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Ser Falione

Gendry is in love with Arya.

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What is the nature of Gendry's attraction then?  How does it manifest in his psyche?  Does he want to hold her?  Kiss her?  Touch her?  Stroke her hair?  See her naked? 
 
If Gendry does not have this attraction, then it would appear that his feelings are filial, or friendship based.  The love of friendship may be based on an attraction of spirit.  Is this what you mean?

I think Gendry has affection for Arya. I'm not sure he could even define it completely as his character seems immature for his age (compared to Robb/Jon). It isn't a sexual but has a romantic component to it.

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She is way too young.
Maybe Stark children are really precocious, though. Sansa has been crushing on boys since ever. Bran is nine and has a crush on Meera, which is 19. Arya in Gendry? Still, it doesn't make it any less creepier if any of my sons had said "dad, I am dating this girl five years older than me" I would call the police before anything.

Yes, I'd do the same for my sons, and request heavy parental or police intervention if I had a 10yr old daughter who was "dating" a 15yr old.;)

Edit: but you'll have posters arguing that things are different in Westeros.:rolleyes: which they aren't really in terms of child development.

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She is way too young.

Maybe Stark children are really precocious, though. Sansa has been crushing on boys since ever. Bran is nine and has a crush on Meera, which is 19. Arya in Gendry? Still, it doesn't make it any less creepier… if any of my sons had said "dad, I am dating this girl five years older than me" I would call the police before anything.

I don't see the "precocious" point. Children do have crushes at early ages. There's nothing sexual about it. And Meera is not 19, she is younger, not more than 17, as far as I remember.

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I think Gendry has affection for Arya.

Allright.  Affection is quite different from attraction.  One denotes desire to possess, another denotes a desire for "good" for another.  This circles us back around to the idea that Gendry loves Arya as a sister.  One has affection for a sister, or a friend, but not attraction.  So we seem to agree, but we are using different words to denote the same ideas.  This is why coming to terms is so critical for good communication, hence good discussion or good debate. 

 

But I don't see that having affection for someone means that you have a crush on them.  You don't have a crush on your little sister.  You don't have a crush on your friend (unless you're friend-zoned, in which your feelings are not really friendly, but attraction unconsummated and denied).  So I'm more positive that "crush" is not an applicable term, even under your definitions. 

 

 

It isn't a sexual but has a romantic component to it.

Once again, I'm not sure if we have the same idea of what romance denotes.  For me, romance denotes a particular type of desire that idealizes the object. 

 

For instance:

"She has a fine ass"

vs

"She has the most perfect ass in the universe.  I would eat dinner off it.  I would worship it.  You could bounce a quarter off it and it will hit the ceiling"

 

or, if you prefer a non-sexual example

 

"She has a great sense of humor"

vs

"She is the funniest girl in the history of the world" 

 

For example, I would definitely say that Sansa had "romantic" feelings towards Joffrey, prior to him cutting her father's head off.  I would say that Sansa has romantic feelings about many things, more than just boys and men.  Robert had romantic feelings towards Lyanna.  Perhaps Lyanna had romantic feelings towards Rhaegar.  Quentyn seemed to have romantic feelings toward Dany.  Romance can be applied to all kinds of subjects.  You can be romantic about a car, or a flower, or a movie.  Even a book or author. 

 

Because of this, I have a hard time seeing the "romance" involved between Gendry and Arya.  I don't believe there is any idealization there.  But I don't understand how you define "romance". 

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Allright.  Affection is quite different from attraction.  One denotes desire to possess, another denotes a desire for "good" for another.  This circles us back around to the idea that Gendry loves Arya as a sister.  One has affection for a sister, or a friend, but not attraction.  So we seem to agree, but we are using different words to denote the same ideas.  This is why coming to terms is so critical for good communication, hence good discussion or good debate. 
 
But I don't see that having affection for someone means that you have a crush on them.  You don't have a crush on your little sister.  You don't have a crush on your friend (unless you're friend-zoned, in which your feelings are not really friendly, but attraction unconsummated and denied).  So I'm more positive that "crush" is not an applicable term, even under your definitions. 
 
