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Ser Falione

Gendry is in love with Arya.

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;)
No...Robert conceived Gendry wherever he stayed in the Riverlands before the Trident, and the mother eventually made her way to KL. :)

Edit: I just have to find the family with the yellow hair....

 

So he's half-Lannister?

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I've got bad news about the real world, man...it doesn't conform to your moral hysterics.

I only know one kind of person who refers to people being disgusted at the thought of romance between 10 year olds and 16 year olds as "moral hysterics".  

 

Edited to add:  It's not the age differences.  5 or 6 years is nothing at some points in life.  My second "serious" girlfriend was 5 years younger than me…but she was 18 and I was 23.  

If Arya was described as being precociously developed for her age and beautiful, and Gendry was not aware she was only 10 or so, an attraction could be understandable, but the book makes it very clear that Arya is not developed sexually in the Mercy chapter.  She's 8 or 9 at the beginning of the book - 10 when she's spending time with Gendry - and 11 at the most in the Mercy chapter when she mentions that she is a couple of years away from developing secondary sexual characteristics.  Arya shipping is sick.

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I only know one kind of person who refers to people being disgusted at the thought of romance between 10 year olds and 16 year olds as "moral hysterics".  

 

Edited to add:  It's not the age differences.  5 or 6 years is nothing at some points in life.  My second "serious" girlfriend was 5 years younger than me…but she was 18 and I was 23.  

If Arya was described as being precociously developed for her age and beautiful, and Gendry was not aware she was only 10 or so, an attraction could be understandable, but the book makes it very clear that Arya is not developed sexually in the Mercy chapter.  She's 8 or 9 at the beginning of the book - 10 when she's spending time with Gendry - and 11 at the most in the Mercy chapter when she mentions that she is a couple of years away from developing secondary sexual characteristics.  Arya shipping is sick.

 

The thing with shipping (which I don't endorse, at least in the conventional way) is that it's not only about sexual attraction, but sometimes, about chemistry.

 

Are there some people who fantasises about them, being 10 and 15, together in a sexual way? Yes. I'm sure there are a few sick people around, just like, IICR, there were few that shipped Ron Wesley and the Giant Squid and wrote fanfiction about that.

 

I would like them together, I won't lie. I am sure Gendry loves Arya now, and he might even think, at some point, "I wish I could marry her someday". That doesn't mean, despite marriage implies it, that he's wishing and hoping having sex with her at this time; just like a couple of 10 years old who call each other girlfriend and boyfriend don't have sex in their minds when they hold hands.

 

Gendry is older, and he's in an age in which he definitely has sexual thoughts and urges. That doesn't mean he acts on them. He was offered free sex in a brothel and he said "no" because he felt awkward. If he's conscious of his own sexuality, at least he's also responsible for his own actions and decisions. The fact that he acts like he's sexually frustrated indicates, imo, that he doesnt' want to have those feelings for Arya. Besides, I think he's rather worried about her returning safe and not about getting into her pants.

 


[skip]


Well, he has set up Gendry to be a Bull from start, even if he isn't called that any more.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair is some sort of ASOIAF version of Beauty and the Beast, a story Martin has been declared to be a fan of (he wrote episodes for the show as well). The story of the BdtB is, for some who have analysed it, a tale meant to be told to girls who will face a marriage with a man they don't know so they can learn that, with given time, they both can learn to love each other.

At the same time, the fact the "male" is the beast bears (heh) a significance of portray sexuality, or how a young maid would perceive his future husband: someone who wants only physical intercourse from her, being physical intercourse something they don't know and likely fear.

This is something we do see in Sansa's arc, as she's sexually developing into womanhood, with all the desires that implies. The fact she has stopped dreaming with perfect knights and things about the Hound often is a way for Martin to tell us she's accepting raw natural sexuality and the physical act of sex as something that is not the subject of songs and pretty words, but an act that can be messy and dirty and yet, enjoyable. Also, The Hound's way of speaking Sansa about "true knights" is telling her how a "real man" is.

We also see the same with Jaime. Jaime is finding Brienne sexually appealing despite she's not exactly a pretty sight.

The song of the Bear and the Maiden Fair in Westeros is an allegory for sex between a nubile girl and a rough man, again, what looks like a tale to scare or warn girls about what to sexually expect of husbands. At first, the Maiden Fair is reluctant but then, she's enjoying it.

