Do the Mountain Clans Abandon Stannis?

[TheOne-EyedHound]

 
I'm just someone who realized that Stannis and the Northerners are allies of convenience. 
It shows that Stannis will not do his duty when he believes his life to be in danger. Why should the Northerners put a man like that on the throne.
Stannis is being compared to all the Starks by the Northerners. If you think it's unfair, that's unfortunate. Look at what Stannis did to the Stormlanders. I'm sure the Northerners would like to avoid that fate.

ha, get out of here. What good does comparing Stannis to all the Starks of old do? The Northerners alive at the moment never witness any of it, they did witness Rickard Stark marrying his heirs to Southerners instead of Northerners. They did witness Ned Stark( a good lord no doubt) do really nothing for them. They did witness Robb Stark for brief time, nothing special there.

I don't need to explain what Stannis has done for the North, many here with a mind have explained it well.

[Ser Eric]

It was a smart and brave move. Staying at KL was not being brave, it would have been stupid given what Stannis thought he knew.

[Winter's Cold]

ha, get out of here. What good does comparing Stannis to all the Starks of old do? The Northerners alive at the moment never witness any of it, they did witness Rickard Stark marrying his heirs to Southerners instead of Northerners. They did witness Ned Stark( a good lord no doubt) do really nothing for them. They did witness Robb Stark for brief time, nothing special there.

I don't need to explain what Stannis has done for the North, many here with a mind have explained it well.

 

The Northerners are the ones doing the comparison.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Ned was also planning on leaving KL. Was he a coward?

[Lady Blackmont]

ha, get out of here. What good does comparing Stannis to all the Starks of old do? The Northerners alive at the moment never witness any of it, they did witness Rickard Stark marrying his heirs to Southerners instead of Northerners. They did witness Ned Stark( a good lord no doubt) do really nothing for them. They did witness Robb Stark for brief time, nothing special there.

I don't need to explain what Stannis has done for the North, many here with a mind have explained it well.

Why do people always feel the need to downplay people/houses to support their claims? It's kinda lame.

[Winter's Cold]

Ned was also planning on leaving KL. Was he a coward?

 

Can you link the textual evidence for that? I only remember him trying to evacuate his family.

[Winter's Cold]

ha, get out of here. What good does comparing Stannis to all the Starks of old do? The Northerners alive at the moment never witness any of it, they did witness Rickard Stark marrying his heirs to Southerners instead of Northerners. They did witness Ned Stark( a good lord no doubt) do really nothing for them. They did witness Robb Stark for brief time, nothing special there.

I don't need to explain what Stannis has done for the North, many here with a mind have explained it well.

 

The Northerners saw how special Stannis was at Blackwater. Why would they fully commit to him after a disaster like that?

[Tijgy]

1. I think it is wrong to assume that Ned did not care at all about the Wildlings. When Robert went to visit him in WF, the first thing after some personal stuff Ned thought of they should send a message to Benjen. After they go to visit Lyanna and they talk about Jon's death and Robin Arryn, the first thing Ned wants to talk about, is the Wall. It was Ned and Benjen's plan to repopulate the Gift by putting their lordlings (who was going to pay taxes to the NW). So the Wall was very important to Ned and saying it wasn't, is completely wrong. 

 

2. The Northmen don't blame Robb for the fact they were attacked by the Ironborn and that Moat Caitlin, Deepwood Motte, Winterfell and Torrhen Square were attacked. The reason why Theon actually managed to conquer Winterfell and kill his Robb's brothers, was that the Winterfell's garrison was aiding Torrhen Square. Further, Robb was on his way to free the North, when he died at the Trident. 

 

3.  On one hand, Stannis did indeed help the NW in the fight against the Wildlings and he is officially a rally point of the North against the Boltons (The question about how much that is worth depends on the fact if anything of the GNC is true. Maybe they were already going to fight against the Boltons without Stannis).

 

But that is actually the only thing what Stannis did for the North. At the other hand, he never replied any of Ned's letters. While Ned was supporting his (rightful) claim to the North and was imprisoned for this, Stannis was staying safe at Dragonstone.

 

If you believe in blood magic, you can even say Stannis was indirectly responsible for the death of Robb Stark, who is now becoming a sort of legendary hero, as symbol for an independent North (to clarify, I mean the leeches). And while it might be irrational, you can maybe also say he was responsible for the deaths of the Northmen at the RW. So if they find out about the leeches, I think they will not really be happy.

 

I might be wrong, but was Stannis also not involved in the discussion of letting the Wildlings pas through South of the Wall (the first time, the prisoners)? How happy are the Northern Lords about that? After he aided the NW with the Wildlings, he started to demand food, castles on the wall, ... of the LC of the NW, an old institution that is supposed to be neutral? 