 

Once again, I'm not sure if we have the same idea of what romance denotes.  For me, romance denotes a particular type of desire that idealizes the object. 
 
For instance:
"She has a fine ass"
vs
"She has the most perfect ass in the universe.  I would eat dinner off it.  I would worship it.  You could bounce a quarter off it and it will hit the ceiling"
 
or, if you prefer a non-sexual example
 
"She has a great sense of humor"
vs
"She is the funniest girl in the history of the world" 
 
For example, I would definitely say that Sansa had "romantic" feelings towards Joffrey, prior to him cutting her father's head off.  I would say that Sansa has romantic feelings about many things, more than just boys and men.  Robert had romantic feelings towards Lyanna.  Perhaps Lyanna had romantic feelings towards Rhaegar.  Quentyn seemed to have romantic feelings toward Dany.  Romance can be applied to all kinds of subjects.  You can be romantic about a car, or a flower, or a movie.  Even a book or author. 
 
Because of this, I have a hard time seeing the "romance" involved between Gendry and Arya.  I don't believe there is any idealization there.  But I don't understand how you define "romance".


IMO Gendry has romantic feelings towards Arya, but just because we can't read what he thinks doesn't diminish the fact that they can be noticed in his actions or attitudes.

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IMO Gendry has romantic feelings towards Arya, but just because we can't read what he thinks doesn't diminish the fact that they can be noticed in his actions or attitudes.

How do YOU define romantic feelings? 

 

What actions/attitudes are you referring to? 

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Allright.  Affection is quite different from attraction.  One denotes desire to possess, another denotes a desire for "good" for another.  This circles us back around to the idea that Gendry loves Arya as a sister.  One has affection for a sister, or a friend, but not attraction.  So we seem to agree, but we are using different words to denote the same ideas.  This is why coming to terms is so critical for good communication, hence good discussion or good debate. 
 
But I don't see that having affection for someone means that you have a crush on them.  You don't have a crush on your little sister.  You don't have a crush on your friend (unless you're friend-zoned, in which your feelings are not really friendly, but attraction unconsummated and denied).  So I'm more positive that "crush" is not an applicable term, even under your definitions. 
 
 Once again, I'm not sure if we have the same idea of what romance denotes.  For me, romance denotes a particular type of desire that idealizes the object. 
 
Because of this, I have a hard time seeing the "romance" involved between Gendry and Arya.  I don't believe there is any idealization there.  But I don't understand how you define "romance".

Okkaaay...affection and attraction are not mutually exclusive here. Gendry can be described as having affection for Arya without thinking of her as a sister, hence he is attracted to her. This would be a crush.;)

Romance and idealization are not mutually inclusive. Romance (for me) simply means a feeling of love for. I don't necessarily think Gendry "loves" Arya but he does have feelings of care, affection, fondness, liking, admiration, warmth, endearment, ect. ect. ect.

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Okkaaay...affection and attraction are not mutually exclusive here. Gendry can be described as having affection for Arya without thinking of her as a sister, hence he is attracted to her. This would be a crush. ;)
 

I agree that they are, as a rule, not mutally exclusive.  In fact, as I defined first, in my opinion, true love is an amalgam of the two. 

 

What form of attraction does Gendry have for Arya?  What is he attracted to?  Her mouth?  Her hair?  Her breasts?  Her feet?  Her eyes?  I'm positive that an indidividual can have affection for someone without thinking of them as a sister.  It's called friendship.  But the other difference is that your sister is generally considered to be sexually off limits due to social constraints.  In the case of friendship, the sexual attraction does not exist, or is an unnecessary corollary of friendship.  But you don't "crush" on your friend, because you don't have sexual or pseudo sexual feelings for him or her.  Otherwise, your feelings go "beyond friendship". 

 

Let me give a great example of a crush in the books.  Bran has a "crush" on Meera.  He "loves" her.  He wants to hold her, comfort her, touch her.  But he does not have mature sexual desire for her, despite the fact that he has a pre-sexual physical desire for her.  It is, by it's very nature, an immature form of love and desire.  Hence the reason why children have "crushes", but mature adults seldom do. 

