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HelenaExMachina

R+L=J v.154

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Come on, you are still stuck in this. 

So if Rhaegar and Aerys died, then KG can just simply discard his order and left Lyanna unguarded?

If A commander died in the middle of the battle, so his soldiers can just simply discarded his command?

If A PhD's mentor died before his graduation, so he can just dropped his dissertation (he can, but then he loses his degree)?

They had to guard Lyanna until she die or to be able to travel and then do something else.

KG did not flee from their duty even Rhaegar and Aerys died. 

 

Are you still stuck on this? The KG are not robots. Are they supposed to follow the order of a dead guy forever and ever even when the situation has changed drastically since the order was given?

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In my own view, I think GRRM is laying out a template that does provide us with a glimpse of what might have been happening through his other body of works.

 

Realistically, it could come down to how like as in our own world,  there are some outdated laws, and no one has bothered to go back and actively remove them, rendering them "illegal."

 

For example,

 

- A lawyer in New York, inspired by GOT, wanted trial by combat.

 

- In Michingan, there is still a law on the books that says wives must check with their husbands before they go to a stylist because the wifes hair belongs to her husband.

 

 

From the reading of the text on Rhaenyra and Daemon, while Polygamy is not rendered "illegal," it seems that even the Targaryens decided it wasn't the best of options even with their own siblings much less involving other unrelated Houses or I think we would have seen them doing it more.

 

Not exactly like Daemon and Rhae, we still see Rhaegars action of taking Lyanna renders her just as "ruined" for other men as Rhaenrya was after Daemons scandelous seduction of her as he appeals to Viserys to have his marriage Rhea Royce set aside.

Daemon was trying to deliberatey put Viserys in a position of giving her to him just Rhaegars kidnapping of Lyanna would put everyone in the position of having to accept the marriage because now she is unmarriagable.

Then, Rhaegar has to hide Lyanna even if a marriage was somewhat public. I would also speculate that marrying Lyanna in such a public way, like his initital crowning her at Harrenhal, puts Elias place in question, especially if it became known by some that Elia had been put aside, which according to GRRM in an SSM from September 8th 2000, "no one has to be present for an annulment."

Of course, Aerys would have to do that unless Rhaegar became king.

 

Annulments:

 

- Renly sought to annul Roberts marriage to Cersei, and this is in context of obvious consumation and Cersei is legitimately afraid.

 

- Baelor dissolved his marriage to Dana the Defiant when he ascended the throne.

 

- Tywin annuled Tyrions marriage to Tysha, also consumated, or else his marriage to Sansa is in question.

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pe--

 

Yes, I think this issue is the crux of where we disagree. I get this argument, and you articulate the position well. Basically, GRRM gave this answer when asked -- that the KG cannot choose their orders and if given an order by Rhaegar (such as protect Lyanna), they cannot disregard the order. I get it and see the argument and why others are persuaded by it -- I am not and here is why. 

 

Consider the circumstances -- Rhaegar, Aegon and Aerys are dead. Of the other 4 KG, two are dead, one is incapacitated, and the last one jsut killed the Targ King. So these 3 KG are on their own in terms of KG protection for the Targ dynasty. Again, assuming that they were loyal to Aerys up to his death and remain loyal to the Targ dynasty and don't have a death wish (we can discuss in more detail the reasons behind each of those assumptions if you want), they have dying Lyanna on their hands AND they learn that Viserys is on DS and is with Darry, who is not a KG. So in theory they can take the position that doing anything other than continuing to guard Lyanna would be fleeing. I understand that GRRM wants everyone to think that the KG are taking this position. I just don't find it plausible under the circumstances.

 

The very basis for the KG -- their reason for being -- is to guard the King. Barristan tells Ned after Robert dies that Barristan's place is beside Joffrey. Only a direct order from Ned stops Barristan from going to Joffrey. Now if Barristan had been on another mission from Robert that was not yet complete, perhaps he would have finished that mission first, but he would have assumed or arranged that another KG would be free to go to Joffrey.

 

Here there are no other KG. These three are the only KG that Viserys can possible have. Under the circumstances, at a minimum, Hightower, as LC, needs to arrange for at least one KG to go to the rightful next king. Given what we have been told about the KG and their vows, the explanation that they could not go to V until ALL THREE finished guarding Lyanna simply makes no sense to me. Might GRRM write the story that way in any event and prove that what makes no sense to me makes perfect sense to him? Of course. But all I can go on is my interpretation of the text, and the logic of the analysis I have seen on this board. And all that information leads me to conclude that such a plot development would not make sense and does not seem to be where GRRM is going with this issue.

