"All Crows Are Liars" - Old Nan

[aryagonnakill#2]

I am a believer in the theory that BR called out to Euron.

 

Euron tells Victarion that when he was young he dreamed he could fly, but when he awoke the maesters told him he could not.  Then he put a crow on his personal sigil.

 

I don't however think Euron failed to fly, I think he succeeded, but that BR realized who he was dealing with and did not want to train him.  That is why Euron still has his mind in tact.  Hodor on the other hand I believe could not fly, and is why is mind was destroyed. Kind of like an inception thing.

[WolfgangII]

I am a believer in the theory that BR called out to Euron.

 

Euron tells Victarion that when he was young he dreamed he could fly, but when he awoke the maesters told him he could not.  Then he put a crow on his personal sigil.

 

I don't however think Euron failed to fly, I think he succeeded, but that BR realized who he was dealing with and did not want to train him.  That is why Euron still has his mind in tact.  Hodor on the other hand I believe could not fly, and is why is mind was destroyed. Kind of like an inception thing.

 

You lost me. Did you think Hodor knew Bloodraven? And that his mental disabilite was caused by him?

[mediterraneo]

Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed Crow.  It's an established fact.  But as yet we have nothing in the text to tie Old Nan to Bloodraven.

 

I beg to differ.

 

The Three Eyed Crow could still be Bran's future self or the entity that brought Bloodraven and Bran to that path, for his own reasons.
The Heretics drew parallels betwin the Three Eyed Crow and the Morrigan, it could very well be the deeper part of the "Old Gods" myth, with the Old Gods in general being the greenseers in time, it could be lots of things.

 

Not to say that the Bloodraven is the Three Eyed Crow is improbable. It is actually quite probable in my opinion.

It is just not an established fact.

[Avlonnic]

Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed Crow.  It's an established fact.  But as yet we have nothing in the text to tie Old Nan to Bloodraven.

 

Euron's sigil is a first eye.  To be a third eye he would need two more up there with it.  

 

In the past, Bloodraven sought out Euron as a possible apprentice.  Euron failed.  He was one of the dreamers impaled on the ice spikes.  That's what happened to his eye.  He was rejected from the weirnet training program for a reason.  Now he's gone evil.

 

It's been suggested as well that Hodor might have been somewhat normal (if dim in the wits department) and that he too fell during a greendream and it destroyed his mind.  Could be that Old Nan thinks crows in dreams lie because her great-grandson never did fly like the crow said he might be able to.

 

     This is intriguing.  I have always found it unsettling to think that BR recruited Euron to be part of the weirnet.  Can you imagine Euron with that kind of potential?  But, if Euron's eye is an indicator, does that hint at others in the story?  I am thinking of Crowfood Umber; also, Old Nan recounts the story about a boy who climbed the tower, was struck by lightning, and had crows pecking his eyes when he fell. 

 

    As for Hodor's being 'part giant', I considered the possibility that an Umber infused Umber/'giant' characteristics into Old Nan's bloodline - perhaps by practicing the outlawed 'right of First Night' upon an unwilling vassal.  I had not thought of him as a potential greenseer.

[ElizabethB.]

 
The Three Eyed Crow.... or the entity that brought Bloodraven and Bran to that path, for his own reasons..

I assumed that the TTEC is a sort of a spiritual mail service dude.

[Wolf of the Steppes]

I'm sorry, the whole Hodor as a potential greenseer is, in my opinion, absolutely ludicrous.  Is there even a hint of suggestion that this could be possible?  

[Blazfemur]

I'm sorry, the whole Hodor as a potential greenseer is, in my opinion, absolutely ludicrous.  Is there even a hint of suggestion that this could be possible?  

 

while i agree with you on this, i want to make it clear i do believe something, occurred, to make Hodor his present state. In my very first readthrough (of game of thrones, years ago), i even crackpotted he was the baby who;s heasd was rushed into the wall by gregor. obviously thats not true int he slightest, but i still remain open to something, happened, to do that damage to him.

