Kentucky Clerk refuses to issue same-sex marriage license

[DanteGabriel]

Her personal life isn't really relevant, and as far as we know it might not even be hypocritical. She could certainly believe theres nothing sinful about divorce but feel like same sex marriage is the ultimate evil.

Mostly I think its not even worth going there, peoples love and sex lives aren't anyone else's business and harping on that seems a low blow.

That said I hope she capitualtes and either does her job or resigns. Glad somethings being done to hopefully expedite that process.

 

Part of me feels a little bad for things like harping on the fact that she got knocked up by her third husband while married to her first husband, and makes me wonder what devolved convenient-conscience brand of McJesusism is okay with that, but really -- when people appoint themselves moral arbiters and qualified to make decisions about other people's personal lives, they kind of invite this judgment on themselves. Fuck her and her fucked up family.

 

After this, the Duggar scandalsplosion, and other prominent right wing Christianist scolds tripped over their own genitalia, it seems almost a truism that those that are the loudest and most obnoxious about their faith are the ones with the most scandalous secrets to cover up.

[SerHaHa]

Mostly I think its not even worth going there, peoples love and sex lives aren't anyone else's business and harping on that seems a low blow.

 

Interesting that you use this argument, since it's precisely what she is NOT doing herself in this case.  I completely agree, it isn't anyone else's business, and shouldn't be broadcast out there, including all the current LGBT out there in the media and Hollywood IMO.  Yet the reason she refuses to issue licenses is 100% her making the applicants sex lives HER business - and yet you criticize people pointing out HER sex life and past issues and saying that "we shouldn't go there", when she has completely "gone there" in terms of the gay couples trying to get a marriage license?   Doesn't compute.

 

I realize she is trying to explain herself regarding this particular issue, saying since her last (4th) marriage, she has found Jesus (you are HEALED!!!), and now all her past sins are forgiven, and like a juvenile record, forever expunged and irrelevant to her current behavior (snicker).  It must be nice to be able to constantly receive redemption, over and over, for your incorrect and illegal behavior by just claiming "I've been forgiven, praise god".  It's just a weak cop out.  I do completely respect those Christian people who truly, truly do practice what they preach, but in my experience, this is a pretty rare breed of cat.  I really feel that in this particular case, if she finds her work is incompatible with her faith, her duty both as a Christian and as an American is to resign, as she is making decisions that are bottom line NOT hers to make.

[sologdin]

Doesn't compute.

 

sure it does.  the thesis is mind your own business.  one can hardly advance that thesis and then disregard it by opening up her stuffs.

 

 

 

also wonder how I would view this if she was taking a stand for something I actually support.

 

 

 a useful experiment.  were a clerk to issue licenses contrary to state law last year, i'd've been all like fuck yeah fuck em up civil disobedience, mothafucka! whereas now i'm all what the fuck happened to the rule of law and democracy, mothafucka! /hankmoodyfalsetto

[brook]

Can we ban all hollywood and media types from talking about their "marriages" and "relationships" and "families"? Because it's really nobodies business and I'm so fucking sick of having heterosexuality shoved in my face like that.

[Dr. Pepper]

The response from religious conservatives has been almost frightening.   Mostly because these people seem to truly believe that Kim Davis was jailed for being a Christian rather than for refusing to do her job. 

 

 

 I completely agree, it isn't anyone else's business, and shouldn't be broadcast out there, including all the current LGBT out there in the media and Hollywood IMO. 

So what you're saying is that no one should ever speak of their spouse at all, should never discuss any sort of significant other, there shouldn't be any sort of romantic relationships portrayed on screen, people shouldn't hold the hand of their lover when outside their house, nothing at all?  Or is it just LGBT people and their relationships you want invisible? 

[karaddin]

Yeah, I've got to say the "acceptance" on display here is making me feel really equal

[sologdin]

Can we ban all hollywood and media types from talking about their "marriages" and "relationships" and "families"? Because it's really nobodies business and I'm so fucking sick of having heterosexuality shoved in my face like that.

i used to teach an article 15 years ago where this argument was very specifically made regarding grandparents showing off pictures of grandkids to any random person on a plane or in the mall or whatever.  keep your dirty heterosex to yourself, creepy old bastard!

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

 

Yes, I didn't actually check on the details of her position.

You would think that jail time would result in an automatic forfeiture of any public office -- we're pretty quick to forfeit voting rights for felons -- but Albany has shown that isn't the case.

 

So obviously I dislike narrow-minded fundies trying to hold the country hostage to their belief system.  But I also wonder how I would view this if she was taking a stand for something I actually support.  Everyone thinks they're the good guy.

 

Well, I for one have no problem saying that if the situation were different - say, if Kim Davis were refusing to issue warrants for runaway slaves pursuant to the Fugitive Slave Act, that I would feel very differently about her conduct. 

[OldGimletEye]

The response from religious conservatives has been almost frightening.   Mostly because these people seem to truly believe that Kim Davis was jailed for being a Christian rather than for refusing to do her job.

Yeah, but it's not really surprising. The thing is that for all their religious freedom talk, a good many of them really don't believe in the idea of a secular state that plays no favorites among religious faiths. Let's just say they believe some religions are more equal than others.

Just take for instance people like David Barton who has for years tried to undermine the idea of separation of church and state.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

OGE,

Yup. I've seen arguments in favor of banning "non-Christian" faiths from the mouths of the same people arguing that things like homosexual marriage are oppressing Christians.