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Are you still stuck on this? The KG are not robots. Are they supposed to follow the order of a dead guy forever and ever even when the situation has changed drastically since the order was given?

 

They are indeed suppose to be robots, no judgement, no intervention, no question, no curiosity, just obey. 

This is actually the rule in military troop in any time.

Obey, even it is a wrong order or a suicide order.  

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They are indeed suppose to be robots, no judgement, no intervention, no question, no curiosity, just obey. 

This is actually the rule in military troop in any time.

Obey, even it is a wrong order or a suicide order.  

Actually, that is not how the military works. A battlefield general has to use discretion and sometimes needs to abandon the battle plans of the commander-in-chief. No one expects such a general (which is basically what Hightower is) to be a robot.

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LV--

 

I know we just keep having the same debate. Different people may spark the discussion that gets us onto the topic, but inevitably, we just go round and round between us with the same arguments. For their benefit, I will go into it again.

 

I disagree with your reading of the significance of the naming of an heir. In the history of Westeros, I am aware of no King that came to power based on being named by his predecessor without also being the next in line under normal succession. The point of GC 101 was to clarify the rules of succession -- which would not really be necessary if the King merely can name an heir in any event and that is naturally respected. The main situation in which the successor went "out of order" is Aegon V, and clearly that was the result of a GC. If the King merely gives a formal title to the next in line, I don't really consider that naming the heir. That process is just recognizing who is the next in line.

 

The main example we have in which the King named an heir outside the normal Targ rules of succession, it led to civil war and the named heir (Rhaenyra) was never regarded as having been Queen, despite having controlled KL for a time and having significant support. But nevertheless, only Aegon II is regarding as having been on the IT the entire time. And I have heard your "excuse" that you have made in the past that he managed to get crowned first. I call  :bs: on that one. Such a formality does not explain why no one -- not even her son, Aegon III, seems to consider her to have been Queen. And in any event, that "excuse" still acknowledges that the King's naming of an heir is not really binding. If it can be overcome by a technicality, what good is it?

 

So maybe DoD 1.0 stands for the proposition that a King cannot name someone outside the "normal order" but only a GC can do that. Or maybe a King can name someone, but absent a naming or a GC, the normal order is respected. In that case, if the KG have no knowledge of the naming of an heir after the death of Rhaegar, and there is no ability to call a GC given the state of affairs in KL -- and the small council and all the lords had gone over to Robert -- (so I don't know what point you are making about rebel lords or Varys and Pycelle -- this period is after Robert has been crowned) -- then Jon is the only candidate to be the next Targ King in the eyes of the KG. 

 

So once again, we keep going in the same circles of discussion, but for others who are new to this argument they can see both sides. So to sum it up, I don't see the evidence that a King naming an "out-of-order" heir is necessarily respected as the only real case we have where is mattered, the King's choice was disregarded. I don't think the KG at ToJ had any ability to consider that a GC could be called given that the lords and council were with Robert at that point. Rhaella may be the nominal head of House Targ, but she has no authority to decide who is the next king. Based on the facts that I believe the KG had available to them, Jon was the only candidate for King. They were not making a decision or naming a King by using some discretion -- rather they were following what they believed to be the rules of the Targ dynasty regarding succession.

 

The main reason, however, that I have come to this conclusion is that no other theory makes sense to me. I don't believe it is plausible that Hightower regarded Rhaegar and not Aerys to be King. I don't believe it is plausible that Hightower would consider obeying the orders of the dead crown prince to supersede the need to send at least one KG to DS to be with Viserys if Viserys is the rightful heir (or even a possible contender to be the rightful heir after death of the other royals) -- and the KG definitely would not consider going to DS to be fleeing (or, if you prefer, Ned would not put those words in their mouths even if the dream is not literal). I don't consider it plausible that the KG would have a "death wish" and consider the Targ dynasty lost for all time and thus their duty to die an honorable death. So once I have looked at each of these alternatives that, if plausible, could explain the KG actions without Jon being the rightful Targ heir under normal succession rules in their eyes, and I find each of them implausible. So by process of elimination, the only option left is that they thought Jon was King due to the normal rules of succession and were guarding him for that reason rather than sending at least one KG to DS.