 

does bran hear, "Hodor," while he's warging him? it's never explained, i think it was just stated he heard hodor struggling to maintain control

[Lady Char]

It is related to a sad love affair with a crow. Old Nan was a wildling spearwife at the time of Raymun and she fell in love with a crow (Jon-Ygritte style). The crow left her pregnant and she found herself as a captive/wetnurse at Winterfell just like Osha. Through the Old Nan Hodor has giant blood.

 

I like to toy with the idea that Old Nan could be Shiera Seastar, giving her a tie to Bloodraven. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

 
I like to toy with the idea that Old Nan could be Shiera Seastar, giving her a tie to Bloodraven. 

Nope. Shiera is Quaithe.

[Lady Char]

Nope. Shiera is Quaithe.

 

She could be. I see Shiera everywhere I look. There are theories she could be Mel as well. In terms of the OP's quote, I either think is the link between Nan and Bloodraven, or I think its a quote that can be overlooked. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

 
She could be. I see Shiera everywhere I look. There are theories she could be Mel as well. In terms of the OP's quote, I either think is the link between Nan and Bloodraven, or I think its a quote that can be overlooked. 

Nope. Melisandre is Shiera and Bloodraven's daughter.

[Nordahl iceskin]

Euron is Daario, seastar is everone, high sparrow is Howland reed, coldhands is Benjen. If all of this is true that would be quite unimaginative, also melisandre being someone else doesn't change her position or motives, so it serves no story purpose, but could the bloodraven have manipulated all of them to some dregree? sure why not.

[SevasTra82]

Euron is Daario, seastar is everone, high sparrow is Howland reed, coldhands is Benjen. If all of this is true that would be quite unimaginative, also melisandre being someone else doesn't change her position or motives, so it serves no story purpose, but could the bloodraven have manipulated all of them to some dregree? sure why not.

 

This is what happens when people have too much time to think between books.  They start to connect dots that have no business being connected.  They start imagining crackpot theories, and refuse to believe the obvious answers.

 

What are people going to talk about once these books are done?  I have a feeling there will be a lot of disapointed fans out there because their favorite crackpot theory turned out to be just that....a figment of their imagination.

[Blazfemur]

Nope. Melisandre is Shiera and Bloodraven's daughter.

 

still a theory, though im well aware, and want this to be the case. it would be very interesting, and im hoping we get a mel pov that perhaps goes deeper into how she was sold into slavery, who bought her (id assume, the red church, which then brainwashed her)

 

do you subscribe to quaithe=shiera?

[Nordahl iceskin]

 

still a theory, though im well aware, and want this to be the case. it would be very interesting, and im hoping we get a mel pov that perhaps goes deeper into how she was sold into slavery, who bought her (id assume, the red church, which then brainwashed her)

 

do you subscribe to quaithe=shiera?

GRRM has said that he is not going to add more POV characters (can't find a link), and also that he will be reducing the number in TWoW. Quaithe being some hidden character is compelling, but her identity being kept secret seems to be in her best interest. Even if she is Shiera Seastar, or Ashara Dayne or future Dany, I doubt we will be given sufficient evidence to ever declare with certainty whom she really is.

[Lost Melnibonean]

 
still a theory, though im well aware, and want this to be the case. it would be very interesting, and im hoping we get a mel pov that perhaps goes deeper into how she was sold into slavery, who bought her (id assume, the red church, which then brainwashed her)
 
do you subscribe to quaithe=shiera?

Yes, I do.

[Lady Sharya]

Nope. Shiera is Quaithe.

And I think Nan could be Walder Frey's sister that was being wed at Whitehall. She'd be close to Aemon's age.

[Blazfemur]

GRRM has said that he is not going to add more POV characters (can't find a link)

 while correct, melisandre had a pov. she wouldnt be new

 

 

Yes, I do.

 

there's certainly nothing against it, quaithe as it is is enigmatous

[Nordahl iceskin]

 while correct, melisandre had a pov. she wouldnt be new

Good point.

 

Has anyone ever asked whether Quaithe is Dany's mother? can't remember if I read about that.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Dafuq?!?

Well bits of that are wild speculation, but Euron does mention a crow (or raven, not sure which) in a dream telling him he could fly.  That's a pretty big sign pointing to Bloodraven.