Visenya the Conquerer?

[Darkstream]

Rhaenys managed to get her dragon killed at Hellholt and herself either killed or captured. This led to Aegon putting contracts out on the Dornish lords and they, in turn, putting contracts out on him, which almost cost him his life a few years later. Then he received a letter from the Dornish Prince, which we can only presume had something to do with Rhaenys. The next day, he gave up the conquest of Dorne.
 
So as far as conquering goes, Rhaenys probably did more harm than good.

I'm not sure if I would call getting yourself killed as doing harm. Obviously it's not an advantage, but I don't think one could say the reason Dorne wasn't conquerer is because Rhaenys was killed, in fact I would argue that the other way around. Rhaenys was killed due to the difficulties in subduing Dorne. The fact that the three of them together never accomplished this, says something for Dorne.

I have to say, the contents of the letter Aegon read is one of the mysteries that really irks me the most. Im dying to know what it said. What do you think the chances Rhaenys survived her crash? I find it hard to believe that there wasn't some sort of reference to Rhaenys in that letter.

[Fire Eater]

Visenya took the Vale without bloodshed after a defeat at the hands of the Arryn fleet. She also came up with the KG, which warrants much credit. However, Aegon was more crucial as he his reign saw no rebellions thanks to his royal progresses that inspired both fear and awe, and he knew how to win loyalty wrt to the lords. The Conquest was his idea as well, and he was the commander-in-chief. Rhaenys was more essential in governing in terms given while Visenya was the warrior, Rhaenys was the politician. She sponsored singers who would sing songs of praises of the Targaryens which was good PR, she also won the love of the smallfolk and created marriages between the far-flung noble houses to tie the realm together and ensure it doesn't split into Seven Kingdoms again.

 

Also, Visenya instigated an intra-house conflict at the worst time: during a rebellion by one of the oldest and most powerful institutions in the 7K, the Faith. That action weakened her own house. 

Actually, we have no clue whose idea the Conquest in itself even was Aegon's idea. Could have been, could have been Visenya or Rhaenys' idea, or the siblings could have come up with the idea together. We do not know, since Gyldayn doesn't explain the story to us.

 

Visenya seems to have been about as or even more powerful and influential than Aegon himself. She founded the Kingsguard, and she ruled the Realm in Aegon's absence while he was on progress throughout the Realm with Aenys or spent his time on Dragonstone. Visenya also was the champion of House Targaryen and apparently a better warrior than her brother. And yes, Visenya may have saved the ass of the Targaryen dynasty when/if she murdered Aenys, but then she might have accomplished the same if she had just disobeyed Aenys and taken Vhagar to Oldtown on her own. Another alternative could have been to bring Maegor back and fight against the rebels in Aenys' name. He would have been grateful if they had restored him to his throne.

 

Rhaenys most likely was the crucial figure up until her death since she was more popular than Visenya and had more influence over Aegon. Not to mention that Meraxes was bigger than Vhagar.

I doubt the bolded given Aegon was known to be a skilled warrior in his day, and was no doubt the better swordsman. Everything else I agree with.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Favorite is Visenya.  I loved the way she handled the Arryns.  Aegon comes next.  I don't like Rhaenys at all.  I'm pretty sure she did something completely stupid to get Meraxes killed.  There's no reason to get within scorpion range when you have a dragon that big.  Aegon would not have made that mistake, as he demonstrated at Harrenhal.  Rhaenys took too much shit from the Yellow Toad.  Visenya would have taken the fight to the people and burned their castles and towns.  Dorne is poor and all she had to do was rain destruction, take control of the sources of water, and Dorne would be on its knees.  Poison the rivers  if necessary.  Rhaenys was too soft.

[OldGimletEye]

Favorite is Visenya.  I loved the way she handled the Arryns.  Aegon comes next.  I don't like Rhaenys at all.  I'm pretty sure she did something completely stupid to get Meraxes killed.  There's no reason to get within scorpion range when you have a dragon that big.  Aegon would not have made that mistake, as he demonstrated at Harrenhal.  Rhaenys took too much shit from the Yellow Toad.  Visenya would have taken the fight to the people and burned their castles and towns.  Dorne is poor and all she had to do was rain destruction, take control of the sources of water, and Dorne would be on its knees.  Poison the rivers  if necessary.  Rhaenys was too soft.