 

A GC is simply a call to all the lords loyal to the royal family to decide which member of the the remaining royal family members will lead them. A GC after Robert had taken the vast majority of the realm's lords fealty doesn't mean that a GC is not possible. It just means that it would only be composed of those still loyal to the Targaryens.

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A GC is simply a call to all the lords loyal to the royal family to decide which member of the the remaining royal family members will lead them. A GC after Robert had taken the vast majority of the realm's lords fealty doesn't mean that a GC is not possible. It just means that it would only be composed of those still loyal to the Targaryens.

By that point, there were none. All had expressed loyalty to Robert by then.

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None. There hasn't been a polygamist Targaryen in Westoros for 234 years by the time Rhaegar abducts Lyanna.


Thank you. I thought as much.

Nor is it ever textually stated that polygamy is no longer a legal option.


Alayne II, AFfC.


Petyr Baelish took her by the hand and drew her down onto his lap. "I have made a marriage contract for you."
"A marriage . . ." Her throat tightened. She did not want to wed again, not now, perhaps not ever. "I do not . . . I cannot marry. Father, I . . ." Alayne looked to the door, to make certain it was closed. "I am married," she whispered. "You know."
Petyr put a finger to her lips to silence her. "The dwarf wed Ned Stark's daughter, not mine. Be that as it may. This is only a betrothal. The marriage must needs wait until Cersei is done and Sansa's safely widowed. And you must meet the boy and win his approval. Lady Waynwood will not make him marry against his will, she was quite firm on that."


Not stated specifically, but draw your own conclusion.

 
The main reason, however, that I have come to this conclusion is that no other theory makes sense to me. I don't believe it is plausible that Hightower regarded Rhaegar and not Aerys to be King. I don't believe it is plausible that Hightower would consider obeying the orders of the dead crown prince to supersede the need to send at least one KG to DS to be with Viserys if Viserys is the rightful heir (or even a possible contender to be the rightful heir after death of the other royals) -- and the KG definitely would not consider going to DS to be fleeing (or, if you prefer, Ned would not put those words in their mouths even if the dream is not literal). I don't consider it plausible that the KG would have a "death wish" and consider the Targ dynasty lost for all time and thus their duty to die an honorable death. So once I have looked at each of these alternatives that, if plausible, could explain the KG actions without Jon being the rightful Targ heir under normal succession rules in their eyes, and I find each of them implausible. So by process of elimination, the only option left is that they thought Jon was King due to the normal rules of succession and were guarding him for that reason rather than sending at least one KG to DS.


I think there are other explanations which are at least equally as plausible as the theory that Jon is legitimate. To begin with it seems to me that Rhaegar had a greater interest in the Song of Ice and Fire than he had in the Game of Thrones. Did he view the child Lyanna was expecting as his heir, albeit a second son, or did he view that child as the third head of the dragon? Considering his obsession with prophecy, I think the latter is very probable.

Dayne and Whent were clearly amongst Rhaegar's closest confidants. We know Rhaegar corresponded with Aemon about the prophecy, why not discuss it with his confidants too. Is it really a stretch to think that he discussed his plans with his close friends and they supported his efforts to produce the prophesied hero?

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Actually, that is not how the military works. A battlefield general has to use discretion and sometimes needs to abandon the battle plans of the commander-in-chief. No one expects such a general (which is basically what Hightower is) to be a robot.

 

Hightower is the commander, but he is under Rheagar when Aerys is not around.

Whatever order Rhaegar gave, certainly overruled Hightower's.

After he died, his unfulfilled order did not become invalid (suppose KG is still loyal). 

 

In military, obey is the most important thing, above anything else. If you have different opinion, you can report to the commander and try to persuade him, but unless the commander changes his mind, the less commander had to follow his order, even it is completely wrong. If the less commander did something different which was proved to be good and successful, still he will be punished or killed for his disobedience. Otherwise who will respect the order of the commander in the future? everybody can say "I have a better idea! let us do it!".  

Solders are not suppose to be robots. they are supposed to give feedback and suggestions to the general and do anything they want within their order (for example, KG was ordered to guard TOJ, it is up to them to decide how they guard it) 

This is how the military works. 

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Other than Viserys as Prince of Dragonstone and probably all his bannermen, and every lord in Dorne that is.

I don't think a seven year-old is going to sit on a GC. And I am not sure when Dorne went for Robert, but Ned felt safe enough traveling there to get to Lyanna. And the KG do not call a GC. The presumption is that none will be called by anyone. Only if one is called based on multiple claims does the issue become relevant.

