And she feels connected to Nymeria, a very similar-sounding name.

 

We had a discussion on vengeance vrs. justice in relation to Arya previously in this thread - check out earlier pages ;)

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IMO, Arya's a better fit as Nemesis, Greek goddess of retribution. Retribution is what she does and who she is. And she feels connected to Nymeria, a very similar-sounding name.


from what I can see, George combines many mythological influences in most of his characters, depending on what fits with the character he is building. I kinda forget the Nemesis story; I'll have to look that up. :)
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I see what you mean. Hmm. Trying to think of someone who is comparable to Arya. So far, all the Pompadur type courtesans we see are rags to riches and power women, or let's say, used all their feminine attributes to ensnare their targets. Cersei is high born but also resorts to sex to achieve her goals. I think if there's anyone that can serve as a good example and parallel for Arya in the role of a non-prostituting, but feminine and seductive politically savvy woman, it's the Queen of Thorns, Lady Olena. She is high born, like Arya, and just as prickly, married and probably the mind behind the scenes. I'd have to go over chapters featuring her but seem to recall that she was an attractive young lady. Even the name is a connection to Arya - Queen of Thorns, a rose sigil, evoking Lyanna. And Renly's odd notion that Margery resembles Lyanna. 

Don't worry, there's hope, I would say :)

 

 

@A-Faceless-Woman

 

I see your point about being tempted. If she were to surpass her abilities, then she wouldn't be the Valkyrie she is supposed to be. On the contrary, who knows if she would be doing "selfish" or "unfair" choices, and her hunger for revenge could go even further.

There will be a crucial moment when she will know, by instinct, what "justice" is, and then she won't be temped anymore. (If this theory turns out to be true)

 

 

I think that she should go to that world very prepared, and having learned a lot, and the FM are the ones who are testing her all the time. They are the only ones who know at which point of her training  she is.

 

Maybe asking her to be a courtesan would be a test (as you have said) of her current level. But I also think that they wouldn't take the risk before they are sure she is prepared for that mission(mentally).

 

@Evolett - Even in GRRM's stories, there's a little bit of hope :) 

Lady Olenna would indeed be a good example of a strong woman, and thanks for highlighting the rose parallel! 

 

@Meera of Tarth - Agree, they wouldn't give her a mission she's not ready for. 

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Deep down, i feel that IF there was to be an azor ahai reborn, it would be Arya.

 

Whats the prominant demonstration of rh'llorian magic, other than Melisandre/moqorro? Beric, and Lady Stoneheart. Not just magic, but POWERFUL demonstration of that ability.

What has Arya been training for? To kill mercifully, without judgment, and to abandon her past and become no one.

The Lady sees Arya, validating her vengeance and melting the wrath away. The Lady can be put to rest.

The Lady implores Arya to let her rest, to kill her mercifully

Arya, with tears in her eyes, knows this is the last link (that she knows of) to her past, and stabs her mother (perhaps even with Needle)

The magic, within beric, and now the lady, flows and seeps into Needle

 

but, what do i know, i wont even finish that thought either

As yet we have none of the main things that are supposed to identify AAR in Arya.  There are two books left though, so George can throw in some smoke, salt, and bleeding stars.  It would be a huge twist to have absolutely EVERYONE in the story be wrong about AAR, and it's a little girl with a sword her brother had made for her that turns magical.

 

ETA: Blaz, I don't want to get your hopes up but in my combing of SSMs I did find GRRM's words on the abandonment of the five year gap and something akin to if leaving out the gap means a twelve year old saves the world, so be it.  Arya should be 12 when the series ends...

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As yet we have none of the main things that are supposed to identify AAR in Arya.  There are two books left though, so George can throw in some smoke, salt, and bleeding stars.  It would be a huge twist to have absolutely EVERYONE in the story be wrong about AAR, and it's a little girl with a sword her brother had made for her that turns magical.
 
ETA: Blaz, I don't want to get your hopes up but in my combing of SSMs I did find GRRM's words on the abandonment of the five year gap and something akin to if leaving out the gap means a twelve year old saves the world, so be it.  Arya should be 12 when the series ends...


Actually, Arya does show some Azor Ahai symbolism, although it's well disguised. Check out the two chapters under Kings Landing with the dragon skulls. Specifically, Arya is the "Stranger" aspect of Azor Ahai (Azor Ahai is also the Smith and the Warrior at various times). Arya's strongest associations are with all the death figures - Lion of Night, Great Other (Nightwolf), the Many Faced God, the Stranger. GOHH calls her "blood child."

