Hypothetical: You're Robb Stark and You've Been Given a Second Chance

[A Ghost of Someone]

Well, he was doomed even if he did not go to the Twins. Cat released Jaime already and he cannot go home unless he goes through the Twins. This is why Robb made the deal and was glad to do it with Walder Frey. As Cat said, there is no other way. Robb was as good as dead. The Lannister and Tyrell armies would have seiged him at Riverrun and starved them out. With the Reach resources, it was a matter of time. This was why Roose Bolton switched sides and got rich marrying a fat bride in the process. That and his bastard had already trashed Winterfell. The Battle of the Blackwater and Edmure's Folly changed everything even after Robb broke his oath to Walder Frey and then took the head of Lord Karstark. Ser Jaime being released was the big one. Then again, if Theon had not gone home and the Iron born stayed out of it, Robb had all the cards so long as Ser Jaime stayed in his possesion. Blackwater or not. Tywin would not risk Ser Jaime's life.

[StarkofWinterfell]

I would've liked to see some heroic feat made possible when others thought it was impossible.

 

When Alexander the Great wanted to attack Tyre, which was an island city off the coast of Phoenicia, he built a causeway across the sea so he could attack it directly. Or maybe using some sort of makeshift bridge using boats like in the Battle of Garigliano in 1503

 

Certainly a few fire arrows would've set the Twins burning but perhaps the best thing to do would be to sound a retreat. The Boltons may or may not follow, but the gates would need to be opened to allow the Boltons thru.

[Light a wight tonight]

thelittledragonthatcould@ Yes but not all their men are close at hand are they? If I can just capture Roose and Walder then they can not go against me without having their lord killed.

The deal is that the various Freys have been hovering like vultures waiting for Lord Walter to die. They would consider it a favor for Robb to remove him. Even the kids like Big Walder and Little Walder know precisely which family members have to be removed to clear their path to the lordship. 

[Blazfemur]

inner troll in me: if robb was given second chance, or given life again, id say go to quiet isle and repent

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

 

Wait, from which point in the story are you assuming Robb's role here?

 

Because at no point is it realistic for Robb to sack the Twins, if it's early in the story, they're too well defended and time is of the essence anyways, you need all your men to defeat Jaime Lannister and free the Riverlands. If it's right before the Red Wedding, then they have too many soldiers, and Roose is set to betray you anyways.

 

Considering you include Renly, I'm going to guess it's before you're even crowned King in the North, in which case the whole "let Renly and Stannis deal with the Lannisters" plan doesn't exactly work, as the Lannisters are currently ravaging the Riverlands and already engaged with you anyways, and Renly doesn't want to move.

 

You can't really work your way out of the deal with the Freys, Walder has you by the balls since the very beginning.

I could not remember exactly when Renly died so just make it Stannis. Tywin being free to engage Stannis after the Red Wedding is what saved KL.

 

Roose was still on your side, and would be too afraid to cross you before the exact moment at the Red Wedding. If you needed to sack the Twins take Roose into your tent and hold him captive as his army helped yours to attack. His men are not going to know that they were about to turn on Robb's army.

 

Walder would have no idea that Robb was onto him so there is a chance that he might meet you outside to act like the loyal Bannerman.

 

With Stannis pushing towards KL, and if you just seal up the holds in the Riverlands (not leaving a force to defend them) and move your focus to the Westerlands Twin would need to choose to either rescue KL or protect the Westerlands. He cant do both.

 

I am not saying this a victory, it probably still ends with Robb dead, but it's something and you get some revenge.

[Ice Walker]

I think Robb's arc ended well even though I liked him. I consider his breaking of oaths is nothing compared to what other have done in this world, and yet getting one of the worst deaths. He will become a legend in the North with the reputations of "the Young Wolf" and the Stark who could only be defeated by treachery.

[Blazfemur]

i think an interesting "what-if" would be if robb went ahead and married the frey girl originally. THEN that would lead to interesting propaganda

[thelittledragonthatcould]

thelittledragonthatcould@ Yes but not all their men are close at hand are they? If I can just capture Roose and Walder then they can not go against me without having their lord killed.