 

I consistently deny that Gendry seems to have any form of sexual, or pseudo-sexual desire for Arya.  He may love her, but as a friend, or as a sister.  I tend to believe that he does not have sexual, or pseudo-sexual feelings for her, because of the fact that she is sexually immature.  Being in the process of sexual maturation, Gendry naturally turns his sexual desires to women who are sexually maturing or are mature. 

 

This is all from a male point of view.  Maybe things are different for girls.  Maybe a 16 year old girl can "crush" on a 10 year old boy.  That seems to make some sort of weird sense.  But I think that my point of view may have greater weight since Gendry is a boy. 

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How do YOU define romantic feelings? 
 
What actions/attitudes are you referring to?

When he sniffs at her hair and tells her she looks pretty?

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When he sniffs at her hair and tells her she looks pretty?

"You look different now. Like a proper little girl."

"I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns."

"Nice, though. A nice oak tree." He stepped closer, and sniffed at her. "You even smell nice for a change."

"You don’t. You stink." Arya shoved him back against the anvil and made to run, but Gendry caught her arm. She stuck a foot between his legs and tripped him, but he yanked her down with him, and they rolled across the floor of the smithy. He was very strong, but she was quicker. Every time he tried to hold her still she wriggled free and punched him. Gendry only laughed at the blows, which made her mad. He finally caught both her wrists in one hand and started to tickle her with the other, so Arya slammed her knee between his legs, and wrenched free. Both of them were covered in dirt, and one sleeve was tom. on her stupid acorn dress. "I bet I don’t look so nice now," she shouted.

 

I'm afraid you're reading things in this passage that I don't see.  If anybody seems to be "crushing" or having pseudo-sexual desire, I would say it's Arya.  And here is where we can begin the debate about reading in-between the lines. 

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People who consider he only has filial feelings for Arya are missing his "ring the black haired girls' bells" remark.

 

They've been friends for a long while, but at HH they are odds for a great part. This is mostly because Tyrion's observations about what slavery does to people applies to Gendry at HH. He doesn't have a Jaqen to empower him. He very well knows what a monster Ser Amory is, but he resents the power switch anyhow because Ser Amory was a bannerman to Tywin... rubbish of course.

 

But once they escape, he soon allies with Arya, and they become one mind for a while, backing each other through thick and thin. There's the moment they both tell "No" to Hot Pie, and Arya notes it, comparing it to how Jon and her would do that. They do stuff together, like walking the weirwood circle of High Heart. They're friends at that point.

 

Then follows Acorn Hall, and it's the first time she's washed and he ever sees her with a dress on. At a first glance he laughs so hard over it, the wine comes out of his nose. So, he's not yet seeing her in a new light, yet. As a friend he invites her to the smithy. The smithy conversation is two-fold. Inititally it's about Thoros. Arya here thinks he's mostly talking shop, as he picks up smithy tools. But watchful reading reveals that he's not so much interested in talking about how Thoros abused steel, but what a great warrior he was at Pyke. When you realize he's not talking shop but talking about a famed fighter, what he does with the tools in the smithy becomes very suspect. He lays down each of them. He mentions his first sword he was to make before he was sent off with Yoren. Arya still thinks it's related to "smithing", but we know that he made a warrior's helmet all for himself and refused to part with it even for the Hand. He made that helm of his own design, and he says he already knew in his head how he was going to shape the sword. That sword was not meant for sale, but to be his to accompany his helmet. Gendry dreamed of being a warrior. But the capture by the Mountain, both Arya and him take as his personal failure. It's also where his helmet got taken away. This is one of the reasons he gives up on his dream in HH and settles for "smithing for Lucan" and "it's all the same, whichever master you have". This is almost completely analogues to Jorah's behaviour after being taken as a slave. Giving up.

 

So, he mentions the sword he was going to make for himself, and Arya - completely oblivious - says he can make swords for her brother at RR. In response he "lays the hammer down", repeats "Riverrun" and then completely changes the subject.

