The Baratheon Bastards, Any Impact On The Story?

[Fat Mac]

Either Stannis or Dany...so the Baratheon line does not end.  The current Baratheons all have Targaryen blood from Aegon V's daughter Rhaelle.  So Robert's kids are not only nieces and nephews to Stannis, but also cousins to Dany.  And cousins to Jon if he is Rhaegar's son.

 

I don't expect Jon to be king but if he ends up saddled with that ugly chair I could see him showing some respect for the fact that the Baratheons are also descended from the Durrandon Storm Kings of old, and making sure the line continues.

 

Started with a rumored bastard.  

 

We don't know how important the Baratheons are to the Stormlands, but I'm inclined to think they're very important, since they carry blood of the Storm King. If not them ruling in the Stormlands, who? That's why I think one of the bastards will be legitimized should Stannis, Shireen and technically Tommen and Myrcella die.

 

So I agree with you that whoever takes the IT will make an effort to keep Baratheon blood around, even if it's a Targaryen.

[Curled Finger]

In the few pages I actually got to read young Edric, it was obvious that he was a big fan of his dead beat father.   He wouldn't help a Targaryan take SE.  But he could get ticked off enough about it to do something.  And he is the acknowledged one.  Edric would be the Baratheon to rally the supporters. Not sure Mya knows who her father is.  Gendry has a good chance of learning who his father was.   In the same vein as Edric, Gendry would be the one to rally the Riverlands to the BWB (sanctioned by King Robert) and maybe straighten its mission statement out.  

[Lady Blizzardborn]

In case I forgot to mention it on the first three pages, I'd also like to put in a shout-out for Gendry as the valonqar.

[Hippocras]

We don't know that. Griff says he WANTS to take the castle by guile. We don't know if that implies getting close and then unleash a butchery.
 
[spoiler]
Also, according to Arianne, the whole thing has been bloody. It could be easily a rumour (as the rumours of Jon killing the little Griffins), but so far we have no evidence of being so
[/spoiler]

This isn't how I remember it but I don't have the books handy so I believe you...


but even if it was bloody, Storm's End is supposed to be basically impossible to take. A bloody battle without a prolonged siege? How and why? No, something gave Aegon and co. access. By far the most likely is that they somehow used Edric.

[melx]

Either Stannis or Dany...so the Baratheon line does not end.  The current Baratheons all have Targaryen blood from Aegon V's daughter Rhaelle.  So Robert's kids are not only nieces and nephews to Stannis, but also cousins to Dany.  And cousins to Jon if he is Rhaegar's son.

 

I don't expect Jon to be king but if he ends up saddled with that ugly chair I could see him showing some respect for the fact that the Baratheons are also descended from the Durrandon Storm Kings of old, and making sure the line continues.

 

Started with a rumored bastard.  

Stannis ? is not coming back from north unless GRRM doesn't pull LSH 2.0 out of his hat :ack:

Dany ? where does this nonsense about "expecting Dany to be forgiving & generous to starks and now to Baratheons too" come from ?

Dany will not legitimizes bastards to renew usurper line, no way. In fact usurper & his dogs got off easy(all dying) or else they would experienced true meaning of pain trough "Fire and Blood"

[Hippocras]

In the few pages I actually got to read young Edric, it was obvious that he was a big fan of his dead beat father.   He wouldn't help a Targaryan take SE.  But he could get ticked off enough about it to do something.  And he is the acknowledged one.  Edric would be the Baratheon to rally the supporters. Not sure Mya knows who her father is.  Gendry has a good chance of learning who his father was.   In the same vein as Edric, Gendry would be the one to rally the Riverlands to the BWB (sanctioned by King Robert) and maybe straighten its mission statement out.

What good does being a fan of his father do him, when his father is dead, his uncle wanted to burn him alive, his castle was taken from him first by the uncle, then besieged by Tarly...the kid has nothing. Nothing at all. So legitimization is pretty much all he can hope for and he will take it from a "Targaryen" if a Targaryen offers.

Do something? With what? He has no castle, no bannermen, no money, no supporters. Noone in the Kingdoms felt all that passionately about the Baratheon "dynasty" if a single generation can be called that, that they will rally behind a child bastard.

[Curled Finger]

I am sure there are Baratheon loyal supporters out there. If I've learned anything from the Rickon hype it is that people will rally to anyone with the right name if that name is helpful in attaining their ends. Edric could have had ZERO pages or thought Robert was a bum. How often are any kids saved from anything in this story. By himself I agree that Edric is powerless but if that Baratheon name is required I have no doubt Edric will be the first to get it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

This isn't how I remember it but I don't have the books handy so I believe you...


but even if it was bloody, Storm's End is supposed to be basically impossible to take. A bloody battle without a prolonged siege? How and why? No, something gave Aegon and co. access. By far the most likely is that they somehow used Edric.