 

At the present time, Stannis' (most strongest) forces consist mostly of Northerners. His own troops (not Northerners) are very weakened. So if they win before the sellswords arrive, would it exactly not be more of a Northern victory than a Stannis' one. And after the "Northern civil war" is solved, what would Stannis expect them to do? Fight again in the south? For who, a Southeners who did not care about the North until recently? To die for some cause which they actually don't particular care about? If I am honest, I think Stannis should actually promise them a lot before they would ever aid them in quest for the Iron Throne; except he probably thinks they are obliged to aid him without any promises.

 

And will he expect the Northerners to supply food, while "winter is coming" and a lot of the North folk themselves are actually going to be hungry (see White Harbor). 

 

4. A large problem for the alliance between the Northern houses and Stannis is religion. I think the Northern houses will not very happy about the burning of the Godswood in Storms End and the fact the Wildings had to burn the weirwood to show their allegiance to Stannis. While Stannis is indeed atheist, he is still supported by Melisandre who actually says that the last greenseer and Bran are the minions of the Great Other. So he must be very careful in those religious aspects if he does not want to lose the Northerners. 

[Ser Eric]

 

The Northerners saw how special Stannis was at Blackwater. Why would they fully commit to him after a disaster like that?

 

I suppose they also saw what a raging disaster Robb and Ned were or are they as good as ignoring things they don't like as you?

[TheOne-EyedHound]

 
The Northerners are the ones doing the comparison.

Why? Stannis isn't trying to usurp the Starks out of Winterfell. Why would the Northerners need to compare Stannis to a Stark? Stannis is just trying to do Justice and in return is asking the North to do it's duty and fight with the one true King of Westeros. If the North chooses to betray him after restoring the North than that's fucked up.

[Free Northman Reborn]

It's a non-issue.

Martin will save the Northmen from having to betray Stannis just like he saved Jon from having to kill Mance in his tent during parley.

Stannis will be dead or presumed dead after the battle of the Lake. And Jeyne will be on her way to the Wall with Justin Massey.

Events will outpace this irrelevant plot dilemma very soon.

[Winter's Cold]

 

I suppose they also saw what a raging disaster Robb and Ned were or are they as good as ignoring things they don't like as you?

 

Robb and Ned at least never lost a battle. I wonder how the Stormlanders feel about Stannis? They probably regard him as a raging disaster and a loser.

[Lady Blackmont]

It's a non-issue.

Martin will save the Northmen from having to betray Stannis just like he saved Jon from having to kill Mance in his tent during parley.

Stannis will be dead or presumed dead after the battle of the Lake. And Jeyne will be on her way to the Wall with Justin Massey.

Events will outpace this irrelevant plot dilemma very soon.

I doubt it.

[spoiler]Stannis survives the BoI according to D&D[/spoiler]

[Winter's Cold]

Why? Stannis isn't trying to usurp the Starks out of Winterfell. Why would the Northerners need to compare Stannis to a Stark? Stannis is just trying to do Justice and in return is asking the North to do it's duty and fight with the one true King of Westeros. If the North chooses to betray him after restoring the North than that's fucked up.

 

If Stannis was the one true king, he would have won at Blackwater. Since he was crushed, he's now nothing but a failed usurper. He's a useful ally for getting rid of the Boltons but there's no need to die to put him on the Iron Throne.

[Ser Eric]

 

Robb and Ned at least never lost a battle. I wonder how the Stormlanders feel about Stannis? They probably regard him as a raging disaster and a loser.

 

If we are comparing resume's then Stannis shits all over both Robb and Ned. And Stannis is still alive which is more than I can say for the other two.

[TheOne-EyedHound]

Why do people always feel the need to downplay people/houses to support their claims? It's kinda lame.

I'm supporting the argument.

[Lady Blackmont]

If Stannis was the one true king, he would have won at Blackwater. Since he was crushed, he's now nothing but a failed usurper. He's a useful ally for getting rid of the Boltons but there's no need to die to put him on the Iron Throne.

King's do not have divine right in Westeros.

[Winter's Cold]

 

If we are comparing resume's then Stannis shits all over both Robb and Ned. And Stannis is still alive which is more than I can say for the other two.

 

The Stormlords would disagree. Blackwater is a defeat that Westeros will remember for centuries.

[Winter's Cold]

King's do not have divine right in Westeros.

 

I agree. Thus, there is no one true king. 

[TheOne-EyedHound]

 
If Stannis was the one true king, he would have won at Blackwater. Since he was crushed, he's now nothing but a failed usurper. He's a useful ally for getting rid of the Boltons but there's no need to die to put him on the Iron Throne.

They already accepted his Claim, the Karstarks did, and soon the Manderlys.The North taking out the Boltons destroys the Kings peace. Why would the North take out an ally?