 

This tells us why Gendry wanted to check out the smithy - to test whether being an armorer smith for a lord at a castle forge is what he really wants to do. They've been around the BwB for a while now and they come close to the knight's ideals. Laying the hammer down instead of hanging it back where it belonged is a sure sign that "Riverrun" is not an option for him anymore.

 

So, he changes the subject, in fact her appearance. And that's when his eyes are opened. The words he uses though are suspect. He does not use the word "lady" and he does not call her "pretty". Instead he uses "girl" and "nice". By not identifying her as a lady, he keeps the fact of their status difference hidden and unacknowledged. And "nice" is the word you use to somebody when you try to appeal to their kindness. It's the equivalent where you have to pass a guarding dog and say "nice doggy" in the hope they won't lash out at you. In those few lines, Gendry shows an attempt to pacify Arya towards him, not to reject his actions and words. And the sniffing even gives it a sexual undertone - I just only need to refer to the bear-and-maiden song where the bear smells the honey of her hair.

 

But Arya does reject him at that point. Not because she's not attracted to him, but because she attempts to reject someone before he can reject her. She doesn't believe she's attractive, quite the opposite. She also believes that handsome boys will be paired with Sansa, and she with the "fat" ones. Arya is at an asexual age, but asexuality does not mean you can't be attracted physically and emotionally to someone. And she's attracted to Gendry before he's ever attracted to her. Since adults have sexual feelings they mistake physical attraction with sexually desiring someone. For adults one leads to the other, and thus are connected. Not so in children. They can be physically attracted without experiencing sexual desire. Arya uses a clever subterfuge from the start with regards to Gendry being handsome to her. She never uses the word "handsome" in her pov about him, but always "strong". But if you pay attention to her focus on him, it's easy to figure out that she finds him attractive.

 

When you find someone attractive, your focus and all your senses are on alert, including as a child. We know less than a third about Hot Pie than we know of Gendry through Arya. Before their capture she already knows at least 6 different facial expressions of Gendry - thinking, stubborn, angry, sullen, intent on playing the hero, ... Her focus is on him from her second chapter in aCoK. When he lures her away from the cage with Jaqen, Rorge and Biter, she feels like kicking something, in need of a fight, and she challenges him. Eventually he takes the challenge. Just as they stand in readiness to spar, she notes his "wet hair" (on account of having taken a bath) and "deep blue eyes". The word "deep" is glaringly connotated to attraction. It's not ever something you'll think about someone you are not attracted to. In fact it implies you're drawn to the person. But then the Gold Cloaks arrive, and she pulls him in hiding with her in the shrubbery. Her mind is on alert on the Gold Cloaks. She wants to hear what they're after. Gendry is confused and asks her why they're hiding, and she orders him to be quiet. So, all her intentional focus is on the Gold Cloaks, her safety and she doesn't want him distracting her. And yet, at the same moment she tells him to be quiet, she notices his ear smells of soap. That right there is a glaring sign of attraction. Even at the risk of her life, her senses and her mind take the time and room to consciously register he's smelling of soap. So, now we have a Gold Cloak scene where she smells him, and an Acorn Hall scene where he smells her.

 

Not convinced, because she thinks of him as "strong" instead of "handsome". She calls Jaqen "handsome" after all. Yeah, but Jaqen is much older and a "criminal", so she already rules him out subconsciously as a potential romantic interest. Calling him "handsome" is safe to her self-image. She wouldn't feel hurt if Jaqen would not be interested her on account of her "not being pretty", because she's too young anyway. But her smell is also very much on alert around him at HH, not to mention she visits him while he's taken a bath.

 

So, we have 3 scenes where one character took a bath, where the other "smells" the nice perfume, and attraction. So, yes, as a motif it implies that during the smithy scene Gendry suddenly realizes he's attracted to Arya (who has been forced to take a bath, and put in a dress). So, why does Arya reject it? Because she doesn't believe a handsome boy could be attracted to her at all. So, she challenges him with the spoiled dress statement after their rumble. And while we don't really get to witness Gendry's response to her after she's forced into a bath again that same evening, and this time in even a prettier dress (purple and baby pearls), undoubtedly it would have magnified his impression of her being pretty.