She's also got another side - the skinny squirrel. All through book two in the river lands, Arya is playing the role of a cotf. She's up in the kingdom of the leaves, all the squirrel references (the giants called the cotf "squirrel people"), the scenes at Acorn Hall, etc. I haven't figured out the implications of this, but it's really thick if you re read ACOK and look for it.

Perhaps Arya represents a faction of cotf who turned to darker magic, some kind of death magic. I'm open to ideas here. :)
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That night she left the House of Black and White. A long iron knife rode on her right hip, hidden by her cloak, a patched and faded thing of the sort an orphan might wear. Her shoes pinched her toes and her tunic was so threadbare that the wind cut right through it. But Braavos lay before her. The night air smelled of smoke and salt and fish. The canals were crooked, the alleys crookeder. Men gave her curious looks as she went past, and beggar children called out words she could not understand. Before long she was completely lost.
"Ser Gregor," she chanted, as she crossed a stone bridge supported by four arches. From the center of its span she could see the masts of ships in the Ragman's Harbor. "Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei." Rain began to fall. Arya turned her face up to let the raindrops wash her cheeks, so happy she could dance. "Valar morghulis," she said, "valar morghulis, valar morghulis." A Feast of Crows Arya II
 
Arya had her salt and smoke moment in Braavos. Even the House of Black and White is salt and smoke imagery
.
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That night she left the House of Black and White. A long iron knife rode on her right hip, hidden by her cloak, a patched and faded thing of the sort an orphan might wear. Her shoes pinched her toes and her tunic was so threadbare that the wind cut right through it. But Braavos lay before her. The night air smelled of smoke and salt and fish. The canals were crooked, the alleys crookeder. Men gave her curious looks as she went past, and beggar children called out words she could not understand. Before long she was completely lost.
"Ser Gregor," she chanted, as she crossed a stone bridge supported by four arches. From the center of its span she could see the masts of ships in the Ragman's Harbor. "Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei." Rain began to fall. Arya turned her face up to let the raindrops wash her cheeks, so happy she could dance. "Valar morghulis," she said, "valar morghulis, valar morghulis." A Feast of Crows Arya II
 
Arya had her salt and smoke moment in Braavos. Even the House of Black and White is salt and smoke imagery
.


Is "having a salt and smoke moment" anything like having a senior moment? Like, everyone is ordering food at the restaurant, and grandpa is dozing off, only to come awake suddenly and start babbling about salted and smoked pork? "Oh sorry I was dreaming I was Azor Ahai again..."
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Here LmL:
 
Euron's dragon egg was "tossed into the sea" which is code for left in Braavos, with the FM, as payment for offing Balon.
 
The titan of Braavos is made of stone, and is symbolic if the city.
 
Arya will wake a dragon from stone.


Haha, whatever the FM are doing with that egg I am pretty sure hatching it is not one of them. ;)
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Actually, Arya does show some Azor Ahai symbolism, although it's well disguised. Check out the two chapters under Kings Landing with the dragon skulls. Specifically, Arya is the "Stranger" aspect of Azor Ahai (Azor Ahai is also the Smith and the Warrior at various times). Arya's strongest associations are with all the death figures - Lion of Night, Great Other (Nightwolf), the Many Faced God, the Stranger. GOHH calls her "blood child."

She's also got another side - the skinny squirrel. All through book two in the river lands, Arya is playing the role of a cotf. She's up in the kingdom of the leaves, all the squirrel references (the giants called the cotf "squirrel people"), the scenes at Acorn Hall, etc. I haven't figured out the implications of this, but it's really thick if you re read ACOK and look for it.

Perhaps Arya represents a faction of cotf who turned to darker magic, some kind of death magic. I'm open to ideas here. :)

 

     There is a compelling connection to be drawn among Arya, the CotF of Westeros, and the Ifequevron of Essos.

 

In Clash of Kings, Arya X, Arya is practicing sword work up in the trees in the Harrenhal godswood.  This description of Arya is markedly similar to that of Leaf, the CotF in the cave with Bran. 

