Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

[WSmith84]

These were the chapters where I really stopped caring about Dany as a character. Her arrogance is simply breathtaking. And MMD does something so horrific (if it was indeed intentional) that she's not too sympathetic either.

 

I'm fairly certain that MMD fully intended to heal Drogo initially. If she wanted to kill him, she could have just stayed silent (and let the Dothraki medicine do its work) or, if she needed to be involved, she could have treated his wound in the Dothraki fashion (which would have raised far less suspicion) and thus ensured his death. She could have poisoned the poultice she gave Drogo, but why not simply use the Dothraki mud-method and poison that.

 

It's probable that she performed the blood magic ritual knowing what it would do to Rhaego, but even that's not certain. Once again, people ignored her orders by bringing Dany into the tent. And the premature labour was probably induced by being knocked to the ground by Drogo's man. Maybe MMD simply took credit for the act, maybe she actually did it.

 

If MMD had killed Drogo and Dany (without killing Rhaego), I honestly couldn't say that I'd give a shit. Dany and Drogo destroyed her life and the lives of everyone that she knew and cared for. By killing Rhaego though, she becomes something despicable.

 

Edited for clarity regarding MMD killing Dany but not Rhaego.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Did you miss the part where Tyrion "confessed" murdering Joffrey to Jaime?

 

No. What about it?

 

I said I don't mind whether MMD was responsible or not.

 

We know Tyrion didn't do it, yet, he hurt Jaime. He did it with all intention to hurt him and Cersei.

[Taenqyrhae]

These were the chapters where I really stopped caring about Dany as a character. Her arrogance is simply breathtaking. And MMD does something so horrific (if it was indeed intentional) that she's not too sympathetic either.

 

I'm fairly certain that MMD fully intended to heal Drogo initially. If she wanted to kill him, she could have just stayed silent (and let the Dothraki medicine do its work) or, if she needed to be involved, she could have treated his wound in the Dothraki fashion (which would have raised far less suspicion) and thus ensured his death. She could have poisoned the poultice she gave Drogo, but why not simply use the Dothraki mud-method and poison that.

 

It's probable that she performed the blood magic ritual knowing what it would do to Rhaego, but even that's not certain. Once again, people ignored her orders by bringing Dany into the tent. And the premature labour was probably induced by being knocked to the ground by Drogo's man. Maybe MMD simply took credit for the act, maybe she actually did it.

 

If MMD had killed Drogo and Dany, I honestly couldn't say that I'd give a shit. Dany and Drogo destroyed her life and the lives of everyone that she knew and cared for. By killing Rhaego though, she becomes something despicable.

I don't get how killing a fetus is worse than killing an adult person.  So, if she killed pregnant Dany, and as a side-effect killed Rhaego, that would be forgivable, but killing Rhaego and leaving Dany alive is despicable?  Where's the logic in that?

[ConfusedCounselor]

By killing Rhaego though, she becomes something despicable

 

 

In a world in which prophecy is real, killing the child who would become the most prolific murderer and rapist ever is a bit more defensible in my mind. 

[Lady Sharya]

Did you miss the part where Tyrion "confessed" murdering Joffrey to Jaime?

Tyrion's false confession was made for the same reason Mirri's was; spite and knowing that denial would be futile.

[Nights Kings Queen]

I don't get how killing a fetus is worse than killing an adult person.  So, if she killed pregnant Dany, and as a side-effect killed Rhaego, that would be forgivable, but killing Rhaego and leaving Dany alive is despicable?  Where's the logic in that?

Rhaego wasn't a fetus at that point.
It wouldn't be forgivable if she killed Dany and Rhaego. And it certainly isn't forgivable that she killed a child when the mother didn't want the baby dead.

[Taenqyrhae]

 

In a world in which prophecy is real, killing the child who would become the most prolific murderer and rapist ever is a bit more defensible in my mind. 

We are living in a world where there's people who believe a 12 year old girl should be forced to give birth to her rapists child even if there's little chance that both will survive the process - and tell themselves that they are the morally superior folks.  To some people, abortion is never defensible under any circumstances.

[Tucu]

I believe that Mirri had a right to seek revenge (as justice was not an option). Also that leather tents are not really effective boundaries for magic rituals and that Mirri knew Rhaego would die and that Drogo would be a changed man. Finally, I believe that Dany decided not to ask detailed questions regarding the procedure and cost of the ritual.

[WSmith84]

I don't get how killing a fetus is worse than killing an adult person.  So, if she killed pregnant Dany, and as a side-effect killed Rhaego, that would be forgivable, but killing Rhaego and leaving Dany alive is despicable?  Where's the logic in that?

 

I meant that if killing Dany did not involve killing Rhaego, I wouldn't really have cared. Dany is partially responsible for the death/rape/enslavement of everybody MMD ever knew and/or cared for. If MMD had killed her, I'd call that revenge well-deserved. Killing something completely innocent of any crime is what makes MMD a monster.

 

Going to edit my previous post to make this point more clear.

[Mithras]

No. What about it?

 

I said I don't mind whether MMD was responsible or not.

 

We know Tyrion didn't do it, yet, he hurt Jaime. He did it with all intention to hurt him and Cersei.

 

And what makes you think that MMD didnot do it but gloated anyway to hurt Dany? In the absence of her POVs like Tyrion, how can you with certainty say that MMD did it because she owned it?

