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Ser Falione

Gendry is in love with Arya.

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What's your point? There isn't a sexual attraction between Arya & Gendry. It's a mutual crush.

 

I was making a general point about attraction and sexuality with children. They can be attracted (crush) without sexual desires; that even when they have  a personal sexual life as a child (as in children can masturbate) it's unrelated to sexual desire for another kid. And this in answer to the far above claim of "oooh, children crushing is pervy".

 

I agree there is no sexual desire between them. There is a physical and emotional attraction, but without the sexual component.

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Gendry and Arya's relationship (assuming they will get romantic) has some similarities to that of Robert and Lyanna. Ned did say Arya reminded him of Lyanna although besides his physical strength and looks, Gendry is nothing like Robert. What would be interesting is if Aegon falls in love with Arya and kidnaps her at swordpoint, forcing Gendry to go rescue her which results in Aegon getting his ribs smash in by Gendry's blacksmith hammer. After slaying his lover's kidnapper, Gendry takes the Iron Throne.

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You can pinpoint the moment in which she hits puberty by just seeing him.

:lol:

And this in answer to the far above claim of "oooh, children crushing is pervy".

That isn't how I read that post. I believe s/he was saying that adding a sexual component isn't grey but child molestation. Which is correct. The response to that post (that I responded to )was...in poor taste.

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Gendry and Arya's relationship (assuming they will get romantic) has some similarities to that of Robert and Lyanna. Ned did say Arya reminded him of Lyanna although besides his physical strength and looks, Gendry is nothing like Robert. What would be interesting is if Aegon falls in love with Arya and kidnaps her at swordpoint, forcing Gendry to go rescue her which results in Aegon getting his ribs smash in by Gendry's blacksmith hammer. After slaying his lover's kidnapper, Gendry takes the Iron Throne.


I like it.:)

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There are ten years old girl who have "boyfriends". The concept can exist without having a sexually context. They definitely don't think about sex, just more platonic stuff.
 
I'm not saying as ok, btw. In fact, I'm totally against the idea: it can sexualise kids. But, it doesn't necessarily implies that a child is sexualized.

In mass media there is a specific niche for "dream boyfriends" (just think in Justin Bieber before he got tatoos) designed to enchant pre-teen girls. I'm sure they are not prepared for a sexual relationship and their dreams probably don't go further than walking on the beach holding each others hands and watching the sunset. Maybe a caste kiss. Not that this is the case with Arya, but the point is that it is not so strange for pre-teens to "love" somebody, sometimes with surprising passion. Let's interpret "love" here not in a mature and sexual way, but platonic interest. Perhaps this has more to do with "playing adult" once they stop playing dolls, than with real hormones. Perhaps it's group pressure. But for them, at this point of their lives, it is sincere and true love. This is what love is. A lot of publicists and managers earn their money knowing this.

Btw, I would say this is not Arya's case AT ALL. And if I had a Belieber daughter I'd consider suicide as reasonable. I just wanted to say that it is not absurd to think that people this age could feel atracted in a non-sexual way towards somebody else.

 
The show, otoh... http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30600000/Arya-Gendry-arya-and-gendry-30692602-245-225.gif
 
You can pinpoint the moment in which she hits puberty by just seeing him.


LOL :D

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That isn't how I read that post. I believe s/he was saying that adding a sexual component isn't grey but child molestation. Which is correct. The response to that post (that I responded to )was...in poor taste.

 

The issue is that we're trying to simply decipher whether there's a crush/attraction/puppy love of one for the other, and whether it's unrequieted or not. But then that gets tabbood by some as Gendry/Arya shipping. The OP isn't asking - should Gendry/Arya be a couple, marry or whatever. The OP is about analyzing what's in the books. There's romantic subtext, from both sides at different moments.

 

But that particular post with regards to the OP appears to say that simply discussing what's there or not, and if people do see something is there in the text, is child molestation. GRRM wrote about a 10 year old and a 15 year old. At least 3 characters at Acorn Hall do not regard Gendry and Arya entering the hall after their smithy fight as "just friends". On the contrary. They all make some romantic connection between the two. So, then GRRM and Tom O'Sevens and Ravella Swan (aka Lady Smallwood) are child mollesters?

 

I can comprehend the response if this was an actual ship thread. But this isn't even a ship thread.

