Mithras Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 People argue that ASOIAF is "too good" to include a chosen one as the one true hero because that is overly done in the genre and boring; consequently, there should be a group of heroes setting their differences aside and making common cause to save the mankind. So what do you think? The Chosen One vs. Avengers? Which is more cliché? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I don't care either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Why do you hate the Avengers movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 :laugh: Both are cliches. But I think both will co-exist in ASOIAF but in heavily altered versions. Azor Ahai is the chosen one; but he is chosen to bring the summer that never ends (the fire version of a post apocalypse paradise) And yes, heroes are gathering but we don't know which of the multiple factions they will join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Which one has Chris Hemsworth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Which one has Chris Hemsworth? He is on the fire team, but he is recovering from the sex change operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm all for the Westerosi avengers. Tree Boy, Captain Snowflake, Dragon Woman, Dr Imp, Wolf girl and Gold Hand to the rescue! :cool4: Anyway, I would say "The Chose One" trope is more cliché and unrealistic. I don't like the idea of the fate of the world resting on one person's shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Who is the wolf girl Arya or Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocs Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Avengers is extremely cliche. I just couldn't find any of the characters interesting, except maybe, Hulk. Also, Chris Hemsworth's 'hotness' is overrated, he's a bit weird looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think we clearly need a [i]Guardians of the Galaxy[/i] rather than an [i]Avengers[/i]: a bunch of misfits and criminals who raise unlikely allies, but in the end have to use the power of friendship to defeat magic. Darkstarlord the handsome rogue, with Arianne and the Sand Snakes as his Ravagers; Gamorasha, the warrior woman raised as the daughter of a villain, Socket Summer (warged by Bran) and I Am Hodor the lovable sidekick with a limited lexicon... they just need to meet up somewhere, and then find their Drax, and they can grab the infinity crystal from the Heart of Winter.(For the record, [i]Guardians[/i] is one of my favorite action movies of all time, while [i]Avengers[i] is just in the top 10% or so, but that's not why I think Friendship Is Magic is more important than There's No I in Team here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Who is the wolf girl Arya or Sansa?I'd wager the one that still is connected to her wolf. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm all for the Westerosi avengers. Tree Boy, Captain Snowflake, Dragon Woman, Dr Imp, Wolf girl and Gold Hand to the rescue! :cool4: Anyway, I would say "The Chose One" trope is more cliché and unrealistic. I don't like the idea of the fate of the world resting on one person's shoulders.:Agree: That team sounds awesome btw. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hmm, why the alternative to The One must be the Avengers? I mean, the head participants of the Yalta Conference had not exactly put their differences aside while they were fighting the common enemy, neither did they become BFFs in the proccess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Avengers wouldn't have been so cliche if Wheadon had adapted "Dissasembled" a bit more faithfully but whatever. In any case, most of the so-called "heroes" of asoiaf are so grey, they'd be more "Thunderbolts" than "Avengers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Who is the wolf girl Arya or Sansa?We're talking Marvel here, so it's obviously the tortured young girl turned killing machine who spent time as part of an X-Treme violent organization before becoming an Avenger.Sansa Stark has alliteration going for her, so she qualifies to cross the aisle and join the Justice League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Flowers Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think he's talking about a trope rather than the Marvel super hero team. I also think the point is well taken about essentially having to chose between supposed literary clichés. I think that after a certain point, writing to consciously avoid any themes or events that could possibly be taken as "clichéd" is every bit as artificial as relying upon the same to carry one's narrative. I genuinely hope that Martin has a good story in mind and that that story gets told properly, whether people consider parts of it to be clichéd or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think that it's only a cliché if it's done poorly. That being said, "Chosen One" has definitely been done more, though I don't think that makes it inherently inferior or more vulnerable to cliché. There are still billions of ways to do "Chosen One" well, and differently then it has been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Anyone who thinks that GRRM must avoid all cliches at all costs or his story will suck is missing the lesson that other "trope-breakers" have learned and explained.Michael Moorcock is the obvious example here, but since we're talking about The Avengers, let's look at Joss Whedon. From the moment he got involved with the MCU project, he's wanted to find a way to fit a romance into an action movie that didn't follow either the "damsel in distress" story or the "fighting side-by-side to save the world" story. And yet, in Age of Ultron, the romance between Black Widow and Hulk is the latter, played pretty much straight. Their romance avoids obvious tropes in other ways (most notably, Black Widow is not interested in the Hulk because he's the Hulk; in fact, she has to overcome the Hulkness to connect with Bruce Banner). But, as Whedon explained, if he actually wanted to avoid all of the tropes, he'd have to somehow sideline one of them from the action, for no good story-internal reason. Which would have been stupid, so he didn't do it. Tropes become tropes because they fit organically into a wide variety of stories, so dogmatically avoiding them is even worse than unthinkingly following them.So it doesn't matter which cliche is "more cliche". If the natural outgrowth of GRRM's story approaches one of those cliches, that's the one he'll end up on; if it approaches neither, he won't end up on either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 You're asking the wrong question OP, but if you want to go by what's been done more than Chosen One certainly has been done more than Team of Heroes in the history of human storytelling. But the relevant question is what kind of a story are we reading. If it was a "chosen one" story it would be told from one perspective (or maybe 2 - sometimes you have the chosen one as a young child, and someone has to tell their story while they are too young to tell it themselves). This is a book told from the perspective of 3 major characters, and several supporting characters many of which have clear connections to the final conflict. The majority of which are likely to be involved in the final conflict based on hints throughout the books. Bam, Avengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Maybe it is a "chosen fellowship". A Fellowship against others. Of course the leader is aragorn of westeros, aka jon snow. Frodo? Tyrion? Or Gimli? Tyrion? Dany is the female version of legolas greenleaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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