 

Yes. I agree that not because the whole thing was a trickery there wasn't blood involved.

 

Also, maybe he's considering doing it by guile but hasn't yet fully developed the whole plan.

[Minuteman]

One thing that may complicate the succession. If Mel burns Shireen (likely given that GRRM recommended the show do this) then House Barratheon becomes extinct with Stannis' death. To avert this Stannis would likely, imho, legitimate Robert's one known acknowledged son (by a Florent no less), Edric Storm. When Robert was dying he had Ned write out his will but when Robert said that the IT was to be left to "my son Joffrey" Ned wrote instead "my heir". So if Edric is legitimized then he is Robert's heir and therefore king by Robert's will. It may be yet another complication to the succession.

[VenezuelanLord]

Stannis ? is not coming back from north unless GRRM doesn't pull LSH 2.0 out of his hat :ack:
Dany ? where does this nonsense about "expecting Dany to be forgiving & generous to starks and now to Baratheons too" come from ?
Dany will not legitimizes bastards to renew usurper line, no way. In fact usurper & his dogs got off easy(all dying) or else they would experienced true meaning of pain trough "Fire and Blood"

Dany won't do shit because she doesn't know her kingdom, she has to work with what she has, just like the north won't follow anyone who isn't a Stark, the Stormlands will not follow someone who isn't descended from the Stormkings, so unless she is a maniac conqueror who only concern is fire and blood, then yeah she will have to legitimize an Usurper Bastard to gain the Stormlands support

[Hippocras]

I am sure there are Baratheon loyal supporters out there. If I've learned anything from the Rickon hype it is that people will rally to anyone with the right name if that name is helpful in attaining their ends. Edric could have had ZERO pages or thought Robert was a bum. How often are any kids saved from anything in this story. By himself I agree that Edric is powerless but if that Baratheon name is required I have no doubt Edric will be the first to get it.

You are talking about very different things as if they are comparable.

Rickon is a legitimate Stark, in a place with intense Stark loyalty that goes back thousands of years, and where Starks have been in power for like forever.

vs.

King Robert, the only Baratheon king ever, whose rule noone disputes was really quite inept, and who was basically only King because of the overwhelming desire to throw out the guys before him...not because people actually passionately wanted King Robert. There is no doubt that within the Stormlands there will be support for Edric as the new Lord of Storm's End, but noone is going to rally behind him as their King...if one or two random Storm Lords did this, they would find no wider support and would get themselves killed. So Edric is never going to be anything more than a popular candidate for Lord of Storm's End under some other King. That king might as well be Aegon.

[VenezuelanLord]

You are talking about very different things as if they are comparable.

Rickon is a legitimate Stark, in a place with intense Stark loyalty that goes back thousands of years, and where Starks have been in power for like forever.

vs.

King Robert, the only Baratheon king ever, whose rule noone disputes was really quite inept, and who was basically only King because of the overwhelming desire to throw out the guys before him...not because people actually passionately wanted King Robert. There is no doubt that within the Stormlands there will be support for Edric as the new Lord of Storm's End, but noone is going to rally behind him as their King...if one or two random Storm Lords did this, they would find no wider support and would get themselves killed. So Edric is never going to be anything more than a popular candidate for Lord of Storm's End under some other King. That king might as well be Aegon.

He was the first Baratheon King of the 7K the Baratheons have been StormKings
No one said Edric would be a candidate to the IT, his part to play is at the stormlands as you said, once the war is over and with all the legitimate baratheons death, the new King/Queen could legitimize Edric as a Baratheons and hand him SE, this would save the new reign the trouble of quenching any uprising in the stormlands, just like the north follows the KITN descendants, the stormlands follows the StormKing's

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Stannis ? is not coming back from north unless GRRM doesn't pull LSH 2.0 out of his hat :ack:

Dany ? where does this nonsense about "expecting Dany to be forgiving & generous to starks and now to Baratheons too" come from ?

Dany will not legitimizes bastards to renew usurper line, no way. In fact usurper & his dogs got off easy(all dying) or else they would experienced true meaning of pain trough "Fire and Blood"

Have you been watching the show, or do you have a crystal ball?  We don't know what's going to happen with Stannis but he doesn't actually have to make it back from the north to legitimize his brother's bastards.  Then if whoever actually does end up on the Iron Throne doesn't vacate the order, it will stand and there will still be Baratheons.

 

I said nothing about Dany forgiving anyone.  She's the daughter of King CrazyPyroPants, so she is the last person in a position to blame children for the actions of their parents.  When she learns the extent of her father's madness and horrifying actions, she'll have to rethink a few things.