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During a recent reading, I've come to believe that Gendry has romantic feelings towards Arya, and here's why. 

 

Arya puts a lot of trust into Gendry. He is the first to know that she is actually Arya Stark of Winterfell. He's followed her through everything since they met until she is taken captive again, so they have a strong relationship. It must have been hard for him, which could explain his change in character when we see him again at the inn at the crossroads during Brienne's POV. 

 

At Acorn Hall Gendry compliments her appearance in a way:

 
Gendry put the hammer down and looked at her. “You look different now. Like a proper little girl.”
“I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns.”
“Nice, though. A nice oak tree.”
He stepped closer, and sniffed at her.
“You even smell nice for a change.”
 
 

They also wrestle each other at Acorn Hall, 

 

“You don’t. You stink.” Arya shoved him back against the anvil and made to run, but Gendry caught her arm. She stuck a foot between his legs and tripped him, but he yanked her down with him, and they rolled across the floor of the smithy. He was very strong, but she was quicker. Every time he tried to hold her still she wriggled free and punched him. Gendry only laughed at the blows, which made her mad. He finally caught both her wrists in one hand and started to tickle her with the other, so Arya slammed her knee between his legs, and wrenched free.
 
Playful wrestling and tickling. Hmm. Arya would never know that this could be in a flirtatious sort of way. And she doesn't seem to realize his feelings at the Stoney Sept either. 
 
At first he blushes very hard when complimented for the arms he's always noted for. Maybe because it's in front of Arya. 
 
She spied Gendry then, and pinched him on the cheek. “Look at this fine young ox. Wait till Alyce sees those arms. Oh, and he blushes like a maid, too. Well, Alyce will fix that for you, boy, see if she don’t.”
Arya had never seen Gendry turn so red.
 
and later..
 
“I’m named Bella,” the girl told Gendry.
“For the battle. I bet I could ring your bell, too. You want to?”
“No,” he said gruffly.
“I bet you do.” She ran a hand along his arm. “I don’t cost nothing to friends of Thoros and the lightning lord.”
“No, I said.” Gendry rose abruptly and stalked away from the table out into the night.
Bella turned to Arya. “Don’t he like girls?”
Arya shrugged. “He’s just stupid. He likes to polish helmets and beat on swords with hammers.”
 
This is actually the point where I seriously considered Gendry to have romantic feelings towards Arya. So at first, in front of Arya, he sternly refuses Bella's offer. He wants nothing from it. But then this scene occurs...
 
“She’s my sister.” Gendry put a heavy hand on the old man’s shoulder, and squeezed. “Leave her be.”
                                      ...........
“Why did you say that?” Arya hopped to her feet. “You’re not my brother.”
“That’s right,” he said angrily. “I’m too bloody lowborn to be kin to m’lady high.”
Arya was taken aback by the fury in his voice. “That’s not the way I meant it.”
“Yes it is.” He sat down on the bench, cradling a cup of wine between his hands. “Go away. I want to drink this wine in peace. Then maybe I’ll go find that black-haired girl and ring her bell for her.
“But …”
“I said, go away. M’lady.”
Arya whirled and left him there. A stupid bullheaded bastard boy, that’s all he is. He could ring all the bells he wanted, it was nothing to her.
 
I found it odd that he would add that maybe he'll go ring Bella's bell for her, almost like he's trying to make Arya jealous. It's textbook high school romance. The girl I like at the dance doesn't notice me, so I'll dance with another girl to make her jealous. But Arya obviously doesn't get it. She's too young. She dismisses him as stupid. As young girls usually do too boyish suitors. The bell he really wants to ring is Arya's if I were a betting man.
 
Well, that's just one of my many musings I have while readings this masterpiece of a fantasy epic. What do you guys think?
 
 
 

 

I think you're definitely right.  I've thought they were a cute couple.  I also thought it would be awesome for Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon's children to actually make a love match.  :)  Poor Gendry, I hope we see him again soon in WoW.

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Let's start with crushing.  Yes, Gendry is crushing on Arya.  Interested, but not on the same level as love.  That is for Jon Snow and Arya, not Gendry.  Yes, it could parallel Robert and Lyanna, but there are plenty of unrequited love in a place with rigid social structures and classes.

