How can Jaime justify his kingslaying?

[Hodor's Speechwriter]

INCBlackbird Yes but it is still preferable for you to avoid the oathbreaking as far as possible, no? I am not saying that Jaime shouldn't have stopped Aerys but it is Always best to keep your wovs as intact as possible.

Exactly.

[purple-eyes]

I wish Jiame can sit on the IT for a while in the next two books. 

And Brienne is the young and "beautiful" queen to take off everything from Cersei: her title, her Jiame, her confidence in her beauty. 

Jiame put thousands of lives above his personal good, and I think it is totally correct. 

And also he did not want to die himself or kill his father. 

His behavior is totally justified in my opinion. 

[ConfusedCounselor]

Knights other than the KG can defend the king, and do so regularly (e.g. when the KG have their meetings in the White Sword Tower).

 

I remember this as well. However, I also remember only the KG being allowed to bear weapons in the kings presence, which seems contradictory. Or was that only Arys...

 

Anyway, considering the circumstances, Jaime's justification for killing the king would probably be reasonable to most. The KG vows seem to take precedence over any other in actual practice as well as in regard, especially the innocents/weak part of the general knights vows, which is generally seen as more of a guideline among a lot of the nobility. However, half a million innocents/weak would seem excessive to anyone, especially if said king would not survive either.

 

Quite a few would still want him to take the black, however.  

[Martin Lasarte]

I don't understand why Robert didn't just "relieve" him of his vows. He "punishes" Jaime simbollically by kicking him out of the Kingsguard, and at the same time he gives Tywin back his heir. That would have been as big a reward to the Lannisters as Robert's marriage to Cersei.

[JaegrM]

I never understood why people think Jaime detaining Aerys is better. 
Jaime would still for all intents and purposes be the cause of his death.

It's like if Aerys claimed he didn't kill the Starks, the fire did.

[Caspoi]

Martin Lasarte@ Also it does not seem like a good idea to have the "kingslayer" as your bodyguard. The reason why he didn't do this is probably just that there was no presednce until Joffrey kicked out Barristan (sometimes Joffrey is really stupid).

[Lady Sharya]

I never understood why people think Jaime detaining Aerys is better. 
Jaime would still for all intents and purposes be the cause of his death.
It's like if Aerys claimed he didn't kill the Starks, the fire did.

There is a bit of a difference between throwing him in a cell and letting Robert take what action he may, and slashing his throat from behind while he trusts to turn his back on you. Small difference I realize as they are both oathbreaking, but no point in being underhanded about the deed and less honorable than necessary.;)

[lancerman]

So Aery's can have live long enough to have a trial and choose Jamie as his champion to either win his freedom or die defending him.

[JaegrM]

There is a bit of a difference between throwing him in a cell and letting Robert take what action he may, and slashing his throat from behind while he trusts to turn his back on you. Small difference I realize as they are both oathbreaking, but no point in being underhanded about the deed and less honorable than necessary. ;)

Seeing as how the reports of Joffrey's death were reported so accurately, with all of those witnesses present, I really doubt Jaime politely taking Aerys into custody with no witnesses would have spared him the kingslayer moniker. 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I don't understand why Robert didn't just "relieve" him of his vows. He "punishes" Jaime simbollically by kicking him out of the Kingsguard, and at the same time he gives Tywin back his heir. That would have been as big a reward to the Lannisters as Robert's marriage to Cersei.

 

'Cause Robert's a moron?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

There is a bit of a difference between throwing him in a cell and letting Robert take what action he may, and slashing his throat from behind while he trusts to turn his back on you. Small difference I realize as they are both oathbreaking, but no point in being underhanded about the deed and less honorable than necessary. ;)

 

 

How is he supposed to throw him in a cell? He is one man and the Red Keep would have had other guards and Targ loyalists. You would have a point if Jaime killed him after the Palace had been captured but it was before and Aerys was trying to burn the city down.

[Orphalesion]

I don't understand why Robert didn't just "relieve" him of his vows. He "punishes" Jaime simbollically by kicking him out of the Kingsguard, and at the same time he gives Tywin back his heir. That would have been as big a reward to the Lannisters as Robert's marriage to Cersei.

 

Because Cersei would have never stopped bitching at him about it?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

More importantly why the fuck did he take credit.
*Ned rolls up to a dead Aerys and a deserted throne room*
Jamie shows up
Jamie:Shit...someone killed the king while I was off to kill my father as Aerys ordered.Darn.

 

I think because Martin needed to point out the difference between Jaime and the rest of his family: he never makes excuses for the things he does. Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion make a lot of justifications in their heads in order to do things that are morally ambiguous. Jaime is different: "yes, I fucked my sister and that's I tried to kill your son, lady Stark". He could have explained the whole thing to Ned, but as he realised, even if they had seen Aerys with the wildfire in one hand and a match in the other, they would have condemned him for what he did.