 

Robb comes into the Twins. The Guards, the garrison even the majority of the wedding guests are all on the conspirators side. Robb has not a chance of arresting Walder. It is even weaker considering that even without Walder being safely inside how own castle but even outside there is more Frey soldiers than there are men loyal to Robb and that is not even counting the 3,500 with Roose.

[Ser Falione]

Run off with Catelyn, Jeyne and the loyal westerlings to Essos and meet up with Danaerys. 

[Caspoi]

thelittledragonthatcould,@ verylittlegravitasindeed@ But I thought that as Walder comes to greet you you have some handpicked men to which you give the order to arrest him and Roose.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

thelittledragonthatcould,@ verylittlegravitasindeed@ But I thought that as Walder comes to greet you you have some handpicked men to which you give the order to arrest him and Roose.

 

Walder does not come out to greet Robb, he remains inside sending Balck Walder and other Freys to meet him.

 

"My lord grandfather regrets that he cannot feed nor house so large a host. We have been sore pressed to find fodder and provender for our own levies. Nonetheless, your men shall not be neglected. If they will cross and set up their camp beside our own, we will bring out enough casks of wine and ale for all to drink the health of Lord Edmure and his bride."

 

Edmure even complains that Walder did not come to greet him

 

Edmure fell in beside Catelyn. "The Late Lord Frey might have seen fit to welcome us in person," he complained. "I am his liege lord as well as his son-to-be, and Robb's his king."

"When you are one-and-ninety, Brother, see how eager you are to go riding in the rain." Yet she wondered if that was the whole truth of it.

 

So as usual Walder was being cautious. Robb does not meet Walder until the feast at the Great Hall which is packed with Freys. Robb simply does not have enough men to arrest Walder, he may be able to kill more Freys if he knew about the attavk before hand but he would still be going to his doom.

 

The deal is that the various Freys have been hovering like vultures waiting for Lord Walter to die. They would consider it a favor for Robb to remove him. Even the kids like Big Walder and Little Walder know precisely which family members have to be removed to clear their path to the lordship. 

 

Why would any of the Freys trust Robb to keep his word? It is not like this is a case of Walder being the only one upset, the Freys were pissed and leaving Robb even before Walder knew it happened.

 

Something else was wrong as well. On the day her brother returned, a few hours after their argument, she had heard angry voices from the yard below. When she climbed to the roof to see, there were knots of men gathered across the castle beside the main gate. Horses were being led from the stables, saddled and bridled, and there was shouting, though Catelyn was too far away to make out the words. One of Robb's white banners lay on the ground, and one of the knights turned his horse and trampled over the direwolf as he spurred toward the gate. Several others did the same. Those are men who fought with Edmure on the fords, she thought. What could have made them so angry? Has my brother slighted them somehow, given them some insult?

[falcotron]

So the only recourse is to bargain with Tywin for exile or the Wall.

Wow, that would piss off Jon. He finally found a way to escape from Robb's shadow and become his own man, and now Robb shows up to compete with him there.

It would be like that SNL sketch where Martina Navratilova keeps showing up at everything Chris Evert does post-tennis and challenging her.

Kill the Westerling girl and marry Walder's virgin great great great great grand daughter

Just marry her and have two wives. Once you're assuming that Robb can do whatever he wants with no legal or moral consequences because he's King, why not? You think his people would gladly accept him murdering his wife just because she was inconvenient, but polygamy would be a step too far and the North would rise up in revolt?

[Caspoi]

thelittledragonthatcould@ ah, I got that part wrong, I thought that he met them directly when they arrived at the gate.

[Petyr_Baelish_is_cool]

Invite Roose in my war camp. Kidnap him and say to his army that lord Bolton is sick. Assasinate Ramsy. Besige the Twins. Raise a new host up North (Ryswells,Reeds...). Try to invite Wieldlings to fight for me and give them some land.
Manderlys would have some ships and land them with their man at Duskandale. Move Lysa from picture in Vale. And name my self lord protector and ading Vale to the war.
Try to make an allience with Dorn and Stannis.

[Ultima II]

Let's explore a hypothetical for a moment. You're Robb Stark and you've just been murdered at the Red Wedding. For whatever reason, the Old Gods decide to resurrect you and send you back one day with all the memories of the events intact. I liken it to Gandalf the Grey dying and being sent back as Gandalf the White to fulfill his purpose. (Just try to wrap your heads around this for a minute.)