It doesn't parallell Robert and Lyanna.  Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert.  She told Eddard as much.  I think it is a love match.  Hell, I'd have a hard time not falling for Gendry myself!  Arya is young, but, she has seen a lot and been through a lot for all of her tender years.  She has had to grow up faster than she normally would.  While we don't get any private thoughts of her feelings towards Gendry, its quite obvious that the foundation for a future relationship is being laid and Gendry is restrained and frustrated because of his feelings.  He is in fact, a gentleman.  He is protective too.  Too damned cute!

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I think the Gendry/Arya crush is as much a given as the Hound/Sansa crush.  

GRRM doesn't exactly care about age gaps when alluding to relationships, sexual or otherwise.

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There are ten years old girl who have "boyfriends". The concept can exist without having a sexually context. They definitely don't think about sex, just more platonic stuff.

 

I'm not saying as ok, btw. In fact, I'm totally against the idea: it can sexualise kids. But, it doesn't necessarily implies that a child is sexualized.

Can't argue with this.  I had my first girlfriend at 8 y/o.  Second by 11 y/o.  I was having pseudo-sexual feelings towards women and women's bodies by the time I was 5. 

 

The thing I find somewhat weird is the idea of a 16 year old boy turning his sexual desire towards a pre-pubescent 10 year old. 

 

What's your point? There isn't a sexual attraction between Arya & Gendry. It's a mutual crush.

WTH is a crush?  How does it fit in with my glossary terms?  Why do girls always come up with new words for old ideas?  I never had a crush on a 10 year old when I was 16.  Does this happen with other 16 year old dudes?  Maybe we define crush differently, which is why this is confusing. 

 

 

 

You can pinpoint the moment in which she hits puberty by just seeing him.

LOL.  That's all it takes huh? 

 

Sweetsunray:

It is here that Gendry's own sexuality is awakening. That might seem a bit old, but overall his maturity seems belated in contrast to say Robb, which is actually not strange for a commoner boy, who doesn't have the coin and means to go to whores and isn't expected to think of marriage until his 20s when he has a living to support a wife and family. Gendry is a bit of a late-bloomer in that regard.

Yeah, I'm gonna say that is a bit odd.  Sorry but I don't buy it.  I don't think he was having a "sexual awakening" at 16.  He was having a "sexual moment".  IE, he was horny, wanted to bone.  It wasn't a surprise. 

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Hey, no one is saying that Gendry wants to have sex with Arya right now.

 

Yeah gripes like "how dare you ship Sansa with someone!  SHE IS 14 YEAR OLD GIRL!" and the same for Arya are so annoying.  Fictional characters age.  You marry people you meet in life.  Not weird to want to see either of those girls with someone in the future

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  I never had a crush on a 10 year old when I was 16.  

 

Then again you also didn't grow up in a medieval-esque fantasy world.  

 

As a highborn, a very perceptive one at that, Arya is way more mature at ten years old than other kids her age, as illustrated by her thinking about the girl at that village where she and the Hound stayed being utterly childish. I'd even argue Arya is more mature than Gendry is.

 

Age and maturity don't go hand in hand, and neither do maturity and sexuality. In our world as well as Planetos.

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The issue is that we're trying to simply decipher whether there's a crush/attraction/puppy love of one for the other, and whether it's unrequieted or not. But then that gets tabbood by some as Gendry/Arya shipping.
 
I can comprehend the response if this was an actual ship thread. But this isn't even a ship thread.

I agree. There is no reason to taboo the subject, but it doesn't do any good to take quotes out of context. This is the quote I responded to, which clearly goes in the other direction in its response to that objection:

I've got bad news about the real world, man...it doesn't conform to your moral hysterics.

There is nothing morally hysterical about the resistance of associating sexuality with a 10 year old.;)

If it's worthy to call out someone about shipping Arya/Gendry, then surely it's worthy to call out an implication that it's naive & morally hysterical to not. Correcting the misinterpretation of my post 4 times now is quite enough, don't you think?

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Then again you also didn't grow up in a medieval-esque fantasy world.  

 

 

This is true, but I am a guy, and I was a boy, so I think I know a little about sexual attraction, and I don't think it's changed that much since 1300.  The rules of what is acceptable has changed, but the core desires have not changed.  And frankly, I find it dubious that a 16 year old guy is going to have sexual desire for a 10 year old girl, unless she is VERY VERY mature for her age, as in she's hit puberty and developed a little. 