[Nights Kings Queen]

And what makes you think that MMD didnot do it but gloated anyway to hurt Dany? In the absence of her POVs like Tyrion, how can you with certainty say that MMD did it because she owned it?

Because it seems like she actually did do it.
And we were told of a betrayal for blood. Who else has betrayed daenerys for blood?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

And what makes you think that MMD didnot do it but gloated anyway to hurt Dany? In the absence of her POVs like Tyrion, how can you with certainty say that MMD did it because she owned it?

 

I said I don't mind she did it or not. She gloated on other person's disgrace.

 

That, for starters, doesn't even compare to what Tyrion did. Did he say "I'm glad you lose your hand so Cersei won't love you again and your life is ruined?". Did Cat say "I'm glad you never know your mother and I hope she's dead or at least, paralysed?". :dunno:

[Mithras]

Because it seems like she actually did do it.

 

Lol.

 

If we did not read any Tyrion POV, we would be convinced that he poisoned Joffrey. His case was much more desperate.

 

And we were told of a betrayal for blood. Who else has betrayed daenerys for blood?

 

Illyrio. He betrayed Dany for his blood (fAegon).

[Mithras]

I said I don't mind she did it or not. She gloated on other person's disgrace.

 

That, for starters, doesn't even compare to what Tyrion did. Did he say "I'm glad you lose your hand so Cersei won't love you again and your life is ruined?". Did Cat say "I'm glad you never know your mother and I hope she's dead or at least, paralysed?". :dunno:

 

ABSOLUTELY. Though as you will see, Tyrion's choice of words was much more jabbing.

 

“You poor stupid blind crippled fool. Must I spell every little thing out for you? Very well. Cersei is a lying whore, she’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know. And I am the monster they all say I am. Yes, I killed your vile son.” He made himself grin. It must have been a hideous sight to see, there in the torchlit gloom.

[Taenqyrhae]

Because it seems like she actually did do it.
And we were told of a betrayal for blood. Who else has betrayed daenerys for blood?

 

Because it seems like she actually did do it.
And we were told of a betrayal for blood. Who else has betrayed daenerys for blood?

If Mirri is responsible for that chain of events, maybe Bloodraven DID warg the boar that killed Robert, and the stag that killed the direwolf mother, and Jaime into pushing Bran out the window…it would mean that, in this series, people are not responsible at all for their own actions, if a handy witch is around to blame them on.

[Lady Sharya]

Because it seems like she actually did do it.
And we were told of a betrayal for blood. Who else has betrayed daenerys for blood?

Like sweetsunray@ pointed out, this could be a red herring, because Mirri didn't betray Dany. She explicitly told them NOT to enter the tent and Drogo's bloodriders were responsible for Rhaego's early birth.

Ignoring these facts presented in text just makes it seem like you want Mirri to be guilty...not that she is.

[Nights Kings Queen]

Lol.
 
1 If we did not read any Tyrion POV, we would be convinced that he poisoned Joffrey. His case was much more desperate.
 

 
2 Illyrio. He betrayed Dany for his blood (fAegon).

1) As JonCon's Red beard said, there's a massive difference between how Tyrion talked to Jaime, and how MMD talked to Dany.
2) Illyrio didn't betray her. The three betrayals the undying spoke of, are three major betrayals. It's why Jorah isn't on the list, even though he betrayed her.
Killing her husband and her son is a much bigger betrayal (a betrayal worthy to be on the list) than marrying her to Drogo (I'm assuming)

[Nights Kings Queen]

If Mirri is responsible for that chain of events, maybe Bloodraven DID warg the boar that killed Robert, and the stag that killed the direwolf mother, and Jaime into pushing Bran out the window…it would mean that, in this series, people are not responsible at all for their own actions, if a handy witch is around to blame them on.

So then what was the treason for blood? What treason is more suited to be the treason for blood than what MMD did?

Like sweetsunray@ pointed out, this could be a red herring, because Mirri didn't betray Dany. She explicitly told them NOT to enter the tent and Drogo's bloodriders were responsible for Rhaego's early birth.
Ignoring these facts presented in text just makes it seem like you want Mirri to be guilty...not that she is.

I wouldn't consider the undying' prophecy's red herrings.
I'm not ignoring the facts the text presents. And (no offense) saying the treasons Dany will know are Red herrings is ignoring the text.

[Lady Sharya]

If Mirri is responsible for that chain of events, maybe Bloodraven DID warg the boar that killed Robert, and the stag that killed the direwolf mother, and Jaime into pushing Bran out the window…it would mean that, in this series, people are not responsible at all for their own actions, if a handy witch is around to blame them on.

:lol: Truly. I think it's the black magic that some blinded to Mirri's innocence...that and being spiteful to Dany for her barbarians that just destroyed her village, slaughtered, raped, and carted off all those remaining to be sold as slaves. She didn't let her anger prevent her from providing quality medical treatment, but she couldn't hold her tongue in the end when she knew she was doomed anyway.

[Nights Kings Queen]

:lol: Truly. I think it's the black magic that some blinded to Mirri's innocence...that and being spiteful to Dany for her barbarians that just destroyed her village, slaughtered, raped, and carted off all those remaining to be sold as slaves. She didn't let her anger prevent her from providing quality medical treatment, but she couldn't hold her tongue in the end when she knew she was doomed anyway.

Why do you find it more conceivable that MMD was so angry at dany that she said a lot of hurtful and hateful things, yet did all she could to save Drogo and Rhaego?
That doesn't add up.