 

    She slashed at birch leaves till the splintery point of the broken broomstick was green and sticky. "Ser Gregor," she breathed. "Dunsen, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling." She spun and leapt and balanced on the balls of her feet, darting this way and that, knocking pinecones flying. "The Tickler," she called out one time, "the Hound," the next. "Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei." The bole of an oak loomed before her, and she lunged to drive her point through it, grunting "Joffrey, Joffrey, Joffrey." Her arms and legs were dappled by sunlight and the shadows of leaves. A sheen of sweat covered her skin by the time she paused. The heel of her right foot was bloody where she'd skinned it, so she stood one-legged before the heart tree and raised her sword in salute. "Valar morghulis," she told the old gods of the north. She liked how the words sounded when she said them.

 

 

The World Book informs us that during the war between the First Men and the CotF:

 

     The hunters among the children—their wood dancersbecame their warriors as well, but for all their secret arts of tree and leaf, they could only slow the First Men in their advance.  The greenseers employed their arts, and tales say that they could call the beasts of marsh, forest, and air to fight on their behalf: direwolves and monstrous snowbears, cave lions and eagles, mammoths and serpents, and more.

 

 

The World Book also tells us about the Ifequevron:

 

     In the southeast the proud city-states of the Qaathi arose; in the forests to the north, along the shores of the Shivering Sea, were the domains of the woods walkers, a diminutive folk whom many maesters believe to have been kin to the children of the forest ...

The God-Kings of Ib, before their fall, did succeed in conquering and colonizing a huge swathe of northern Essos immediately south of Ib itself, a densely wooded region that had formerly been the home of a small, shy forest folk. Some say that the Ibbenese extinguished this gentle race, whilst others believe they went into hiding in the deeper woods or fled to other lands. The Dothraki still call the great forest along the northern coast the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, the name by which they knew the vanished forest-dwellers.

     The fabled Sea Snake, Corlys Velaryon, Lord of the Tides, was the first Westerosi to visit these woods. After his return from the Thousand Islands, he wrote of carved trees, haunted grottoes, and strange silences. A later traveler, the merchant-adventurer Bryan of Oldtown, captain of the cog Spearshaker, provided an account of his own journey across the Shivering Sea. He reported that the Dothraki name for the lost people meant "those who walk in the woods." None of the Ibbenese that Bryan of Oldtown met could say they had ever seen a woods walker ...

 

All that ended two hundred years ago with the coming of the Dothraki. The horselords had hitherto shunned the forests of the northern coasts; some say this was because of their reverence for the vanished wood walkers, others because they feared their powers.

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     There is a compelling connection to be drawn among Arya, the CotF of Westeros, and the Ifequevron of Essos.

 

In Clash of Kings, Arya X, Arya is practicing sword work up in the trees in the Harrenhal godswood.  This description of Arya is markedly similar to that of Leaf, the CotF in the cave with Bran. 

 

    She slashed at birch leaves till the splintery point of the broken broomstick was green and sticky. "Ser Gregor," she breathed. "Dunsen, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling." She spun and leapt and balanced on the balls of her feet, darting this way and that, knocking pinecones flying. "The Tickler," she called out one time, "the Hound," the next. "Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei." The bole of an oak loomed before her, and she lunged to drive her point through it, grunting "Joffrey, Joffrey, Joffrey." Her arms and legs were dappled by sunlight and the shadows of leaves. A sheen of sweat covered her skin by the time she paused. The heel of her right foot was bloody where she'd skinned it, so she stood one-legged before the heart tree and raised her sword in salute. "Valar morghulis," she told the old gods of the north. She liked how the words sounded when she said them.

 

 

The World Book informs us that during the war between the First Men and the CotF:

 

     The hunters among the children—their wood dancersbecame their warriors as well, but for all their secret arts of tree and leaf, they could only slow the First Men in their advance.  The greenseers employed their arts, and tales say that they could call the beasts of marsh, forest, and air to fight on their behalf: direwolves and monstrous snowbears, cave lions and eagles, mammoths and serpents, and more.

 

 

The World Book also tells us about the Ifequevron:

 

     In the southeast the proud city-states of the Qaathi arose; in the forests to the north, along the shores of the Shivering Sea, were the domains of the woods walkers, a diminutive folk whom many maesters believe to have been kin to the children of the forest ...