That said I, and many of my friends, are Christian and fall on the right of the political spectrum I haven't seen anyone supporting Mrs. Davis.

[Shryke]

 

Part of me feels a little bad for things like harping on the fact that she got knocked up by her third husband while married to her first husband, and makes me wonder what devolved convenient-conscience brand of McJesusism is okay with that, but really -- when people appoint themselves moral arbiters and qualified to make decisions about other people's personal lives, they kind of invite this judgment on themselves. Fuck her and her fucked up family.

 

After this, the Duggar scandalsplosion, and other prominent right wing Christianist scolds tripped over their own genitalia, it seems almost a truism that those that are the loudest and most obnoxious about their faith are the ones with the most scandalous secrets to cover up.

 

Well, apparently Kim Davis converted to christianity AFTER her divorces (or only recently at the very least). So the charges of hypocrisy really don't make sense regardless.

 

It looks more like she'd had a rough go of it in some ways and turned to religion for support eventually and like alot of converts like that went balls deep on her new religion and so we get this crazy shit.

[sologdin]

scot--

 

law & order conservatives should be appalled by a clerk refusing to carry out a non-discretionary function.  it's like refusing to time-stamp pleadings or failure to disburse the court registry.

[Shryke]

 

Well, I for one have no problem saying that if the situation were different - say, if Kim Davis were refusing to issue warrants for runaway slaves pursuant to the Fugitive Slave Act, that I would feel very differently about her conduct. 

 

Ha, exactly what I was about to say.

 

I would certainly feel different were this a different situation.

[all swedes are racist]

 
 
I think jail in this case should really be the nuclear option.  I am generally uneasy about jailing someone for not doing their job, despite the fact that her reasons for not doing it are deplorable.

Well fret not. She's oonly opening herself up to impeachment for not doing her job. She's going to jail for contempt of court.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Why is it that this woman's "freedom of religion" can't be protected?

 

She has deeply held religious beliefs. Shouldn't she be allowed to do her job and not do something that she thinks is a sin?

 

And the fact that she is going to prison just for what she believes.... it almost reminds me of Roman times.

[IamMe90]

OGE,

Yup. I've seen arguments in favor of banning "non-Christian" faiths from the mouths of the same people arguing that things like homosexual marriage are oppressing Christians.

That said I, and many of my friends, are Christian and fall on the [b]left[/b] of the political spectrum I haven't seen anyone supporting Mrs. Davis.

 

FTFY

[TrueMetis]

Why is it that this woman's "freedom of religion" can't be protected?

 

She has deeply held religious beliefs. Shouldn't she be allowed to do her job and not do something that she thinks is a sin?

 

And the fact that she is going to prison just for what she believes.... it almost reminds me of Roman times.

 

No, because if she doesn't issue marriage licenses than she's not doing her damn job.

[IamMe90]

Why is it that this woman's "freedom of religion" can't be protected?

 

She has deeply held religious beliefs. Shouldn't she be allowed to do her job and not do something that she thinks is a sin?

 

And the fact that she is going to prison just for what she believes.... it almost reminds me of Roman times.

 

If you read through this extensive thread you'll find pages of arguments that will answer your question. Hard, I know.

[HexMachina]

Why is it that this woman's "freedom of religion" can't be protected?
 
She has deeply held religious beliefs. Shouldn't she be allowed to do her job and not do something that she thinks is a sin?
 
And the fact that she is going to prison just for what she believes.... it almost reminds me of Roman times.

Maybe she should find a job where her beliefs aren't going to interfere then. Because like it or lump it, her job includes issuing marriage licenses for same sex couples.

[Larry of the Lawn]

 
Interesting that you use this argument, since it's precisely what she is NOT doing herself in this case.  I completely agree, it isn't anyone else's business, and shouldn't be broadcast out there, including all the current LGBT out there in the media and Hollywood IMO.  Yet the reason she refuses to issue licenses is 100% her making the applicants sex lives HER business - and yet you criticize people pointing out HER sex life and past issues and saying that "we shouldn't go there", when she has completely "gone there" in terms of the gay couples trying to get a marriage license?   Doesn't compute.
 
I realize she is trying to explain herself regarding this particular issue, saying since her last (4th) marriage, she has found Jesus (you are HEALED!!!), and now all her past sins are forgiven, and like a juvenile record, forever expunged and irrelevant to her current behavior (snicker).  It must be nice to be able to constantly receive redemption, over and over, for your incorrect and illegal behavior by just claiming "I've been forgiven, praise god".  It's just a weak cop out.  I do completely respect those Christian people who truly, truly do practice what they preach, but in my experience, this is a pretty rare breed of cat.  I really feel that in this particular case, if she finds her work is incompatible with her faith, her duty both as a Christian and as an American is to resign, as she is making decisions that are bottom line NOT hers to make.

Look, I'm not defending her actions (or her failure to do her job). I'm glad this person is being held accountable for being really shitti at her job. I'm glad she's being held accountable for discriminating against same sex couples. I just don't see what's to be gained.by dragging her personal life into this. Don't see the value in it. At best its sinking to a lower level of criticism and at worst it turns to slut shaming.


Although I get what you and DG are saying and can see how my first post might come across as a tone complaint. But its not, I'm just sick of seeing peoples bedroom activity used as a criticism.