Uh, I'm under the impression, from the world book, that Aegon and Visneya did take part in the fight down in Dorne and did burn a lot of shit down. Maybe, the Dornish just simply whipped the Targaryen's ass.

[Bellatrix Stark]

They needed each other. If one of them hadn't been a part of the conquering, it wouldn't have happened the way it did. Three dragons are better than two (or one), literally and figuratively. 

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

^ Agree. They were truly a triumvirate.

[Darkstream]

Why? they are sisters. They would not kill each other no matter if there is Aegon around.
If they were not sisters, visenya and Rhaenys would surely fight each other for Aegon and visenya may win.

  

My money is on Visenya, I don't think Rhaenys has a chance in that fight.

Actually Aegon should have married a Dornish princess to bring Dorne into his realm. 
Then he does not need to lose Rhaenys.

Aegon was already married to his sisters before the start of the conquest. Aegon was offered Argilac's daughter and refused because he already had two wives. I think he also had other offers that he refused. It seems that he wasn't really into the idea of polygamy, and only took two wives because of his great desire and love for Rhaenys. It's clear he only married Visenya out of duty.

  

[Lady Blizzardborn]

 

Why? they are sisters. They would not kill each other no matter if there is Aegon around.

 

If they were not sisters, visenya and Rhaenys would surely fight each other for Aegon and visenya may win. 

And Cain and Abel were brothers.

 

Do you have any sisters?  Sisters of vastly differing temperaments who have different approaches to ruling and have dragons...someone is ending up dead in that scenario.

 

Fighting for a man is not done with armor and weapons.  In that battle, with only the family relationship changed, Rhaenys would win.  We already know Aegon preferred her.  He married Visenya because he was forced to, he married Rhaenys because he wanted to.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Well, without Aegon Visenya most likely would have married Rhaenys off to somebody else, and there wouldn't have been any quarrel.

That wouldn't be Viseyna's call.  It would be their father's decision.

 

 

I think Visenya and Rhaenys loved each other. Visenya built the Sept of Remembrance in honour of her sister, and took grim revenge for her death.

I love my sisters.  Doesn't mean they haven't made me so angry I couldn't see straight.  If we'd had dragons in our youth, things would have gone badly, and I probably would have gotten the worst of it. :D

 

As mature adults yes they probably would have been fine (as my sisters and I are).  I'm just not entirely sure they would have both lived to attain the "mature" part without someone keeping them in check.

[SeanF]

That wouldn't be Viseyna's call.  It would be their father's decision.
 
I love my sisters.  Doesn't mean they haven't made me so angry I couldn't see straight.  If we'd had dragons in our youth, things would have gone badly, and I probably would have gotten the worst of it. :D
 
As mature adults yes they probably would have been fine (as my sisters and I are).  I'm just not entirely sure they would have both lived to attain the "mature" part without someone keeping them in check.

If Rhaenys had lived, it's possible they would have fallen out over the succession.

[Darkstream]

Visenya took the Vale without bloodshed after a defeat at the hands of the Arryn fleet. She also came up with the KG, which warrants much credit. However, Aegon was more crucial as he his reign saw no rebellions. Rhanyes was more essential in governing in terms given while Visenya was the warrior, Rhaenys was the politician. She sponsored singers who would sing songs of praises of the Targaryens which was good PR, she also won the love of the smallfolk and created marriages between the far-flung noble houses to tie the realm together and ensure it doesn't split into Seven Kingdoms again.

You've stated that Aegon was more crucial, as he saw no rebellions, but seemed to only showed support for Visenya and Rhaenys. What do you think his role in preventing rebellion was?

[Shmi44]

what a question lol?

Aegon obviously. 

[Fire Eater]

You've stated that Aegon was more crucial, as he saw no rebellions, but seemed to only showed support for Visenya and Rhaenys. What do you think his role in preventing rebellion was?

Check above to edited version.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

IDK if Aegon would have been able to do it on his own/with only one sister, the advantage that he had with three dragons is that the Vale, Stormlands and Riverlands were subdued simultaneously, which then allowed him to focus all of his forces on the Reach and West.

 

It's hard to say whether he would have achieved the same thing on the Field of Fire with only Balerion, but theoretically the main thing that happened was Mern and his kinsmen burning to death, as long as Aegon focuses on Mern's position the outcome should be the same.