 

Thank you. I thought as much.


Alayne II, AFfC.


Petyr Baelish took her by the hand and drew her down onto his lap. "I have made a marriage contract for you."
"A marriage . . ." Her throat tightened. She did not want to wed again, not now, perhaps not ever. "I do not . . . I cannot marry. Father, I . . ." Alayne looked to the door, to make certain it was closed. "I am married," she whispered. "You know."
Petyr put a finger to her lips to silence her. "The dwarf wed Ned Stark's daughter, not mine. Be that as it may. This is only a betrothal. The marriage must needs wait until Cersei is done and Sansa's safely widowed. And you must meet the boy and win his approval. Lady Waynwood will not make him marry against his will, she was quite firm on that."


Not stated specifically, but draw your own conclusion.


I think there are other explanations which are at least equally as plausible as the theory that Jon is legitimate. To begin with it seems to me that Rhaegar had a greater interest in the Song of Ice and Fire than he had in the Game of Thrones. Did he view the child Lyanna was expecting as his heir, albeit a second son, or did he view that child as the third head of the dragon? Considering his obsession with prophecy, I think the latter is very probable.

Dayne and Whent were clearly amongst Rhaegar's closest confidants. We know Rhaegar corresponded with Aemon about the prophecy, why not discuss it with his confidants too. Is it really a stretch to think that he discussed his plans with his close friends and they supported his efforts to produce the prophesied hero?

While I would tend to doubt that explanation, any lingering doubt is expelled by Hightower's presence. He is not a confidant of Rhaegar. He would not put the prophecy above his duty as KG -- and the KG say that they swore a vow. The KG would not make such a big deal out of the fact that they swore a vow if they were disregarding their main vow -- to protect the king.

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Hightower is the commander, but he is under Rheagar when Aerys is not around.

Whatever order Rhaegar gave, certainly overruled Hightower's.

After he died, his unfulfilled order did not become invalid (suppose KG is still loyal). 

 

In military, obey is the most important thing, above anything else. If you have different opinion, you can report to the commander and try to persuade him, but unless the commander changes his mind, the less commander had to follow his order, even it is completely wrong. If the less commander did something different which was proved to be good and successful, still he will be punished or killed for his disobedience. Otherwise who will respect the order of the commander in the future? everybody can say "I have a better idea! let us do it!".  

Solders are not suppose to be robots. they are supposed to give feedback and suggestions to the general and do anything they want within their order (for example, KG was ordered to guard TOJ, it is up to them to decide how they guard it) 

This is how the military works. 

No it is not. As you note, Rhaegar is dead. A war general does NOT continue to keep old outdated order from a dead superior. That is NOT how the military works. They are not robots. They are expected to use judgment. Yes, they follow orders -- that is central to being a soldier. But in the battlefield, the senior person on site must have leeway to address changed circumstances.

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They are indeed suppose to be robots, no judgement, no intervention, no question, no curiosity, just obey. 

This is actually the rule in military troop in any time.

Obey, even it is a wrong order or a suicide order.  

 

Under normal circumstances, the KG would obey. However this was an exceptional situation and expecting the KG to simply follow the orders of a now dead prince without giving any thought to the changing circumstances is just plain wrong.

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Great Councils don't have special rights. They can't even make law. They are just a big advisory body to the king. Two times they gave their view on the succession of a particular king (Jaehaerys I; MAekar I) and another time they appointed three regents by lot under the auspices of the Grand Maester Munkun (who served as last regent and Hand).

 

UL's scenario works only if you write the following narrative:

 

1. The fever dream conversation is an accurate account of what happened at the tower (dismissed by George himself in an SSM).

 

2. The Kingsguard needed a Lyanna's son to be 'the true king' or a strong claimant to the throne to continue following their orders - presumably to protect Lyanna at all costs (very unlikely considering that they helped kill Aerys and Rhaegar both by omission by remaining with Lyanna).

 

3. That there was a highly selective (omission of Viserys as new heir) but still very thorough information system which allowed the Kingsguard to receive exactly the amount of knowledge UL needs them to have at a particular point. A highly unlikely (but convenient) scenario for him. I always wonder why they super source didn't also tell that Ned Stark was coming. You know, so that they could have left in time.

 

4. It being a 'standard procedure' that the Kingsguard always ensure the king is protected by one of their own. When I last looked, Barristan Selmy did not rush into the Dothraki Sea to find and protect Daenerys Targaryen who most certainly would have been in dire need of Kingsguard protection. He did nothing of this sort. Just as the knights of the tower perhaps thought that the khalasar searching for Dany might be able to find and protect her better than Selmy? Just as Hightower, Dayne, and Whent may have thought Rhaegar's order (or the vow they had sworn specifically to him) may have taken precedence in that scenario, and that Viserys III was in good hands in the care of the garrison of Dragonstone?

 

5. That Hightower actually would have felt the need to send one of the others to Dragonstone had he known the true king, Viserys III, was there. There is no textual evidence for this, and it is a highly problematic concept beginning with the question where the hell this guy should have caught a ship to get there, and how good his chances were to actual reach Dragonstone and not be ratted out to Robert. It would also contradict the command given to them by Rhaegar which they apparently were willing to obey at least until his death. Why abandon Lyanna now? And who to send? Had Hightower enough authority over the other two to send one of them if they felt more bound to Rhaegar's blood than Aerys'? Not to mention that the time line actually allows them to have reached such a decision shortly before Ned arrived - which would mean that the whole scenario collapses because things as they are cannot be used to 'prove' anything.

 

6. The whole fight of Kingsguard vs. Ned's guys means that the knights thought 'their king' was 'in danger' from his own uncle. If they felt free to make decisions themselves about what they should and should not do one assumes they would have assessed the situation first and tried to reach an agreement with Ned (which they did not, if you take the fever dream at face value). This actually means they were willing to kill the uncle of their king, and the brother of the woman they most certainly had sworn/been commanded to protect - a rather unlikely scenario. UL is even willing to assume that they would overrule Lyanna's own desires in all this, willing to paint her either as a small girl not capable or allowed of commanding KG despite the fact that she was a woman grown and the Princess Dowager and mother to 'their king' at this point (very unlikely if you remember how Lyanna spoke to the squires at Harrenhal), or to assume that she somehow herself thought that Ned was a danger to her and her son and had thus, presumably, be stopped or killed.

If they were obeying Rhaegar there they might have not have as much flexibility as they would have liked, especially if Rhaegar had commanded them to guard Lyanna/the tower explicitly against Ned. The same goes for them having a death wish. The idea that Ned's guys could actually have defeated those guys if they meant serious business makes little sense. One assume that the Kingsguard were well-rested and fresh, whereas Ned's men would have traveled quite some time that day and the days before that. Ned is a joke as a swordsman in comparison to any of the knights, as is Howland Reed. Somehow I doubt the other five men were the best swordsmen the North could offer - and even if they were, it would have been five vs. three, and one of them would have fought with Dawn (which means that both the swords and armor of Arthur's enemies would effectively have been a joke).

 

I have trouble with pretty much all of that, but my main concern really is that this is all unnecessary for the whole theory. Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son, and he may become king, but he wasn't the rightful king at that time, so the knights would just posthumously look foolish if they had died 'defending' him. Even more so, come to think of it, since they should have known that Ned would never harm his nephew. But even so, dying for the 'non-king' just makes you look stupid. We can explain why they were there and protecting Lyanna and her son without going to such great lengths.

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No it is not. As you note, Rhaegar is dead. A war general does NOT continue to keep old outdated order from a dead superior. That is NOT how the military works. They are not robots. They are expected to use judgment. Yes, they follow orders -- that is central to being a soldier. But in the battlefield, the senior person on site must have leeway to address changed circumstances.

 

The order is not outdated and invalid, it is unfulfilled and still valid due to Lyanna is still alive at that time.

After they are done with "guarding Lyanna" (she died or she could travel), then it is up to them to decide the next move, for example, take her and baby and run to DS or Essos or Starfall. 

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LV--

 

There is so much wrong with this analysis, I wish I had the time to explain why each and every point can be countered. I will give a small taste of my analysis, however, given time constraints. I don't assume the dream is literal -- but I believe at a minimum, the words from Ned and the KG must be consistent with Ned's understanding of the facts, including facts he learned from Lyanna after the battle. So it does not matter if it really happened -- only that Ned considers it to be a valid recreation of a conversation that could have happened given that actual facts as he knows them to be. And the analysis works even if they are learning the information from Ned for the first time. The key is when the say that they made a vow and that going to DS to be with V would be fleeing. They would only say that (or Ned would only think of them saying that) if they do no consider (or at least Ned believes they did not consider) V to be King. They do not say that they have no way to get to DS, they say it would be fleeing. And by the way, how exactly was Selmy supposed to find Dany? The KG are not expected to be miracle workers -- able to find a missing ruler no matter where in the world he or she disappears to. The KG are told that V is on DS, and they say that Darry, a non-KG can be there, but for a KG to go would be fleeing.

 

As to negotiating with Ned, that is not going to happen. Ned just led the rebels. No way that the KG can trust Ned. Under your scenario, it makes even less sense that they did not negotiate with Ned. Why would Ned be a threat to Lyanna? Ned is a threat to Jon if he is the true Targ heir and Ned is loyal to Robert. But under what circumstance is Ned a threat to Lyanna or a bastard Jon? I had forgotten that argument, but that is another good reason why I think they had to think they were guarding the rightful Targ King. Under no other circumstance is Ned really a realistic threat.

 

p-e--Once Rhaegar, Aegon and Aerys are dead, Viserys on DS and the other KG out of the picture, I think the orders can be considered outdated. For example, if a battlefield general is trying to take an enemy position under orders to do so, and he cannot get in contact with any superior officer, and he finds out that the enemy is about to overrun the home base but if he goes there he might be able to stop the enemy charge, a good battlefield general will abandon the orders to take the enemy position and fall back and protect his men trying to save the home base. The KG are sort of like that general.

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p-e--Once Rhaegar, Aegon and Aerys are dead, Viserys on DS and the other KG out of the picture, I think the orders can be considered outdated. For example, if a battlefield general is trying to take an enemy position under orders to do so, and he cannot get in contact with any superior officer, and he finds out that the enemy is about to overrun the home base but if he goes there he might be able to stop the enemy charge, a good battlefield general will abandon the orders to take the enemy position and fall back and protect his men trying to save the home base. The KG are sort of like that general.

 

In your case, this general did disobey his order and he would be punished (if he was found by somebody with a higher rank).

What if the attack on home base is indeed a disguise which his own leader secretly planned for other purpose?

What if the general was sent to take that position to distract the attention?

What if the commander indeed wanted to give up the home base for some other reason?

All the plans would be ruined due to his "goodness" and future general will use him as a example to disobey more orders.

 

Coming back to Rhaegar, since he died pretty quickly, this order is pretty much his last will or death wish. 

Kind of like the "promise me" of Lyanna to Ned, but a military order.

KG would not abandon this order even they knew where viserys is, and who can say they are not planning to take baby Jon and Lyanna (alive) to join them on DS and then protect the whole royal family?

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In your case, this general did disobey his order and he would be punished (if he was found by somebody with a higher rank).

What if the attack on home base is indeed a disguise which his own leader secretly planned for other purpose?

What if the general was sent to take that position to distract the attention?

What if the commander indeed wanted to give up the home base for some other reason?

All the plans would be ruined due to his "goodness" and future general will use him as a example to disobey more orders. 

I think you need to study military history a little more. Those sort of decisions, when communication with a superior is impossible, is EXACTLY what a battlefield commander is expected to do. They are not robots -- but we are getting off topic.

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I think you need to study military history a little more. Those sort of decisions, when communication with a superior is impossible, is EXACTLY what a battlefield commander is expected to do. They are not robots -- but we are getting off topic.

 

What you are describing is something different. 

An army was sent out by the commander to fulfill some order with some original plan. If they were cut off, the leader would have full authority to decide what to do and how to do for his group, including adjusting the original plan. But, not to abandon or contradict his unfulfilled order (if he is still loyal and faithful). 

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What you are describing is something different. 

An army was sent out by the commander to fulfill some order with some original plan. If they were cut off, the leader would have full authority to decide what to do and how to do for his group, including adjusting the original plan. But, not to abandon or contradict his unfulfilled order (if he is still loyal and faithful). 

Ok, let me give another example. The secret service is supposed to protect the president. Assume that a particular agent has been ordered to carry out some mission away from the president. But then he (or she) finds out that the president has been rendered unconscious and the service agents guarding the president have been killed. No other superior can be contacted. Does the agent abandon the assigned mission and rush to protect the president or continue to follow orders? I think the answer is obvious -- the agent would not be expected to continue the original mission no matter how important or direct the orders -- it is not as important as getting to the president. And no one would think that agent to have violated the obligation to follow orders.

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