 

why is it important that he swore to protect him? is a vow more important than doing the right thing?

 

Thank you for outline the main theme of ASOIAF. Some people seem to have forgotten :lol:

 

Jaime feels guilty for what he did. He has dreamed of the KG condemning for what he did. I think he might find redemption and forgive himself if/when he discover they were also plotting against the King, with the difference that they weren't in a situation in which they had to kill them for saving thousands.

[Lion of the West]

 

 

How is he supposed to throw him in a cell? He is one man and the Red Keep would have had other guards and Targ loyalists. You would have a point if Jaime killed him after the Palace had been captured but it was before and Aerys was trying to burn the city down.

 

Exactly!

 

Jaime was lucky it was the Crakehalls and Westerlings who came through that door as it might just as well have been Targaryen loyalists coming to get the king before they attempted a breakout to reach the harbor and take a ship, flee up into Crackclaw Point or some other plan of escape.

[Lady Sharya]

So Aery's can have live long enough to have a trial and choose Jamie as his champion to either win his freedom or die defending him.

  
Jaime can simply refuse the request. If Robert is on the throne, Jaime is no longer obligated to him.

Seeing as how the reports of Joffrey's death were reported so accurately, with all of those witnesses present, I really doubt Jaime politely taking Aerys into custody with no witnesses would have spared him the kingslayer moniker.

The cause of death was accurate, the guilty party wasn't. Jaime could hardly be seen as kingslayer with a public execution.

It would have saved him the disappointment of loosing his honor in the eyes of the kingdom.

[Lady Sharya]

Exactly!
 
Jaime was lucky it was the Crakehalls and Westerlings who came through that door as it might just as well have been Targaryen loyalists coming to get the king before they attempted a breakout to reach the harbor and take a ship, flee up into Crackclaw Point or some other plan of escape.

You don't think Jaime could have gotten him into a private chamber under the presence of safety, and simply kept him there until the rebels came beating down the door? You give Jaime far too little credit.;)

[sweetsunray]

You can't blame anyone who didn't even know why he did it not to think ill of him. But I'd say the circumstances of the case certainly are mitigating, certainly to our contemporary morals. Of course he could have killed all the pyromancers and prevent Aerys' order from being carried out, and he did kill some. 

 

But even if he had explained his deed, I would say this was a case where he could not keep his white cloak anymore. Nor do I think Tywin should have been rewarded with Jaime as heir, after butchering Elia and her 2 children, even though that's not Jaime's fault.

 

The Black was an option... Hell Allister and a few others of KL were forced to take the Black, and all they had done was defend the city. What is most glaring is that even then Robert was a weak man when it came to justice, and just take the easy way - punish the easy targets noone will complain about, but keep a man as bodyguard who has shown to do the opposite without one explanation. Duh!

[Balerion the kitten]

why is it important that he swore to protect him? is a vow more important than doing the right thing?

Well, when a vow doesn't have to be broken yes.
Jaime didn't have to kill Aerys. He had to kill the pyromancer, but afterwards he didn't need to kill Aerys. Aerys had no one else at that point to command.
As Jaime said, sometimes protecting the king involves protecting him from himself. Aerys needed protecting from himself, and Jaime could have done that without killing him.

[SweetPea]

You don't think Jaime could have gotten him into a private chamber under the presence of safety, and simply kept him there until the rebels came beating down the door? You give Jaime far too little credit. ;)

You forget the circumstances. When your mad king tells you to kill your father and bring him his head, then threatens to burn the city down, you won't just knock him out and calmly watch him in a room until the rebels come. Jaime had to act quickly, he was probably horrified and angry because of Aerys's request so he did what his instincts told him - killed the crazy psycho. I don't think many of us would have done better than him in the heat of the moment.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

 

I think because Martin needed to point out the difference between Jaime and the rest of his family: he never makes excuses for the things he does. Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion make a lot of justifications in their heads in order to do things that are morally ambiguous. Jaime is different: "yes, I fucked my sister and that's I tried to kill your son, lady Stark". He could have explained the whole thing to Ned, but as he realised, even if they had seen Aerys with the wildfire in one hand and a match in the other, they would have condemned him for what he did.

 

No, I don't think that was it. Young Jaime, bless his soul, wasn't cursed with overabundance of brains. He didn't realize anything, he was being guided by foolish pride. "What right has a wolf to judge a lion?". Of course Jaime's "I don't care what they think of me" and "they think ill of me, oh, woe!" seems just a little inconsistent.

 

And yeah, the reveal of the wildfire plot made a difference at least to me and made me reevaluate the Kingslayer's kingslaying. I see no reason to assume that it would make no difference to people in-universe. It seemed to give Brienne a pause at least.