 

A possible difference is that the northmen might have decided to chance a battle if Aegon only had Balerion, and if Torrhen gave the go ahaead and Brandon Snow somehow managed to kill Balerion then Aegon may have lost and the Targaryen dynasty would have ended.

[Lord Varys]

Fire Eater,

 

my guess about Visenya being the better warrior is best on her apparent quickness during her demonstration to Aegon. Clearly she could have killed him then and there, even if he had Blackfyre with him, not to mention that she also once saved him during an attack. That is no proof that she was the better swordsman, but a good indication that she may have been. Nobody says Aegon was a bad warrior but Visenya could have been a little better, especially were quickness was concerned. After the Conquest Aegon wouldn't have had much time to continue his training in the yard. I'm not saying he grew fat and lazy but I guess he was at his peak in his youth whereas Visenya's personality suggests she remained in very good physical shape until the very end of her life.

 

LB,

 

that would depend when exactly Lord Aerion died. If Rhaenys was still unmarried at that point in our scenario, then it would presumably be Visenya's call as she would be Lady of Dragonstone in Aegon's place if he had died as a child or ever existed in the first place.

[Kaibaman]

I personally think Aegon was one of those larger than life statesman like William the Conqueror who could have conquered and consolidated power on his own. Unlike William he was lucky he had his two sisters by his side who were on their own very extraordinary people and they were able to bring to the table the kinds of skills and attitudes that Aegon lacked. Granted Aegon may not have needed them and still conquered Westeros and founded the Targaryen dynasty on his own. But I suspect without them his conquest would have taken a lot longer and proved to be a lot harder. He may have even lost his life before things could have really taken shape.

 

I for one think Visenya was a very fundamental cornerstone to the success of Aegon’s Conquest. It was after all her idea to form the Kingsguard after the Dornish tried to take them out. She also put in place other security measures and was able to effectively hold the reins of government while Aegon was off touring the country and visiting the various fiefs of his kingdom like Charlemagne did. So yeah I think Visenya was a very vital part of the Targaryen’s success. Aegon may not have needed her and for all we know if Aegon never existed, she may not have needed him either. But the fact that she and even Rheanys were around was a bonus for Aegon.

[Lord Varys]

Well, there are hints that Aegon was sterile so there wouldn't have been a Targaryen dynasty without Visenya and especially Rhaenys. All Targaryens are descended from her through her son Aenys.

[Darkstream]

Favorite is Visenya.  I loved the way she handled the Arryns.  Aegon comes next.  I don't like Rhaenys at all.  I'm pretty sure she did something completely stupid to get Meraxes killed.  There's no reason to get within scorpion range when you have a dragon that big. Aegon would not have made that mistake, as he demonstrated at Harrenhal. 

I would say that's a unfair assumption considering the little information we have. I mean, that one sentence in your response pretty much sums up everything we know about how she died.

Rhaenys took too much shit from the Yellow Toad.

You don't dare underestimate the Yellow Toad? ;)

I did find it curious that Rhaenys and the Targ armies just left after basically being told off by Meria. I'm pretty sure Visenya would have had a more aggressive reaction towards the Yellow Toad.

Visenya would have taken the fight to the people and burned their castles and towns.  Dorne is poor and all she had to do was rain destruction, take control of the sources of water, and Dorne would be on its knees.  Poison the rivers  if necessary.  Rhaenys was too soft.

It didn't seem like the Dornish left very much in way of targets for Rhaenys to rain destruction down on. With the guerrilla warfare tactics the Dornish used, I'm not convinced Visenya would have fared any better.

As far as poisoning the wells and rivers, I would imagine that's the type of decision that Aegon would want to have say in. Granted, the Targs were no saints, as castles and fields of charred soldiers would attest to, but I don't feel like Aegon and his sister's were prepared to kill thousands of innocent civilians.

[Darkstream]

what a question lol?
Aegon obviously.

I certainly cannot argue such sound logic. :rolleyes:

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Rhaenys was the one trying to arrange marriages between regions to help unify the realm though, iirc.

 

And that wasn't necessarily a good thing. This stranger comes in and starts trying to meddle in your family affairs? Trying to marry First Men Starks to the most Andal house in Westeros?  Sure, great way to not breed resentment.