Jump to content

The Chosen One vs. Avengers: Which is more Cliche?


Mithras

Recommended Posts

Maybe the Chosen One fucks up everything, like Anakin.

 

I'll laugh until I die if Jon results to be Lightbringer, AA, TPTWP, NCAA and the rest of the alphabet only to be the one who unleash the Apocalypse and Dany has to kill him.

 

 

"Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she’d appeared."

 

Yep, Darth Dragonspawn!

 

 (Darth Snowflake just doesn't have the same ring to it).

 

He comes across as dangerous in this dream. He gets to the point where he kills Ygritte!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the choice is only between these two, I'd rather have the Avengers. If only because a series with so many PoVs ending up with only 1 guy/gal having the world rests on his/her shoulders would make the rest of the poor chumps seem like wastes of time.

 

Myself, I think we're going to have a three-way, team 1 vs team 2 vs Others. Perhaps a four-way depending on how wild cards like Stannis or Branraven behave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Yep, Darth Dragonspawn!

 

 (Darth Snowflake just doesn't have the same ring to it).

 

He comes across as dangerous in this dream. He gets to the point where he kills Ygritte!

 

I don't believe this will indeed happen, but it wouldn't kill people to remember that Jon is not only Lyanna's son. He also shares blood with Viserys, Aerys II, Maegor, Aerion, Daeron the Rogue Prince and a few other dangerous Targaryens. He has the same potential to become mad and dangerous as Dany.

 

Also, how many "crazy" Targ women we know? How do we know for sure is a gene that appears only in males? Maybe Visenya's sorcery cursed them all after Aegon so desperately wanted a son.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 small to medium dragons aren't going to bring on an apocalypse. The Others are obviously the threat that needs to be stopped. They were in our very first introduction to the story.

 

For the record, I agree. But once the Others are gone, the dragons should go too. Balance and all. They'll have no more reason to exist other than helping Targaryen/Valyrian ambitions

 

And the original Long Night (which most likely led to the rise of the Others) may well have been the unintended blowback of the creation of dragons

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you are the weapon the Lord has given me. I have found you here, as you found the cache of dragonglass beneath the Fist, and I mean to make use of you. Even Azor Ahai did not win his war alone.

 

Dany folded her hands together. “Words are wind, even words like love and peace. I put more trust in deeds. In my Seven Kingdoms, knights go on quests to prove themselves worthy of the maiden that they love. They seek for magic swords, for chests of gold, for crowns stolen from a dragon’s hoard.”

...

Hizdahr arched an eyebrow. “The only dragons that I know are yours, and magic swords are even scarcer.”

...

Hizdahr looked thoughtful. “Ninety days and ninety nights without a corpse, and on the ninety-first we wed?”
“Perhaps,” said Dany, with a coy look. “Though young girls have been known to be fickle. I may still want a magic sword.”
 
“Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you’ll find in all the Night’s Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?
 
**Grumkins give three wishes and the last must carefully be made; Lightbringer was forged successfully on the third try.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
So Jon vs Dany. Ice vs Fire. 


As far as chosen ones going dark, I'd prefer it was Bran who did, under the influence of BR and the COTF. It would be maximally tragic for that to be the final outcome for this innocent boy. BR may want vengeance, and the COTF certainly are no friends to mankind.

So it could be ice (Bran) v fire (Dany) with jon somewhere in the middle. I don't think this fits either chosen one or avengers very neatly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont mind both as long as we get the books and its martins story so i will read his story

wat am against is those who only want a certain character as chosen one or certain team as avengers and wanting and wishing that a certain single character will be the ultimate evil and cant even entertain the possiblity that the character may be a chosen one or part of the team
Link to comment
Share on other sites

wat am against is those who only want a certain character as chosen one

 

From your post history, you do seem to believe that Dany is the Chosen One.

 

Not that I have any problem with it. From what I see, if there is a Chosen One in the story, it is either Jon or Dany. Believing in one way or the other is up to the reader.

 

But what I do not approve from both sides is this disingenuous attitude seen among some part of the both fandoms: they say that there is no Chosen One in the story yet everything they post reflects that they believe in their own Chosen Ones be it Jon or Dany. I think the reason why they cannot openly declare what they actually believe is the thought that a Chosen One story is inferior or believing in a Chosen One story is low level readership.

