Sci-2 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Welcome Odium! Hi all. This is my first post on the forum. I've been lurking for quite some time now, and between browsing the Bakker threads here and on Madness' Second Apocalypse forum I've grown familiar enough with the fandom to know what a nerdanel is. I've read the books along with some scattered rereads and frequent visits to confirm theories and things I've seen on the communities surrounding the series. I have a few questions, just things that I don't remember ever seeing answered while I lurked. Funny thing is Nerdanel may have been on to something.... Just a couple of my own thoughts on some aspects of the series and some of the common theories I've seen tossed around: 1. Is there any comprehensive analysis by someone of Achamian's dreams? I recall reading that Scott at one point mentioned that every one of Achamian's dreams somehow reflected the greater narrative. I couldn't find it just now as I perused through my copies of the books, but I feel like I remember picking up on a reread that in either TDTCB or TWP Achamian dreams of a library with a dragon in it. I can't recall any other specific examples, but it made me wonder if perhaps the encounter with Wutteat was being foreshadowed. I don't recall a library with a dragon, but I do recall the library opening up to a scene of the Whirlwind? 2. Personally, from the clues presented in the narrative and proposed by members of this and Madness' forum, I don't think Moenghus will continue to be involved in the story. Assuming you mean Big Moe, rather than Cnauir's son aka Lil' Moe? I think that the parallel of Inri Sejenus rising at another holy city and his own death being near one (someone articulated this parallel better than I did at some point) is interesting, and I haven't personally discarded the notion of Meppa being related to him somehow, but it would be lazy writing for Moenghus to suddenly be uncovered as responsible for anything in the second trilogy. I agree that Big Moe showing up would damn TUC [I mean the book, not the in-world group] unless it is handled incredibly well. I do think Meppa may have been someone converted to seeing at least some things the way Big Moe saw them, though Meppa seems to have greater recollection of the Whole based on his command of the Water. (Assuming that's how it works?) I personally believe that Moenghus couldn't see beyond the Thousandfold Thought, and that he correctly realized that the trial had broken Kellhus upon their meeting. However, I think that symbolically this represents something more along the lines of how they have both come to the limits of Dunyain's logic ability to parse their world, and Kellhus found a way to surpass that limit. I'd agree to an extent. I think Big Moe realized his own limitations and planned to die after his meeting with Kellhus. He conditions Kellhus beyond his own death, but Kellhus doesn't see it. I do think there is a limit to seeing the world the way the Dunyain do, in that there is something to Real that can't fit into the algorithms Kellhus utilizes. As Nerdanel once suggested, the Dunyain ultimately run Greedy Algorithms but this fucks them over in the long, long run. 3. As far as opinions go, what do you all think of the relative power levels between the main players? I'm curious what the Consult will have to stop him. Just going on a hunch from the series' overall flavor, I don't think Shae and the Inchoroi twins will be a match for Kellhus' sorcery in a straightup battle (although, considering the Gnosis is a fairly logical sorcerous discipline, I personally think that thousands of years without the Nonman problem of finite memory should have been long enough for the Consult to prepare themselves even for someone like Kellhus). Well it's not clear exactly how we should be ranking sorcerers. It sees the advantage of the Gnosis is in its purity of meaning, and that with Cleric the Nonman memory problem actually purifies his meaning to a greater degree by (if I understood the text) freeing the Nonman from the memories that occlude what we mean in the present moment. But there is also the purity of the Cish, which Titirga seemed to have partially grasped before even Fane came around. Shae, when recollecting Titirga's power, notes the archmage "seizes would should not be seized" (paraphrase). I think this might mean Titirga can not just carve up the onta but also partially alter the very ontological status of the world, the Ground, and this is why his stain seems purer. Reality isn't perfectly aligned to Titirga in the way it is with Fane's Cish magic but it does show that the Gnosis and the Psukhe could be blended. Does Kellhus posses enough passion to fill in the Cish part of Tirtiga's power? Unclear. I watched the SA podcast and, while thoughts rapidly branched off from the main idea of the in-series power levels (at least while I listened), some people thought that the Quya of Ishterebinth could probably match Kellhus. This too seems reasonable to me, but it makes me wish we could better stake out Kellhus' limits. Well keep in mind Kellhus seems to have a special skill with the manipulation of space, and with meta-gnostic cants in general. He can alter the altering of the onta, which means he might be able to twist the spells of others rather than merely battering down their defenses. 4. I once saw the theory proposed that the Captain of the Skin-Eaters was hinted to be a ciphrang. Could anyone point out for me where the books suggest this? I'm very curious because I would have liked to see the captain explored a little more as a character. Well Kosoter fears damnation, so I think he is just a fanatic or possibly a soul that was damned but somehow bounced back. The rules of the Outside seem to be regularities. (Same with the Inward, IMO, though those are less exploitable to souls bound in bodies.) 5. My personal thoughts about certain eventualities of TUC: Kelmomas' voice is Ajokli, in another expression of the gods' true agency in the world, and his arc is there to eventually lead into him saving his mother from the White-Luck. Also, I realize that his is the only Dunyain infancy we're able to observe, but he seems to be more talented from a younger age than any of the other half-Dunyain. I would sort of agree, given the naridanar (sp?) that the WLW replaced mentioned that the Four Horned Brother can see reality in a way other gods miss. At the same time, it would be a little weird to have the WLW simply be wrong about his time sight without some deeper explanation. I think Zeum will support Fanayal and destroy the empire Kellhus has left behind unguarded, and that this is all part of a greater scheme Kellhus has devised which none of the other Dunyain have foreseen and are thus unable to factor into their own lesser plans. I'm not sure what I think about the true purpose of the Great Ordeal, something tells me it is more than just a flesh palanquin for Kellhus to ride into Golgotterath on. I think Kellhus wants Zeum to take over the skeleton of the Empire in case he fails to stop the No-God from rising. That is assuming, of course, that Kellhus' plan isn't simply to control whatever the No-God is. Hm. I actually don't have anything to add besides that at the moment. Anyway! I'm glad to finally be a part of the little gaggle of thinkers that populate these threads and I hope to add something constructive to the discussions that arise here. :) See you on the Slog. Well, my advice is to keep in mind the most important question that remains unanswered is Why Don't Dragons Wear Chorae? :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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