The Chosen One vs. Avengers: Which is more Cliche?

[redeagl]

As far as chosen ones going dark, I'd prefer it was Bran who did, under the influence of BR and the COTF. It would be maximally tragic for that to be the final outcome for this innocent boy. BR may want vengeance, and the COTF certainly are no friends to mankind.

So it could be ice (Bran) v fire (Dany) with jon somewhere in the middle. I don't think this fits either chosen one or avengers very neatly.

 

This isn't as bad as the chosen one or The Avengers.

[Mithras]

Great post. A cliche or trope is just a tool; it's how one uses them that matters. The previously mentioned Guardians was as tropey as you can get, but it was tonnes of fun and a great movie.

 

Then we should agree that “there will not be a one true hero that will save the mankind because it is cliché and George is a trope breaker” is not a valid argument. Sadly, many people raise this argument as if George cannot find any way to come up with something original by using the Chosen One trope. Or as if George is immune to write bad plots.

[WSmith84]

 

Then we should agree that “there will not be a one true hero that will save the mankind because it is cliché and George is a trope breaker” is not a valid argument. Sadly, many people raise this argument as if George cannot find any way to write something original with the Chosen One trope. Or as if George is immune to write bad plots.

 

I do find that argument annoying, although I would prefer George to avoid the Chosen One trope. However, I'm sure if George does use it, he'll do it well.

[redeagl]

I would be heatbroken if it ended good vs evil . And if GRRM is a good writer then the Others are more than just killing machines.

[Ser Patroclo]

I would be heatbroken if it ended good vs evil . And if GRRM is a good writer then the Others are more than just killing machines.

 

Since when Evil = Killing Machines? That's untrue even in LOTR.

[redeagl]

 

Since when Evil = Killing Machines? That's untrue even in LOTR.

 

Most of the people say that the Others only kill people without any single purpose. Not me though, but good vs evil is another thing and a bad thing to me.

[Orphalesion]

I could see both and I am sure Martin would write either well. I tend more towards multiple heroes, the world book seems to hint at multiple ones (such as the Girl With the Monkey Tail who likely was a different person from Eldric Shadowchaser, if either of the actually existed) 

 

But why, why are people forgetting Composite Azor Ahai Reborn? He's every single character who ever was suggested or hinted at being AA (Jon, Daenerys, Jaime, Sandor, Birenne, Faegon, Gendry, Davos, Victarion, Euron, Rickon, Tyrion and a ham) fused into a giant dude with a flaming sword (not Stannis though, because, to paraphrase Renly, "No one wants you to be part of them, Stannis!" j/k)

 

I further suggest that composite AA is at roughly 12 feet tall, the sword is about 5 feet, Theon is his dick and he's also the valonquar, since several of the people who became part of him were someone's younger brother (including both of Cersei's).

 

Furthermore I speculate that composite Azor Ahai would at least have a college level understanding of calculus, his ears can be removed to serve as floating devices and he will carry the remnants of the Others he defeats back to his nest to feed them to his genetically superior yougnlings.

Also the ham can be substituted by tofu if needed.

 

Then he marries Sansa and Arya.     

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The Avengers is not the only team; TGOTG, The X-men, the Fantastic 4, the Justice League, The Fellowship of the Ring, Dumbledore's Army, etc.   I think both ideas have been used a ton, but none are quite so bloody and real as ASOIAF.  That's the big difference, people die, enslaved, raped, robbed, tricked, burned, drowned, Arya'd to death.  It's so much (for lack of a better word) cooler than any other fantasy story ever told. There is no need to try and dumb and it down with comparison's to the (cheesy one-liner) Avenger's.

[Ser Patroclo]

 

Most of the people say that the Others only kill people without any single purpose. Not me though, but good vs evil is another thing and a bad thing to me.

Having a purpose or not having it has nothing to do with the concept of evil.

 

Google it, there are quite a few books exploring this very controversial concept.

[Nictarion]

The Avengers is not the only team; TGOTG, The X-men, the Fantastic 4, the Justice League, The Fellowship of the Ring, Dumbledore's Army, etc.   I think both ideas have been used a ton, but none are quite so bloody and real as ASOIAF.  That's the big difference, people die, enslaved, raped, robbed, tricked, burned, drowned, Arya'd to death.  It's so much (for lack of a better word) cooler than any other fantasy story ever told. There is no need to try and dumb and it down with comparison's to the (cheesy one-liner) Avenger's.

I'm stealing this. :D

[JonCon's Red Beard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjRlp1wgQWw

 

*dances*

 

(hey, the also fight against crazy climatic conditions... Captain Snowflake... he's our hero...!)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I'm stealing this. :D

lol, feel free. It just came to me

[WSmith84]

If it's in the Avengers style, will the show end, credits will roll and then there will be an extra scene? Then more credits and a second extra scene?

[falcotron]

Probably the movie wont be profitable, but I would love stand-alone film, CA2 was awesome, because it was based around shield and espionage.

The big problem with a Black Widow movie is that having Black Widow as a secondary character (but not a sidekick) is part of what made CA2 (and Avengers 2) as good as they were (and so much better than Thor and Hulk). They don't have a secondary character nearly as good as Black Widow to put in a Black Widow movie. Although after seeing Ant-Man, it looks like he (maybe with new Wasp) might be able to pull off that role for her...

Anyway, CA2 is also a great example of how to use tropes without being cliche. The superhero story of Cap and his new sidekick Falcon against his old sidekick turned evil Winter Soldier (which is so well-worn that it's the first story Alan Moore deconstructed in Marvelman) is played almost completely straight. But it works. Partly because it's played against a backdrop of human-level espionage and corruption that turns out to be far more important than the superhero story, which is a nice subversion--but also partly because it's just a good story well told. (Plus, they managed to make the dudes feel like Cap got his heroic reward without that reward being the hot chick's body, and make the chicks feel like they're watching people with feelings beyond "whoa! cool explosion!" without those feelings being a romance.)

If it's in the Avengers style, will the show end, credits will roll and then there will be an extra scene? Then more credits and a second extra scene?

Other: The greenseers of this world are not to be underestimated. To do so would be to court death.
Thanos: Mwahahaha.
Other: Ummm, ok... You realize that in our universe, Death is like an old guy with lots of faces in a big hooded robe, not a hot albino chick in skimpy leather, right?
Thanos: Oh yeah, right. So, you guys still have that Night Queen, right? What's her story?

[The Wolves]

 
So Jon vs Dany. Ice vs Fire. 

Please no, I don't want Targaryen on Targaryen violence.

Jon and Dany meeting should be a joyous reunion where Dany learns of her nephew and Jon of his aunt and they work together fighting whatever and whoever as long as it's no Starks.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

I would rather have everybody put aside their differences than have the fate of the world resting on Jon Snow, so I'll go with Chosen One.

[Visenya Stark]

Both are pretty cliche and both will happen. Like Melisandre said, Azor Ahai did not fight his war alone. But I think that whatever GRRM does, he'll do well. 

 

Personally, I'm hoping that either Dany or Jon end up turning evil (Dany is more likely).