So, with that established, bears are a symbolism for someone that is not precisely attractive in a conventional way but one might grow to love, or someone who is a very sexual type of person.

That's not Gendry's case. Gendry is very attractive but he definitely does not represent an 'in-your-face' sexuality as many other characters. His own sexuality is not aggressive as is, for example, Jorah's. Jorah forcibly kissed Dany. Arya is very safe with Gendry around because he won't show her his "alleged" feelings. The Bear in the Maiden Fair song wants the Maiden Fair to wake up sexually.

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I love the jealousy angle with Bella, because Arya turns around and does the exact same thing with Dayne only with much more success. She even notices after that Gendry doesn't like Ned...

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Well, he has set up Gendry to be a Bull from start, even if he isn't called that any more.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair is some sort of ASOIAF version of Beauty and the Beast, a story Martin has been declared to be a fan of (he wrote episodes for the show as well). The story of the BdtB is, for some who have analysed it, a tale meant to be told to girls who will face a marriage with a man they don't know so they can learn that, with given time, they both can learn to love each other.

At the same time, the fact the "male" is the beast bears (heh) a significance of portray sexuality, or how a young maid would perceive his future husband: someone who wants only physical intercourse from her, being physical intercourse something they don't know and likely fear.

This is something we do see in Sansa's arc, as she's sexually developing into womanhood, with all the desires that implies. The fact she has stopped dreaming with perfect knights and things about the Hound often is a way for Martin to tell us she's accepting raw natural sexuality and the physical act of sex as something that is not the subject of songs and pretty words, but an act that can be messy and dirty and yet, enjoyable. Also, The Hound's way of speaking Sansa about "true knights" is telling her how a "real man" is.

We also see the same with Jaime. Jaime is finding Brienne sexually appealing despite she's not exactly a pretty sight.

The song of the Bear and the Maiden Fair in Westeros is an allegory for sex between a nubile girl and a rough man, again, what looks like a tale to scare or warn girls about what to sexually expect of husbands. At first, the Maiden Fair is reluctant but then, she's enjoying it.

So, with that established, bears are a symbolism for someone that is not precisely attractive in a conventional way but one might grow to love, or someone who is a very sexual type of person.

That's not Gendry's case. Gendry is very attractive but he definitely does not represent an 'in-your-face' sexuality as many other characters. His own sexuality is not aggressive as is, for example, Jorah's. Jorah forcibly kissed Dany. Arya is very safe with Gendry around because he won't show her his "alleged" feelings. The Bear in the Maiden Fair song wants the Maiden Fair to wake up sexually.

 

 

I agree that part of the song is about awakening sexuality - the part of the song between the bear and the maiden. The first half though is written like a bear-hunt codex. Catching a bear per proper ritual ensures yearlong good hunting of game, with 3 hunters (one of them being a shaman), waking the bear, luring him out, invitation to the feast at the village (a bear-eating feast), killing the bear, and returning with the killed bear in a festive procession, while pretending to be completely innocent of killing the bear, pretending he's still alive carried as a groom to his wedding to a maiden, and scapegoating others for the bear-kill in case the dead bear-spirit realizes what has happened to him.

 

  • Shaman hunter chooses which bear to hunt, wakes him up and lures him out = stanza 1 of the song
  • Bear is invited to the village = stanza 2 of the song
  • Bear kill = hidden stanza
  • 3 hunters take the bear in procession to the village = stanza 3 of the song, with the 3 boys = 3 hunters pretending to be innocent + goat = scapegoat
  • Bear introdued to the maiden he's to wed = stanza 4
  • Bear wedding = the rest, involving stealing and awakening sexuality of the maiden

When Arya & co meet Tom & co the chapter follows the same exact steps.