 

So as King Robb, back alive a day before you're supposed to attend the wedding of Edmure at the Twins, what do you do?

 

If I was Robb, Id have a lot of different options to weigh that could turn out equally disastrous. Do you imprison Roose and have him executed? Do you set up camp and lay siege to the Twins? As Robb, which path would you take?

 

This could be a little fun so use your imagination and get those brain juices flowing!

 

I don't know if one day back in time would make a lot of difference.  He had already lost the Karstarks and he had already betrayed Walder Frey.  The Lannisters and the Tyrells have already partnered.  And, he had already declared himself King in the North.  Robert was generous to Balon when the latter rebelled, though Joffrey is unlikely to be generous to Robb the rebel.  He could refuse to attend the Red Wedding, the war would continue, and they would most likely loose to the Lannisters.  I think the Red Wedding was for the best, in terms of the Seven Kingdoms. 

 

Robb could sacrifice.  Let us say that he wants to make sure the Lannisters show generous mercy to the Riverlords and his bannermen.  Robb could agree to surrender himself and what remains of his family, give up wardenship of the North and Winterfell.  In exchange, the Tullys, the Freys, the Umbers, etc., will not be penalized for their rebellion.  The Tullys keep Riverrun and the Freys keep The Twins, no penalties.  In other words, Robb agrees to accept the full responsibility for the rebellion and put that responsibility on the shoulders of the Starks, and solely on the Starks, in the interest of all those who had fought bravely for his cause.   If given a chance and one day back in time, that is what I would like Robb to do, to protect those who have fought bravely for him and let the Starks family make the sacrifice.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

i think an interesting "what-if" would be if robb went ahead and married the frey girl originally. THEN that would lead to interesting propaganda

Sadly that was never going to happen.  It was undoubtedly Walder's stipulation to wait until after the war, because that way if it all went south he could claim he never had any intention of going through with the marriage contract.  The Late Lord Frey strikes again.

 

But you're right, it would have been interesting.  Though even if he still slept with Jeyne, I don't think Walder of the unknown number of bastards would have any right to complain about Robb not being faithful.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Sadly that was never going to happen.  It was undoubtedly Walder's stipulation to wait until after the war, because that way if it all went south he could claim he never had any intention of going through with the marriage contract.  The Late Lord Frey strikes again.

 

More likely it was because Riverrun was under attack and Cat was worried about how long they could hold out for. It would have been Cat who held off on the wedding, not Walder.

[Barty]

1. The Twins are too strong to take. So dont go there.

2. Let Roose join you - then kill him and his men (These are mainly Dreadfort and Karstark men - not loyal to you) in a surprise attack (Like Ramsay and Ser Rodrik).

3. Give the BF command of your 3.5k army to help defend the Riverlands but take your most loyal bannermen (Galbart Glover, GreatJon, Maege Mormont, Manderly etc) to Seagard where you take a couple of longships into the neck to meet up with Howland Reed.

4. The BF should now have about 15k men - enough that he will last some time against the Lannister/Tyrell alliance - though we know that it will be a long time before the Lannister/Tyrells can make a move on the Riverlands.

5. Go from Greywater to White Harbor and gather more men along the way (Manderly should be able to spare at least a couple thousand and this should be enough for Robb to take out the remaining IB) - liberate Torrhen's square, rebuild WF and retake DM (also if you run into Ramsay give him a good flogging). All this while give orders to all your lords bannermen to send their remaining levies to WH where you are building another host. 

6. Gather the Mountain Clans and march to the wall - Stannis should already be there. He offers you nothing so either get him to join you (never gonna happen) or kill him. 

7. Offer the wildlings and giants the same deal Stannis offered - fight for me and you get lands and your lives.

[Lord Wraith]

Surrender to Tywin, bend the knee to Joffrey, and hope for mercy.

 

Robb was doomed, pure and simple.

 

This really. A day won't give him enough time to change much of anything.

[Lady Sharya]

I think Robb's arc ended well even though I liked him. I consider his breaking of oaths is nothing compared to what other have done in this world, and yet getting one of the worst deaths. He will become a legend in the North with the reputations of "the Young Wolf" and the Stark who could only be defeated by treachery.

:agree: