Jump to content
ErasmusF

What is Jon Snow's real name?

Recommended Posts

I don't think his last name is Targaryen because I have a hard time believing he's legitimate. Not saying it isn't true, just that I don't buy it. I also think his name is just Jon, because I think Rhaegar and Lyanna probably just decided upon a normal name for him to not attract attention to him and he can pose as Ned's bastard. I don't see why Jon wouldn't be his real name. Also, are bastard's named after the region they are born in or where their parents come from, because I guess this would affect what his last name is (if he is a bastard). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon is the real Aegon the 6th (or 7th) if you count his elder infant half-brother who had his brains smashed by the Mountain.

Well actually his elder half-brother is still alive across the narrow sea... that wasn't the real aegon who got his brains smashed by the Mountain. So the 7th :)

 

Also, chances are he is not a bastard because Rhaegar would have most definitely acknowledged him, in a similar way that Roose acknowledged Ramsay. But at an earlier age!

Edited by House_Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But is Jons last name really Snow. Thought about it recently. If he is R+L = J, then he is born in Dorne, so technically, he is a Sand. 

 

Sorry to shout, but READ THE FREAKING THREAD.

 

Several times already have people pointed out that bastards are named for the region in which they are RAISED, not where they are born.

 

Gawwd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's Jonyon.

Sorry to shout, but READ THE FREAKING THREAD.
 
Several times already have people pointed out that bastards are named for the region in which they are RAISED, not where they are born.
 
Gawwd.


:lmao:

It's complicated. Technically, the father would raise him/her in his own lands or region, right? So, the kid would take the name after those. Edric is acknowledged and raised in the Stormlands, so he's Storm. Mya is not acknowledged but everybody knows who is her father, so unlike other bastards, she's given a name: Stone. Had Robert sent Edric to Ned to raise, he'd still be Storm? I suppose.

But yes, it's not after the place they are born. It's after the father.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The etymology of the name "John" or "Jon", relates very closely to the idea of King, or Lord.  The original Hebrew name Johannan (Jonathan) is composed of two parts, the first part Joh is a truncated form of YHWH/YHVH, the incomplete name of God representing each of the four elements, and adding the fifth element of spirit, or the hebrew mother letter Shin (the letter itself shaped as a flame symbolizing spiritual fire), you complete the name, transmuting it into something material and comprehendible by humans (humans symbolized by the number 5) - YHSHVH, or Jehovah (it makes a lil less sense because we are trying to turn hebrew sounds into english here).   The second part of Johannan (hanan) means gracious.  

 

Sooo by GRRM using the name Jon, to me he is indicating that he is not only a King or Lord, but once the Fire (shin) is added to the Snow, likely during his resurrection, or perhaps just the reveal that he is not only Snow but part fire/targ, he will become something of a human-god (azor azai). Maybe unlikely GRRM thought so in depth about the hebrew and particularly the addition of fire completing the name of God, but its possible.  

 

Similarly, Jon Connington = Jon Con, a con and a false king - at least representing the false king in that he is his guardian.

 

I am actually very in a discussion as to why GRRM has chosen certain names for certain places and characters, and if anybody could point me to a thread where people provide their own insight into this I would be most appreciative (=

 

 

Anyone??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps his name was Arthur, after Rhaegar's BFF.  And nicely, in other works, Arthur is the son of Uther Pendragon, a king who saw a prophetic dragon shaped comet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(R+L=J Spoilers below, I suppose)

 

 

 

So it occurs to me that if R+L=J is true, then Jon Snow isn't a real name. Posting this under WoW because I am 95% sure we will get the reveal in WoW whether Jon (if that's his real name!) is dead or alive. 

 

Of course, the "Snow" part is wrong, since he was most likely born in Dorne anyway. 

 

I am also thinking "Jon" isn't real. Jon isn't a typical Stark or Targaryan name. It's almost a tip of the hat by GRRM that Ned didn't pick a typical Stark name... Torrhen, Cregan, Beron, Ed, or Artos being traditional Stark names not taken or later assigned to another child. If he were truly Ned's son, he would not have picked a generic name - Jon Snow = John Doe.

 

More than likely, Rhaegar and Lyanna picked a Targaryan name. Options not already assigned to his other kids or siblings... Aenar, Aemon, Maegor, Baelor, Jaehaerys, Daeron, Maekar. Aenys, Aerys. Cooler if he names him after a dragon, like Balerion or Vhagar. Unlikley that he picked a name of one of the great bastards, Aegor or Daemon. Those are all in order of likelihood, in my eyes.     

 

Maybe not, and Rhaegar picked a traditional Stark name, in which case my money is on Torrhen who had the wisdom to bend the knee rather than see the North burn. This seems to be the case with Brynden Rivers, but that might have had more to do with his father's growing disinterest in naming his bastards. I think this only happens if the marriage was on the Isle of Faces and Jon is a legitimate Targ. Torrhen Targaryan has an alliterative ring to it.

 

So last name possibilities, in order of likelihood, IMO: Targaryan, Sand (born), Rivers (conceived), Snow (mom).

 

My best guess at Jon Snow's true name is:

Aenar Targaryan - named for the founder of the house, since he is TPTWP (I think Rhaegar realized his error in naming Aegon that) and he is hoped to refound House Targaryan.

Torrhen Targaryan - Ice and Fire

Aemon Targaryan - I just find it funny that two people with the same name would talk and not even know it. 

 

 

Name your top 3.  

actually there was a king in the north named jon stark he was king before the outbreak of the war of conquest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cleverly worded by George. So the name Jon was given to him by Ned. That doesn't tell us the name that was given to him by Lyanna and Rhaegar. My sneaky suspicion has always been Aemon Targaryan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe Ned and Ashara named him Arthur after his uncle..........so he's actually Arthur Stark, The Stark of The Morning....

 

 

 

/me encapsulates self in protective posture of tinfoil, thereby impervious from all flaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The dream of re-creating the Conqueror and his sisters failed when Lyanna gave birth to a boy, so I doubt Viserys is an option.In Jon's POV he remembered fighting with Robb and pretending to be the Dragonknight or the Young Dragon.I think it was a clue.Or he could have the name of the man who did the Pact of Ice and Fire.So I believe he is:

  1. Aemon Stark
  2. Daeron Stark
  3. Cregan Stark

Robb's will has legitimized him, so he is a Stark now.Even if Rhaegar married Lyanna it cannot be proved.Only if Jon becomes a dragonrider he can claim the Targaryen name (and even not then).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could be wrong but didn't Aegon the unlikely name his first born son Duncan after his friend and former mentor Ser Duncan the tall? It seems traditional family names are important but there can be exceptions made.I think Ned named him Jon after Jon arryn .I don't imagine he ever wanted Jon to persue his birthright

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could be wrong but didn't Aegon the unlikely name his first born son Duncan after his friend and former mentor Ser Duncan the tall? It seems traditional family names are important but there can be exceptions made.I think Ned named him Jon after Jon arryn .I don't imagine he ever wanted Jon to persue his birthright

Yes, Aegon V named his eldest son Duncan (known as the Prince of Dragonflies).  I always saw Ned's naming of Jon as him naming his surrogate son after his surrogate father

While Rhaegar was clearly trying to re-create the conquering Targaryens (with Rhaenys and Aegon) and needed a third head for his 'dragon'.  He may have discussed naming a daughter Visenya as a result, but there is no guarantee of this (nor of Rhaegar leaving Lyanna with male and female names depending on the gender of their child).  That said, I do like the idea of Aemon. Jon remembers playing at fighting with Robb and shouting that he was Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, and when he leaves Castle Black with the intention of deserting, he thinks that he was 'no Aemon Targaryen'. I think it would be ironic if Jon then discovered that Rhaegar had ever thought of naming him thus. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An important point: Consider the names of Rhaegar's other two children - Aegon and Rhaenys. The same names as two of the original Targaryen triumvirate that conquered the realm in the first place.