 

STANZA 1

  • Gendry = sleeping, Arya hears Tom (shaman) singing, urges Hot Pie to wake Gendry and hide behind the wall
  • What's hiding behind the wall: "A bear." and then "A wolf or a lion?"
  • They're all made to come out and exchange identities

STANZA 2

  • They're invited to come to the Inn of the Kneeling Man, and Tom & Co pretend to be completely innocent
  • Like the bear in stanza 2 Arya and Gendry are reluctant

HIDDEN STANZA - aka the kill

  • Anguy shoots arrows, missing by a hair. This serves the symbolical kill.
  • Arya & co accept the invitation

STANZA 3

  • A procession of the hunters and who they caught
  • Hot Pie lustily singing the bear song with Tom
  • Identification of the 3 hunters - Tom flushes out ducks with his singing (shaman), Anguy shoots a duck (the hunter with the slaying job), Lem fetches the duck

On top of that, the duck hunt shows how that as soon as they catch their "bear", they have immediate hunting luck of other game.

 

In the Acorn Hall scene we have the bear seeing and smelling the maiden and approving, and a struggle: Stanza 4 and the rest, except for the final 2 sexal stanzas.

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Something that needs to be brought up again doesn't even need any deep analysis: Gendry is a bastard, and has suffered the stigma of bastardy all his life. Just as Jon wouldn't want to father a bastard child and subject him/her to everything he's gone through, I'm sure that Gendry feels the same. Unlike trueborn boys, bastards know the consequences of extramarital sex.

 

 

I love the jealousy angle with Bella, because Arya turns around and does the exact same thing with Dayne only with much more success. She even notices after that Gendry doesn't like Ned...

 

Oh, they're totally jealous of each other. Arya brings up Bella hundreds of pages later and tells Gendry that he could go back to Stoney Sept and ring that girl's bells for her. Even if she doesn't know what that really means (after all, she is prepubescent still), she doesn't want to lose Gendry's friendship.

 

And of course, Gendry's extremely annoyed that Ned Dayne is of a rank with Arya, and he isn't. It isn't until they start traveling with the Brotherhood that their class differences seem to matter, and that's also when we get the quasi-romantic scenes between them (Acorn Hall, Peach, crabapple projectile).

 

I just don't think it's nasty or disgusting for Gendry to see Arya as someone he could aspire to in a few years if only she weren't highborn. It's actually a purer and deeper sort of affection than the kind that's solely based on sex. And as I stated elsewhere there's certainly plenty of literary precedent for male characters waiting for a younger female character to grow into womanhood... it doesn't mean that, for instance, Almanzo Wilder was a pedophile who wanted to do terrible things to Laura Ingalls. He liked her spirit, they became good friends, and when she grew up, she became his wife and we got the Little House on the Prairie books out of it. Nothing is disgusting about any of it except for what's in dirty people's minds.

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Something that needs to be brought up again doesn't even need any deep analysis: Gendry is a bastard, and has suffered the stigma of bastardy all his life. Just as Jon wouldn't want to father a bastard child and subject him/her to everything he's gone through, I'm sure that Gendry feels the same. Unlike trueborn boys, bastards know the consequences of extramarital sex.

 

 

 

Oh, they're totally jealous of each other. Arya brings up Bella hundreds of pages later and tells Gendry that he could go back to Stoney Sept and ring that girl's bells for her. Even if she doesn't know what that really means (after all, she is prepubescent still), she doesn't want to lose Gendry's friendship.

 

And of course, Gendry's extremely annoyed that Ned Dayne is of a rank with Arya, and he isn't. It isn't until they start traveling with the Brotherhood that their class differences seem to matter, and that's also when we get the quasi-romantic scenes between them (Acorn Hall, Peach, crabapple projectile).

 

I just don't think it's nasty or disgusting for Gendry to see Arya as someone he could aspire to in a few years if only she weren't highborn. It's actually a purer and deeper sort of affection than the kind that's solely based on sex. And as I stated elsewhere there's certainly plenty of literary precedent for male characters waiting for a younger female character to grow into womanhood... it doesn't mean that, for instance, Almanzo Wilder was a pedophile who wanted to do terrible things to Laura Ingalls. He liked her spirit, they became good friends, and when she grew up, she became his wife and we got the Little House on the Prairie books out of it. Nothing is disgusting about any of it except for what's in dirty people's minds.

Well said!  :cheers:

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I just don't think it's nasty or disgusting for Gendry to see Arya as someone he could aspire to in a few years if only she weren't highborn. It's actually a purer and deeper sort of affection than the kind that's solely based on sex. And as I stated elsewhere there's certainly plenty of literary precedent for male characters waiting for a younger female character to grow into womanhood...

I agree

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