The God-Kings of Ib, before their fall, did succeed in conquering and colonizing a huge swathe of northern Essos immediately south of Ib itself, a densely wooded region that had formerly been the home of a small, shy forest folk. Some say that the Ibbenese extinguished this gentle race, whilst others believe they went into hiding in the deeper woods or fled to other lands. The Dothraki still call the great forest along the northern coast the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, the name by which they knew the vanished forest-dwellers.

     The fabled Sea Snake, Corlys Velaryon, Lord of the Tides, was the first Westerosi to visit these woods. After his return from the Thousand Islands, he wrote of carved trees, haunted grottoes, and strange silences. A later traveler, the merchant-adventurer Bryan of Oldtown, captain of the cog Spearshaker, provided an account of his own journey across the Shivering Sea. He reported that the Dothraki name for the lost people meant "those who walk in the woods." None of the Ibbenese that Bryan of Oldtown met could say they had ever seen a woods walker ...

 

All that ended two hundred years ago with the coming of the Dothraki. The horselords had hitherto shunned the forests of the northern coasts; some say this was because of their reverence for the vanished wood walkers, others because they feared their powers.

 

The maiden of the tree :)

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Some very interesting points.  I'm not sure I completely agree though.  Not that they are mutually exclusive because GRRM isn't drawing that kind of 1:1 relation between series and mythology but I view Arya more as Hel then a Valkyrie. 

 

Hel the person is half a corpse (black/blue) and half pink flesh, fierce looking, stone cold. She became the ruler of Niflheim after she was thrown into one of the 9 rivers of the Niflheim by the gods.

 

 

The description of Hel as half black/blue half flesh colored could esaily be seen as half black half white just like the doors on the house of black and white.

 

While it's true Catelyn is literally thrown into the the river after she is killed Arya is figuratively cast out into the Riverlands and she still casts a very long shadow there in the form of Nymeria.  There are also many reference's to Arya and water or rivers  With the time GRRM spends emphasizing the cold mists in Braavos that seems like a better candidate for Niflheim, but again the two need not be mutually exclusive.  Arya, however is linked closely to both while Catelyn is at best only linked to the Riverlands.

 

While Valkyries do gather the dead, it's very specific that they gather those who die in battle.  The Kindly Man stresses that they FM are not butchers who slaughter their enemies face to face, their victims die of accidents disease, murder etc.  Virtually every cause BUT battle.  Those who die that way are not gathered by the Valkyries at all they belong to Hel.  Another way of looking at that is that for the most part the small-folk are not great warriors or heroes who die heroically in battle so they ultimatly belong to Hel.  Arya more than any character in the book is associated with the common everyday people of Westeros and Braavos.  They are her people much more so than any of the warriors from great houses that the Valkyries would gather.

 

There are some other possible links as well.  For example the giant hound Garm guards the entrance to Hel's domain.  The Hound after traveling with Arya is now a gravedigger, figuratively the entrance to the realm of the dead and could very well be Garm to Arya's Hel.  (Or Nymeria could be)

 

Hel's name literally translates as hidden or concealed.  Again this strongly connects to Arya as the HoBaW is teaching her to hide everything about her identify feelings and motives.

 

Getting into some more speculative stuff, Hel as has 2 siblings who play important rolls in Ragnarok when the armies of ice and fire have their final battle with the gods.  The first is the wolf Fenrir who is bound but breaks free of his bonds leading up to Ragnarok.  This could represent Jon who is figuratively a "wolf" due to his Stark lineage (be it from mother or father) and is bound by his others to the Knights Watch from taking part in the politics and wars of Westeros.  The second is the serpent (dragon) Jormungandr who is cast into the ocean but returns at Ragnarok so large and powerful it circles the world.  This could be Dany, who again is a represents a dragon due to her house, was figuratively cast into the ocean as an infant by Roberts Rebellion and looks destined to return to Westeros as the most powerful force in the world (perhaps circumnavigating the world along the way)

 

Assuming These relationships hold and that Dany and Jon are the first 2 "heads of the dragon" Arya, as Hel would make a logical third.  Hel does have a dragon Nidhogg who eats the courpses of the dead, and it the nTyrion smaple chapter he observes on of Dany's dragons eating corpses on the battlefield.  Dany - Jon - Arya would also line up with GRRM's originally planned romantic relationship between Jon and Arya and the romantic relationship between Dany and Jon hinted at in the HotU crating a triangle much like Aegon I and his two sisters.

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