 

 

As a highborn, a very perceptive one at that, Arya is way more mature at ten years old than other kids her age, as illustrated by her thinking about the girl at that village where she and the Hound stayed being utterly childish. I'd even argue Arya is more mature than Gendry is.

 

Are you talking about mental maturity, or physical maturity?  Because I don't remember being that attracted to the mental maturity of females when I was 16.  My loss, but I don't think I'm necessarily alone in this.  Maybe we can get some other male opinions.  Maybe someone else is getting erections over the mental maturity of women at the age of 16. 

 

 

 

Age and maturity don't go hand in hand, and neither do maturity and sexuality. In our world as well as Planetos.

See above.  You talking about mental or physical?  Because there is a correlation between age and physical/sexual maturity.  At least there was the last time I checked. 

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WTH is a crush?  How does it fit in with my glossary terms?  Why do girls always come up with new words for old ideas?  I never had a crush on a 10 year old when I was 16.  Does this happen with other 16 year old dudes?  Maybe we define crush differently, which is why this is confusing.


C'mon guy, you didn't post the OP with your "glossary terms" and there is nothing new or ambiguous about the term "crush." He is 15yrs & she is 10yrs. They like each other.....

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C'mon guy, you didn't post the OP with your "glossary terms" and there is nothing new or ambiguous about the term "crush." He is 15yrs & she is 10yrs. They like each other.....

No, really.  I've never heard "crush" used in any serious discussion about love, attraction, or desire.  Where does it fall in with the big boy/girl terminology? 

 

If I had to guess, I would say that a crush was a pre-sexual, sexual attraction to another individual.  IE, When a 8 year old boy likes an 8 year old girl.  He may find her attractive and beautiful, but not in a sexually mature manner.  There is a sexual component, but it is not mature.  Maybe he wants to hold her, kiss her, touch her, but not have sex with her.  You could say the same about the desire that a 10 year old boy or girl might have for an older figure, like a teacher.  They may find the adult attractive, even in a sexual way, but not actually have sexual desires for them.  Hence, I don't think that individuals with matured sexual desires even have "crushes". 

 

But this is all my guess.  I'm not sure what you mean by "crush", which is why I asked. 

 

I would say that Gendry does have mature sexual desires, as evidenced by the fact that he wants to ring Bella's bells. 

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No, really.  I've never heard "crush" used in any serious discussion about love, attraction, or desire.  Where does it fall in with the big boy/girl terminology? 
 
If I had to guess, I would say that a crush was a pre-sexual, sexual attraction to another individual.  IE, When a 8 year old boy likes an 8 year old girl.  He may find her attractive and beautiful, but not in a sexually mature manner.  There is a sexual component, but it is not mature.  Maybe he wants to hold her, kiss her, touch her, but not have sex with her.  You could say the same about the desire that a 10 year old boy or girl might have for an older figure, like a teacher.  They may find the adult attractive, even in a sexual way, but not actually have sexual desires for them.  Hence, I don't think that individuals with matured sexual desires even have "crushes". 
 
But this is all my guess.  I'm not sure what you mean by "crush", which is why I asked. 
 
I would say that Gendry does have mature sexual desires, as evidenced by the fact that he wants to ring Bella's bells.

Your definition is appropriate except I think a sexually maturing person can have a crush. Since Gendry's attraction for Arya doesn't really have a sexual component to it, it's accurate to call it a crush.

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Your definition is appropriate except I think a sexually maturing person can have a crush. Since Gendry's attraction for Arya doesn't really have a sexual component to it, it's accurate to call it a crush.

What is the nature of Gendry's attraction then?  How does it manifest in his psyche?  Does he want to hold her?  Kiss her?  Touch her?  Stroke her hair?  See her naked? 

 

If Gendry does not have this attraction, then it would appear that his feelings are filial, or friendship based.  The love of friendship may be based on an attraction of spirit.  Is this what you mean? 

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She is way too young.

Maybe Stark children are really precocious, though. Sansa has been crushing on boys since ever. Bran is nine and has a crush on Meera, which is 19. Arya in Gendry? Still, it doesn't make it any less creepier… if any of my sons had said "dad, I am dating this girl five years older than me" I would call the police before anything.

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