Kalbear Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Seriously there is nothing wrong with liking cnaiur. There is something wrong with using reasons for liking him as a way to excuse, downplay or justify his behavior. Acknowledge his behavior is wrong but don't add a qualifying "but".so much this. Msj, you're the one who brought it up again. If you don't want to get called on it again, don't bring it up. I'm sure I'm hypocritical in a great many things. No big. I never said you can't enjoy who you want to. I said that the characters are, for me (and a lot of other people) fairly unlikeable. For some they will like those people in spite of these issues. For others they'll like them because of these things. Where you go wrong is denying that they occur at all because you like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Seriously there is nothing wrong with liking cnaiur. There is something wrong with using reasons for liking him as a way to excuse, downplay or justify his behavior. Acknowledge his behavior is wrong but don't add a qualifying "but". ...but...the grasses...made me fuck the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 ...but...the grasses...made me fuck the ground... The way they tickle and scratch your honeyed perineum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 ...but...the grasses...made me fuck the ground... The way they tickle and scratch your honeyed perineum... hahahaha Just wanted to add that it's possible to think a character is an awful human being but still think they are a great character. I *like* Cnauir, Conphas, Achamian, and Kellhus but also think they are all giant shitbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 LTI you are going to be eternally damned for speaking of Kellhus that way. You beg the knife sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 LTI you are going to be eternally damned for speaking of Kellhus that way. You beg the knife sir. WHO NOW WILL MURDER ME??? WHO WILL TAKE THE KNIFE TO MY HEART??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Davias made a Wutteat shirt: http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=793.msg22499#msg22499 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 LTI you are going to be eternally damned for speaking of Kellhus that way. You beg the knife sir. He'll also get...a frowning of a lifetime...for speaking of Achamian that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 hahahaha Just wanted to add that it's possible to think a character is an awful human being but still think they are a great character. I *like* Cnauir, Conphas, Achamian, and Kellhus but also think they are all giant shitbags. I think there's something to be said for trying to understand characters, without exonerating them. I mean one of the big points in the novels is conditioning, how the shadow of past morality [and abuse] colors everything. It would a sad pillar of the series if any character managed to escape the plate, so to speak. Even the most likable, humane characters are flawed - I think all of them at least cut deep with verbal criticism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 We've (the wife and I) have had this conversation multiple times. She agrees that the rape scene (and any rape scene in fiction, and there are countless depictions in every genre) is uncomfortable and is not something to gloat over. But, that alone does not define the character Cnaüir. IMHO, Cnaüir is quite possibly the most well written character in this genre. A murdering, raping, insane barbarian, yes. But, getting to delve into his physce is quite interesting. He's intelligent, the anti-Kellhus, he is a man unto himself. He offers you the perspective of someone who can foil (as much as possible) a Dûnyain. He loses his shit and I find it fantastic to read about. He offers justice, in his own way. I could go on, but, you get my point. There is so much more to him than the rape thing. Its just all you choose to focus on. Same with Akka. You look at the negatives and blow them up for everyone, then say, "How? How could you associate with such filth, how can you relate?." That sir, is hypocritical. Because, if you can name me one person in this world you doesn't have dirty laundry, I call you a liar. Maybe not in such heights as fictional characters we read about, but yes buddy their there, all around you. I feel you are just looking at anything to throw your arms up at, and be offended. Your highlighting the bad and ignoring what makes people like them, and that is the height of hypocrisy and self-awareness. Truth shines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Davias made a Wutteat shirt:http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=793.msg22499#msg22499 nice. was thinking maybe a onesie with most violent of all men on it. or adult undergarments with worship the spaces between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 nice. was thinking maybe a onesie with most violent of all men on it. or adult undergarments with worship the spaces between. Bakker onesies is so niche! How about "i was the only one born with less than 8 arms" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 who will take the binky to my heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 who will take the binky to my heart? +1 FOR BINKY REFERENCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Russian covers of The Second Apocalypse - https://www.reddit.com/r/bakker/comments/3irg42/russian_covers_of_bakkers_works/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Bakker onesies is so niche! How about "i was the only one born with less than 8 arms" This is amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Who's that on the fifth one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Incorrect rendition of Mimara? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Yeah that's what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Because, if you can name me one person in this world you doesn't have dirty laundry, I call you a liar. Maybe not in such heights as fictional characters we read about, but yes buddy their there, all around you. Aww, now you're bringing it home to some sort of practical application to real life! See the reason to go on about people (supposedly) liking the rape in the book or accepting it is to better enable the escapism from life. As long as all the fiction is hoovered free of bad things, that's all that matters - doesn't matter if there's real life sex slavery or such to battle. Just make sure the fiction is clean, for escaping to - and if a book raises our ugly human nature and someone doesn't rage against the author for that, then they are into rape or accepting of it! Every time these nasty things get in...it distracts from the escape into fantasy. And only monsters would distract from that! Monsters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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