 

At this point though, I consider his attraction still as asexual as that of Arya's; But everything changes at the Peach. He's 15 (Arya's 10), on the brink of manhood. And he's touched seductively by a woman upon arrival. I think he blushes so deeply here not because of Arya standing next to him, but because he's experiencing his first sexual feelings. The woman says he blushes like a maid. It is here that Gendry's own sexuality is awakening. That might seem a bit old, but overall his maturity seems belated in contrast to say Robb, which is actually not strange for a commoner boy, who doesn't have the coin and means to go to whores and isn't expected to think of marriage until his 20s when he has a living to support a wife and family. Gendry is a bit of a late-bloomer in that regard. 

 

But once sexuality awakens it's hard to separate the concepts of physical attraction of sexual desire. Gendry knows very well how young Arya still is (Lem clouted him on the head over it after the smithy-fight), and he wants to protect her, not just physically but in other ways to. Since, she's young he wants to shelter her from sexual realizations. So when she suddenly tells him that she thinks they're in a brothel (and he's certainly aware of it), he attempts to deny the truth of it. It's like the situation where a child points at two dogs going at it and making a remark on it, while the parent lies and comes up with some silly, innocent explanation about what the dogs are doing. So, that's why Gendry says, "What is a highborn lady like you doing here if this is a brothel."

 

More, he also wants to protect her from his own awaking sexuality. He wants to remind himself she's a child, and not a sexual object. Probably since his sudden physical responses to women make him fear that he might have a similar, but completely inappropriate physical response to Arya whom he now finds attractive - especially when she's sitting next to him in all that femine lace and smelling nice again (from her earlier bath). But if she's talking openly about brothels and whores, it's hard to do that. To make matters worse, Bella comes along. Asexual Arya isn't much bothered by it, but it puts Gendry in the most awkward situation on several levels. So, he departs and stays out for quite a long time. To cool off most likely and find a new subterfuge in order to avoid surprising and inappropriate desire for a child. When she's dressed as a boy, it's not so difficult, but in all the lace inside a brothel it becomes harder. So, he tells himself he'll think of her as a sister. You can't have sexual thoughts about a sister. By then Arya has seen a lot of groping, kissing and going upstairs. What a brothel implicates has become less abstract to her. At that moment the older drunk approaches her calling her a Peach. She's taken completely by surprise, a bit drunk, and thus not equipped to deal with the situation assertively. Gendry is right on time to shoo the man off, claiming "She's his sister."

 

That he doesn't just say it for the man becomes clear when Arya tells him, "But you're not my brother." This angers and frustrates him a great deal. Why? What's so insulting and frustrating about her stating a mere fact? Because it completely destroys his subterfuge to avoid thinking of her as a sexual object. And yet, why does Arya find it important to point out he is not her brother. She's not dumb. Yoren had her pretend to be a boy to avoid rape. She feared Rorge. Gendry lying to some stranger who's making a pass on her that she's his sister wouldn't be hard to understand for her at all. But being a little drunk she's also more inclined to give in to revealing and making clear what Gendry is not to her - not her brother.

 

The statement about ringing Bella's bells glaringly reveals that indeed he has more than a friend's or filial feelings. He does want to make her jealous and angry enough to stay away from the common room and him. But now that she has seen what "ringing bells" implies, she's not as apathic about Gendry with Bella anymore as she was initially when Bella first talked to him. And when one has to state to themselves they don't care about something, it means the opposite. Arya does not want Bella ringing Gendry's bells.

 

So, we have Arya being asexual but physically attracted to Gendry way longer before Gendry ever realizes she's attractive, and she does not want him to think of her as his sister, nor thinks of him as a brother. Gendry finds himself attracted to Arya right about the time he's growing to know sexual desire, and he desperately wants to avoid having inappropriate physical responses around and about her, all through subterfuge of reminding himself - still a child, a highborn lady I can never have, let's think of her as a sister.  