 

Like it or not, Robert's children are Dany's cousins, descended from her great aunt Rhaelle Targaryen, and from Orys Baratheon who may have been half-brother to Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys.  After Aegon is killed they will be the last relatives she has left.  And for stability's sake it would be best to have a Baratheon ruling the Stormlands as they have for hundreds of years, and as their Durrandon forbears did for thousands of years before that.  If Dany expects to rule Westeros she's going to have to respect the history.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

legitimized by whom & why ?

Baratheon line/name will be ended, they started with a bastard and will end with being bastards.

By Jon as a favor to Arya after Gendry reforges Ice

[Hippocras]

He was the first Baratheon King of the 7K the Baratheons have been StormKings
No one said Edric would be a candidate to the IT, his part to play is at the stormlands as you said, once the war is over and with all the legitimate baratheons death, the new King/Queen could legitimize Edric as a Baratheons and hand him SE, this would save the new reign the trouble of quenching any uprising in the stormlands, just like the north follows the KITN descendants, the stormlands follows the StormKing's

No, Baratheons were never Storm kings. The first Baratheon married the daughter of the last Storm King, but the Storm kings were not Baratheons.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Anyone who thinks that Edric Storm and Rickon Stark haven't been shrink-wrapped and shipped offscreen to preserve Houses Baratheon and Stark needs to re-read the series. That's the ONLY function that both characters have right now, although Edric may be a factor in TWoW.

 

As for Robert's other bastards, who cares who gets SE in the rainy stormy depressing Stormlands? Gendry and Mya are my faves simply because we've seen them both in multiple characters' POVs. They're great secondary/tertiary characters and they're great friends for my Stark girls. As a reader, I'm far more emotionally invested in them than I am in Edric Storm... but selfishly, I don't want either to inherit SE. I want Mya in the Vale, and Gendry smithing for the wars to come. 

 

Edric can have SE. Of course, if there were any justice, darling Shireen should get it, but this is ASOIAF and I am afraid for her in TWoW. So the next in line would be Edric, who's known to everyone in the Stormlands. Fine. Give it to him. Like Shireen, he's half Florent and half Baratheon, and would know the area well. 

 

No, Baratheons were never Storm kings. The first Baratheon married the daughter of the last Storm King, but the Storm kings were not Baratheons.

 

 

The Baratheons are descended from the Durrandons in the female line. So descendants of the last Storm Queen (Argella was Queen, if only for a short time).

[Fat Mac]

No, Baratheons were never Storm kings. The first Baratheon married the daughter of the last Storm King, but the Storm kings were not Baratheons.

 

Lyonel Baratheon declared himself Storm King. So technically, there has been a Baratheon Storm King.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

 

Lyonel Baratheon declared himself Storm King. So technically, there has been a Baratheon Storm King.

 

Great catch!  :cheers:

 

(Personally, I think that Robert should have proclaimed himself Storm King and smashed the IT. It doesn't sit well with me that he never abolished the Targaryen institutions. Seems a bit hypocritical to want to kill all the Targs, and yet not establish totally different customs and institutions...)

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

 

Great catch!  :cheers:

 

(Personally, I think that Robert should have proclaimed himself Storm King and smashed the IT. It doesn't sit well with me that he never abolished the Targaryen institutions. Seems a bit hypocritical to want to kill all the Targs, and yet not establish totally different customs and institutions...)

But that is Robert in a nutshell.

Robert didnt care about the Throne, or justice or changing the way things were done. It was just a matter of "He took what was mine and now I will put down my ale and smash him!"

[melx]

 she is a maniac conqueror who only concern is fire and blood

here we go again with double standards... :bang:

when Ned & co go on rampage  and kill almost all Targs and that is honorable & justified,after all they(little babes too) killed his father & brother,not to mention all the calls for "justice"(aka "kill'em all") that needs to be served to Boltons & Frays for what they did to starks,but when is time for Dany to repay in kind for what was done by usurper & his dogs to her father,mother(stress & grief  sure took its toll) brother & his children --- then she is "maniac"

 

the Stormlands will not follow someone who isn't descended from the Stormkings

Why not? there is nothing stormlords will gain from some bastard (you mentioned earlier that being part Florent will work in his favor but Florents are from the Reach and that working against him is far more likely) in fact some of them can hope to become new Lord Paramount of the Stormlands and more important share amongst them land & wealth of dead Baratheons.

There is one little thing that you seem to overlook: after Stannis was crushed at Blackwater "Stormlands" were doing just fine without Baratheons & all people there were good servants to the King (kill a lot of northmen in riverlands just to prove themselves)