 

So, as a person who believes that Jon is the Chosen One, I am perfectly ok with people who believe that Dany is the Chosen One and openly declare it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

02
From your post history, you do seem to believe that Dany is the Chosen One.
02
Not that I have any problem with it. From what I see, if there is a Chosen One in the story, it is either Jon or Dany. Believing in one way or the other is up to the reader.
02
But what I do not approve from both sides is this disingenuous attitude seen among some part of the both fandoms: they say that there is no Chosen One in the story yet everything they post reflects that they believe in their own Chosen Ones be it Jon or Dany. I think the reason why they cannot openly declare what they actually believe is the thought that a Chosen One story is inferior or believing in a Chosen One story is low level readership.
02
So, as a person who believes that Jon is the Chosen One, I am perfectly ok with people who believe that Dany is the Chosen One and openly declare it.

i think people do believe and declare that ..like u said i believe dany is the one and you think jon and others think that it is jon dany tyrion

but what my point was even though i believe that prophecy speaks of dany ..she cant win alone she will be needing the help from jon and others ..

it was harry who was chosen one but without albus dumbledore ,hermione and ron he would never have won
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are tropes and archetypes. It's how they are written and used that turns them into Cliches and Stereotypes.

 

There are tons of tropes and archetypes in ASOIAF.

Knights in shining armour and Dragons and damsels in distress and an orphanage prince brought up not knowing it. But GRRM writes them to be fresh and with twists so that they are not cliche or stereotypes.

 

I don't get the argument that GRRM can't have a choosen one (or any other trope) because it's cliche. R+L=J follows a well trodden trope of the genre but is certainly not cliche.

 

Neither Choosen One nor Avengers is more cliche than the other unless the author writes them to be so...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Avengers please. Or since Bran might become a tree, Guardians of the Galaxy. Maybe they can get Vin Diesel to voice Bran when he speaks through a weirwood tree?

 

Anyone who thinks that GRRM must avoid all cliches at all costs or his story will suck is missing the lesson that other "trope-breakers" have learned and explained.

Michael Moorcock is the obvious example here, but since we're talking about The Avengers, let's look at Joss Whedon. From the moment he got involved with the MCU project, he's wanted to find a way to fit a romance into an action movie that didn't follow either the "damsel in distress" story or the "fighting side-by-side to save the world" story. And yet, in Age of Ultron, the romance between Black Widow and Hulk is the latter, played pretty much straight. Their romance avoids obvious tropes in other ways (most notably, Black Widow is not interested in the Hulk because he's the Hulk; in fact, she has to overcome the Hulkness to connect with Bruce Banner). But, as Whedon explained, if he actually wanted to avoid all of the tropes, he'd have to somehow sideline one of them from the action, for no good story-internal reason. Which would have been stupid, so he didn't do it. Tropes become tropes because they fit organically into a wide variety of stories, so dogmatically avoiding them is even worse than unthinkingly following them.

So it doesn't matter which cliche is "more cliche". If the natural outgrowth of GRRM's story approaches one of those cliches, that's the one he'll end up on; if it approaches neither, he won't end up on either.

 

Great post. A cliche or trope is just a tool; it's how one uses them that matters. The previously mentioned Guardians was as tropey as you can get, but it was tonnes of fun and a great movie.

 

Side note: Am I the only one who would love a Black Widow stand-alone movie? And not just as an excuse to watch Scarlett Johansson in a tight leather outfit, but because Black Widow is a great character?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Avengers please. Or since Bran might become a tree, Guardians of the Galaxy. Maybe they can get Vin Diesel to voice Bran when he speaks through a weirwood tree?
 
 
Great post. A cliche or trope is just a tool; it's how one uses them that matters. The previously mentioned Guardians was as tropey as you can get, but it was tonnes of fun and a great movie.
 
Side note: Am I the only one who would love a Black Widow stand-alone movie? And not just as an excuse to watch Scarlett Johansson in a tight leather outfit, but because Black Widow is a great character?

Vin Diesel: HODOR!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Avengers please. Or since Bran might become a tree, Guardians of the Galaxy. Maybe they can get Vin Diesel to voice Bran when he speaks through a weirwood tree?
 
 
Great post. A cliche or trope is just a tool; it's how one uses them that matters. The previously mentioned Guardians was as tropey as you can get, but it was tonnes of fun and a great movie.
 
Side note: Am I the only one who would love a Black Widow stand-alone movie? And not just as an excuse to watch Scarlett Johansson in a tight leather outfit, but because Black Widow is a great character?

Probably the movie wont be profitable, but I would love stand-alone film, CA2 was awesome, because it was based around shield and espionage.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

People argue that ASOIAF is "too good" to include a chosen one as the one true hero because that is overly done in the genre and boring; consequently, there should be a group of heroes setting their differences aside and making common cause to save the mankind.

 

So what do you think? The Chosen One vs. Avengers? Which is more cliché?

 

The only non-cliché approach would be the random combination of minor events and actions through a Garbage Can into a positive resolution of the current problem. 

But then people would make their own heroes out of totally normal people who got lucky and only by chance contributed to the story.

Is it better? I don't know. Perhaps it's more realistic. But very hard to write.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Side note: Am I the only one who would love a Black Widow stand-alone movie? And not just as an excuse to watch Scarlett Johansson in a tight leather outfit, but because Black Widow is a great character?

 

You are probably the only one.

 

I for one want to watch Scarlett in tight leather outfit forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...