 

And yes, Gendry is jealous of Edric. After him joining the BwB, she - in her hurt- acted all highborn to him, doesn't allow him to apologize or explain himself; she walks High Heart's circle with Edric instead of him, and she rides with the boy. She makes a mental note of it, how disparaging Gendry is towards Edric and that Gendry doesn't like Edric at all. Gendry's forced to trail them as third wheel of the wagon, frustratedly trying to get her attention, and on top of it all, Edric's status-wise a much more probable match than he can ever be.

 

Then when we see him again, he lives at the inn where she was last seen by witnesses (thought of as a boy accompanying Sandor), where Sandor and she killed Polliver and the Tickler. The bloodstains of that fight are still there, impossible to be washed out. He's around a girl that's bossy, of her age, and aside from the color of her eyes could be Arya in Brienne's mind. And it's basically serving as an orphanage, where either children end up by themselves or are brought by the Sparrows. It seems like Gendry hopes that perhaps one day Arya might wander in or be discovered by the Sparrows and be brought there. And that's not even a dumb idea, not from Gendry's POV or the BwB's. He knows her the longest, and would be the first to recognize her, no matter how raggedy, filthy and boyish she looks - as long as she has her own face. Nobody would believe she had the coin to cross the Narrow Sea to Braavos. So, if she survived, in their minds, she must still be in the Riverlands.

Bless you for this.  :bowdown:  

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How do YOU define romantic feelings? 

 

What actions/attitudes are you referring to? 

 

 

Similar to your description. When there's a feeling of love towards that person in particular, it can only be a crush, but there's always a feeling of unique admiration in any aspect of him/her: personality, looks....and thus, you begin to care more about that person and possibly want to be closer to him/her, feel more protective, you may be jealous, etc.  You may also idealise that person more than other people would do (but that doesn't mean you will acknowledge this).

 

 

Okkaaay...affection and attraction are not mutually exclusive here. Gendry can be described as having affection for Arya without thinking of her as a sister, hence he is attracted to her. This would be a crush. ;)
 

 

That was my idea of "romantic" too....

 

I am referring to the whole dynamics that occur to them between ASOS. I think that Gendry gradually falls in love with her (it may be just a crush, not the love of his life). The way he compliments on her at the smithy, which had not happened before that, the brothel, and his apparently jealousy when she is sharing time with Ned Dayne. It can be read beyond the lines.

 

Post#24 explains it very well.

 

 

I think that Gendry is falling in love with a non-typical lady who has had the opportunity to share a lot of time with, and befriend with: she has shown a lot of survival skills and initiative and it has had an impact on him: he has discovered that girl is unique in her own way. When he sees her wearing lady’s clothes he finally associates all the qualities he likes in his friend (if he hadn’t liked her they wouldn’t be together at that point of the story) with the romantic aspect.

 

Problem? We can't know for certain what Gendry is thinking, so you have to read beyond the lines. IMHO he is in love with her.

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This thread is utterly fascinating. The lengths people will go to deny that a 10 and 16 year old could be attracted to each other. Is it that you're morally repulsed by the idea, and so are wishing it out of existence, or genuinely believe it can't, or doesn't, happen? Both options seem insane.

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I'm positive that an indidividual can have affection for someone without thinking of them as a sister.  It's called friendship.But you don't "crush" on your friend, because you don't have sexual or pseudo sexual feelings for him or her.  Otherwise, your feelings go "beyond friendship".

A boy who has an attraction to a girl can also have affection for her WITHOUT thinking of her as a sister or just a friend. It's called a CRUSH.;)
 

I consistently deny that Gendry seems to have any form of sexual, or pseudo-sexual desire for Arya.  He may love her, but as a friend, or as a sister.  I tend to believe that he does not have sexual, or pseudo-sexual feelings for her, because of the fact that she is sexually immature.  Being in the process of sexual maturation, Gendry naturally turns his sexual desires to women who are sexually maturing or are mature.

I agree he doesn't have sexual feelings for Arya.
 