Rhaegar wanted a third child... he wanted a second *daughter* to complete the re-creation of the initial triumivrate. He wanted a Visenya - although of the original three, Visenya was the elder sister and Rhaenys the younger.

If Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, then he wasn't part of Rhaegar's plan. Most likely Rhaegar died not knowing whether his child would be a son or a daughter - and, convinced that his existing son Aegon was "the prince who was promised", was probably equally convinced that his third child, to be born while he was away fighting Robert at the Trident, would be a daughter. He never knew that, instead, he had a second son.

And the name of Jon was given to him by Ned Stark, after Jon Arryn.

And he is a bastard, because no marriage between his parents was legally recognised, whether a ceremony of sorts took place and whether vows were spoken, or not. No Targaryen had been bigamous since Maegor the Cruel, who was hardly regarded as an example to follow: in fact, whenever Targaryen princes had attempt to revive the practice of bigamy, they were overruled, usually by their parents. There therefore was, and is, no "bigamy is legal for Targaryens" law: and in any case the entire Robert's Rebellion established, among other things, the principle that the King was NOT above the law (because if he is, then it is entirely legitimate for Aerys to have executed people without trial or conviction.) Therefore Rhaegar and Lyanna cannot be recognised as having been married: therefore Jon is still a bastard, no matter whether his parents are "Rhaegar + Lyanna" or "Ned Stark + any woman that is not Catelyn". Or indeed "Robert + Lyanna", who were obviously not married yet.

Jon therefore is entitled to a bastard surname if he earns no surname of his own: and while it might have been "Waters" for a child born to the Prince who lived in the Crownlands, or indeed "Sand" for a child born geographically in Dorne, he is equally entitled to the surname of "Snow" for having been born TO a Northern mother and brought up in the North. He could technically have *any* of those names: there being no absolute law on the matter, only custom (bastard-naming being a custom rather than a law). Robert Baratheon's bastards, such as are known, seem to have generally taken the surname of either their mother, or the region they grew up in, it is not clear which: Edric Storm, Mya Stone, and Gendry would be a Waters. Aegon IV's Great Bastards took the bastard surnames of the region their mothers were originally from: both Aegor Bittersteel and Brynden Bloodraven, born to a Bracken and a Blackwood of the Riverlands, took the surname of Rivers although both were born in King's Landing: and Daemon Blackfyre, before being presented with the sword that gave him a nickname that became a surname, was born as Daemon Waters because he was a bastard of the Crownlands (of one of the three Targaryen sisters of the Maidenvault): therefore there is a perfectly good precedent for a child taking a bastard surname belonging to his mother's nationality... although he also has the name of Snow because he is officially supposed to be Ned Stark's own bastard, and nobody questions that he would be entitled to that surname through Ned Stark even if his mother were a Dayne of Dorne (which could give him a surname of Sand), the precedent also exists for bastards to take the surname of their father's region.

Therefore Jon Snow is Jon's correct name, until Robb Stark's will is found, legally adopting him into the Stark family as an adopted brother: whereupon, if the will is not contested, he will be entitled to the name of Jon Stark, no matter whether Rickon lives or not, and no matter whether the North (or indeed Jon himself) considers a younger trueborn brother to rank ahead of an older adopted brother if Rickon lives. Being not legitimate, and with no official written public statement adopting him into the Targaryen family, Jon is not entitled to the surname of Targaryen. And without Robb's authorisation, he is not entitled to the name of Stark.

Also: there WAS a Jon Stark before: Jon Stark was the name of the builder of the original Wolf's Den on the White Knife river, the stronghold around which the city of White Harbor was built, and Jon Stark has a statue in the crypts of Winterfell. He is named in AGoT chapter 66, through Bran's viewpoint: as is his successor, Rickard, who followed him to the throne as King of Winter and annexed the Neck.

Edited by JLE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×