SerLinginBerry Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I was just doing my first reread of ACoK and came across this line when Tyrion is sniffing out the mole on the Small Council during his conversation with Varys. Page 276 in mass market paperback. (Varys to Tyrion) "The only puzzle is what you might have offered for his {Doran Martell's} allegiance. The prince is a sentimental man, and he still mourns his sister Elia and her sweet babe." Babe....singular. Elia had two children. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resonant Frequency Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Rhaenys probably wouldn't qualify as a "babe" anymore, she was more of a toddler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerLinginBerry Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 So Doran only mourns Aegon in addition to Elia? Sounds like that would just be debating semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Considering he sent Tyrion to Aegon, maybe he wanted to put the doubt on his head? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Velar Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Rhaenys probably wouldn't qualify as a "babe" anymore, she was more of a toddler. Well by "babe" he could've just been saying Rhaenys to begin with and just used babe to just simply describe her child (Rhaenys :P) Does not have to exclusively been baby or toddler etc just a word used for her deceased child. But yea it is very peculiar that it is singular. He could've easily said babes and added that s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resonant Frequency Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 If this means that aegon is real, I'm all for it. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Barbrey Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Good catch! If it isn't a typo, or authorial error, it's a slip of some kind. Rhaenys was three or almost three, and he's spoken of her fondly on more than one occasion, so he might be referring to her as 'sweet babe'. It can be a more generic term for small children unlike the more specific 'baby'. On the other hand, he could be grouping Elia in with the actual baby because the two of them were killed together. The second seems less likely to me from the sentence wording. So once again if it's not author error or typo (and it could very well be), he believes one of them is alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerLinginBerry Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Adding to it, if I remember correctly, Tyrion, in his head, refers to Aegon as "the prince" before Aegon confirms his identity in ADwD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 It is odd that he only mentions one of the kids, even if he's referring to Aegon. It's like Rhaenys never existed :( By the way, there's another (potential) Varys slip (or foreshadowing, whatever you wanna call it) in aCoK: "They say [the comet] comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow" A king (not queen) + fire and blood = Aegon. Maybe Varys was already planting seeds and rumors amongst the people of KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerLinginBerry Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 It would be odd for Varys to think Doran would exclude either child. Firstly, because they're his family and secondly because of Dorne's laws on inheritance. Rhaenys could have been as important as Aegon had she survived and Aegon died. Either would make a strong candidate for Dorne to rally behind due to their culture and laws. Much the same way Arianne wanted to position Myrcella against Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I think it is either an error or a hint about aegon. I tend to count it as an error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yes, this is one of the hints in the text leading up to the Aegon reveal. Although I missed all of the foreshadowing of someone at least claiming to be Aegon showing up, but on re-read (once I already knew Aegon was coming) it was obvious. And this is one of those clues. I am about 90% convinced that Aegon is exactly who he appears to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerLinginBerry Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Why an error? If you don't mind my asking, that is. Not looking to start an argument. I'm just curious. It seems like every word of dialogue is meticulously thought out before being submitted for publishing, and while that in and of itself does not guarantee that it is not an error, it does strike me as odd. Readers have inferred much from subtle references, rusty tavern signs, and things that people did not say. Whereas this is something that was said plain as day, and has probably run through a dozen different times by the time I got my paperback HBO advertising edition of the book. I just think editors would've caught something like this beforehand. But considering that Aegon shows up 3 books later, it seems intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Barbrey Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 It is odd that he only mentions one of the kids, even if he's referring to Aegon. It's like Rhaenys never existed :( By the way, there's another (potential) Varys slip (or foreshadowing, whatever you wanna call it) in aCoK: "They say [the comet] comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow" A king (not queen) + fire and blood = Aegon. Maybe Varys was already planting seeds and rumors amongst the people of KL. I bet he was planting the seeds. Wenever I see 'king' or 'prince' in prophecies in the series, I just consider it to include a possible queen or princess. It seems to me it just means monarch but they use king the way we used to use 'men' to include women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerLinginBerry Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 It seems to me it just means monarch but they use king the way we used to use 'men' to include women. In an interesting aside, I was curious about how titles worked for the British Royal family...not interested but was trying to explain to people why Kate Middleton is not a princess and never will be (can only be born a princess in your own right). However, once Prince Charles ascends the throne, Duchess Kate can be referred to as Princess William of Wales. Kind of like "Mrs." for figurehead royalty. Kinda ties in to the whole male prophecy bias in ASoIaF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saer Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 It doesn't quite make sense--Doran would still mourn both, either way--but oh, good catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 It's odd and difficult to explain. That Rhaenys was a toddler doesn't really cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 In my version of the books, the quote is "and her sweet babes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I was just doing my first reread of ACoK and came across this line when Tyrion is sniffing out the mole on the Small Council during his conversation with Varys. Page 276 in mass market paperback. (Varys to Tyrion) "The only puzzle is what you might have offered for his {Doran Martell's} allegiance. The prince is a sentimental man, and he still mourns his sister Elia and her sweet babe." Babe....singular. Elia had two children. Thoughts? Nice catch! Rhaenys probably wouldn't qualify as a "babe" anymore, she was more of a toddler. In medieval times a toddler was often referred to as a "babe." Rhaenys was 2 or 3 when she died. That's well within babe territory. If the word had been baby or infant you'd have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 In my version of the books, the quote is "and her sweet babes". What's the copyright date on yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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