This is all from a male point of view.  Maybe things are different for girls.  Maybe a 16 year old girl can "crush" on a 10 year old boy.  That seems to make some sort of weird sense.  But I think that my point of view may have greater weight since Gendry is a boy.

Gendry is 15years based on Arya's 5th chapter in ACOK where it is said he is 5 years older than her 10yrs.
Why does you point of view have greater weight than mine or anyone else's?

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Oh boy, I'm so confused. I don't even know what I feel for my own wife after reading this thread.

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This thread is utterly fascinating. The lengths people will go to deny that a 10 and 16 year old could be attracted to each other. Is it that you're morally repulsed by the idea, and so are wishing it out of existence, or genuinely believe it can't, or doesn't, happen? Both options seem insane.

Note that I'm not denying that a 10 year old could be attracted to a 16 year old.  I'm dubious that a 16 year old boy would be attracted, sexually, or pseudo-sexually, to a 10 year old girl.  I WAS a 16 year old boy, and I knew lots of 16 year old boys, and attraction, sexual or pseudo-sexual, was reserved for sexually mature, or maturing women.  That and the fact that I have not found any part of the text that seems to denote that Gendry had sexual or pseudo-sexual feelings for Arya. 

 

It's true that I'm somewhat repulsed by the idea of a 16 year old boy being sexually attracted to a 10 year old girl.  But I don't believe that means it does not exist, or that it does not happen. I do however, believe that it is generally rare for a 16 year old boy to be sexually attracted to a 10 year old girl.  It's called pedophilia, and I don't think that it has ever been widespread. 

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<snip>Problem? We can't know for certain what Gendry is thinking, so you have to read beyond the lines. IMHO he is in love with her.[/size][/font]

  
:agree: with whole post except I wouldn't go so far as to claim Gendry is in love with Arya. But...we don't have Gendry's POV so...

This thread is utterly fascinating. The lengths people will go to deny that a 10 and 16 year old could be attracted to each other. Is it that you're morally repulsed by the idea, and so are wishing it out of existence, or genuinely believe it can't, or doesn't, happen? Both options seem insane.

Maybe a little of both but since GRRM didn't go there with the characters, we don't have to either. Insanity doesn't apply here, but perversion might if one insists upon viewing a 10yr old from a sexual perspective.;)

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Oh boy, I'm so confused. I don't even know what I feel for my own wife after reading this thread.


:lol: Yaeh, I'm not sure we need to split too many hairs over it.

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Oh boy, I'm so confused. I don't even know what I feel for my own wife after reading this thread.

Not knowing what to call it, or what other people would call it, doesn't deny it's existence. 

 

I don't think that Lady Sharya, Meera of Tarth, and I disagree greatly over the actual feelings, only the way we describe them, how we classify them, etc.  Beyond this is a disagreement in interpretation of unclear text.  Because it is unclear, our answers are intuitive rather than deductive or inductive. 

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"You look different now. Like a proper little girl."

"I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns."

"Nice, though. A nice oak tree." He stepped closer, and sniffed at her. "You even smell nice for a change."

"You don’t. You stink." Arya shoved him back against the anvil and made to run, but Gendry caught her arm. She stuck a foot between his legs and tripped him, but he yanked her down with him, and they rolled across the floor of the smithy. He was very strong, but she was quicker. Every time he tried to hold her still she wriggled free and punched him. Gendry only laughed at the blows, which made her mad. He finally caught both her wrists in one hand and started to tickle her with the other, so Arya slammed her knee between his legs, and wrenched free. Both of them were covered in dirt, and one sleeve was tom. on her stupid acorn dress. "I bet I don’t look so nice now," she shouted.

 

I'm afraid you're reading things in this passage that I don't see.  If anybody seems to be "crushing" or having pseudo-sexual desire, I would say it's Arya.  And here is where we can begin the debate about reading in-between the lines. 

 

Change "Gendry" to "Jon" (Snow) in the above and everybody would see it as brother-sister affection and teasing and horseplay and never think it had a sexual component at all.

 

 

Gendry, by the way, would only be a pedophile if any desire he felt for her could be made to instantly vanish by suddenly making her 5 or 10 years older.

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