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INCBlackbird

opinions on the sand snakes

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I remember when I was still reading the books (it took me so long to get through them) I heard about the sand snakes here and there and was actually realy excited about meeting them but when I got to a feast for crows I was really dissapointed even now I barely know their separate names because they just feel like a hivemind of "I want revenge" to me. I feel like they're one dimensional characters but then again I haven't really spend a lot of time trying to change that so I was wondering if there's people out there who really love the sand snakes and can give their opinions on why and change my mind about them?

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I remember when I was still reading the books (it took me so long to get through them) I heard about the sand snakes here and there and was actually realy excited about meeting them but when I got to a feast for crows I was really dissapointed even now I barely know their separate names because they just feel like a hivemind of "I want revenge" to me. I feel like they're one dimensional characters but then again I haven't really spend a lot of time trying to change that so I was wondering if there's people out there who really love the sand snakes and can give their opinions on why and change my mind about them?


You're obviously not counting Sarella/Alleras who stands apart from her elder three sisters. She is one of my favorites, then again I think the last chapter of AFfC is masterful. I also thought the intro of Tyene & the conversation that ensued between her & Doran was compelling.

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I remember when I was still reading the books (it took me so long to get through them) I heard about the sand snakes here and there and was actually realy excited about meeting them but when I got to a feast for crows I was really dissapointed even now I barely know their separate names because they just feel like a hivemind of "I want revenge" to me. I feel like they're one dimensional characters but then again I haven't really spend a lot of time trying to change that so I was wondering if there's people out there who really love the sand snakes and can give their opinions on why and change my mind about them?

I love the Dornish storyline, its one of my favourites, but I agree with you on the sand snakes. I don't really feel like they have much depth, they all want revenge but just that they have different means of achieving it. The only thing that seems different about them to me is that they specialise in different things e.g. Obara is a warrior (apparently), Nym, an assassin?, Tyene a poisoner...so what? I admit, they haven't really appeared much in the books, so hopefully they'll improve since they all seem set to get quite big roles in the next book. That's all I can say, we'll have to wait and see. Glad someone else finds them one dimensional  :)

Sarella seems interesting though and Tyene is certainly the best of the oldest three. 

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The problem about sand snakes was that, IMHO, they were too many!
Eight! So it is quite confusing and hard to separate and remember.
I can never remember all of their names. Especially last three.
I think HBO show did a right thing to get only three.

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The problem about sand snakes was that, IMHO, they were too many!
Eight! So it is quite confusing and hard to separate and remember.
I can never remember all of their names. Especially last three.
I think HBO show did a right thing to get only three.


But only four mattered in the last two books, Elia Sand will make it five in Winds. The three youngest may play no active role..

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The problem about sand snakes was that, IMHO, they were too many!
Eight! So it is quite confusing and hard to separate and remember.
I can never remember all of their names. Especially last three.
I think HBO show did a right thing to get only three.

Totally agree, what was the point in having eight? 

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But only four mattered in the last two books, Elia Sand will make it five in Winds. The three youngest may play no active role..


Even five were kind of too much. I mean they already have very limited plots in the story so each of them is just too thin to be remembered or distinguished when you split them to five people.
One can simply combine with another one.
I feel like three is a good number.

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Even five were kind of too much. I mean they already have very limited plots in the story so each of them is just too thin to be remembered or distinguished when you split them to five people.
One can simply combine with another one.
I feel like three is a good number.

 

:agree: I think GRRM should have just had Obara, Tyene and Sarella. I don't feel like Nym has much personality at all (although that could change) and the younger ones feel like basic non-entities to me. 

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so far the Sand Snakes have been a total waste of time and pages.

also, I hate it that Oberyn conveniently has only daughters, GRRM is better than this.

 

Elia Sand was fun in the Arianne sample chapter, though

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George his worst creation, IMHO. Which lead to HBO's worst creation. 

 

I always thought Oberyn was a bit overdone, and the sand snakes are worse still. They feel like they belong in a mediocre cartoon or comic book.

The only one I remotely care about is Sarella/Alleras.  

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:agree: I think GRRM should have just had Obara, Tyene and Sarella. I don't feel like Nym has much personality at all (although that could change) and the younger ones feel like basic non-entities to me. 


Disagree, there may actually be a reason, beyond that Oberyn is a world class poon hound 😂😂

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Disagree, there may actually be a reason, beyond that Oberyn is a world class poon hound

I don't like Obara at all, but I feel she has more of a personality than Nym. I feel that, since both of Nym and Tyene are going to be going to kings landing, the two characters could have been combined, but since we don't have WoW yet, I'm probably wrong and they'll all end up being in some way important to the plot line  ;)

 

 

 

also, I hate it that Oberyn conveniently has only daughters, GRRM is better than this.

 

:agree: I find this a slight stretch of reality, I know it's fiction but even so... Then again, I did wonder about this, and maybe it's done deliberately to be weird? Like, maybe Oberyn has sons somewhere but just doesn't acknowledge them  :dunno:

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I think Obara and nym can simply become one character.
Then we have Tyene and sarella.
Three are good.
Even elia sand can combine with nym.
She can deal with darkstar then join ariaane to check aegon then go to KL to do whatever she needs to do there. Then we have a much better developed figure here who can make aegon fall in love and do stupid stuff.

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They could have done the Dornish plot with one adult Sand Snake as long as they had Arianne... whoops.

 

The youngest ones (Loreza, Dorea, Obella, I think) are just off-screen innocent children who love their sisters. Elia Sand is in Winds and I guess I should stop there.

Sarella is the big odd one out, having absconded to Oldtown to study at the Citadel. She's dedicated to her education (disguises her gender and class), really smart (three links in one year!), good with a bow, has some philosophy about how perfection implies stagnation, and hangs out with Maester Marwyn.

Obara is the oldest, and has Serious Issues involving not expressing grief except through violence (thanks Oberyn!) (see the "tears are a woman's weapon" story) and probably that same backstory leads to her proposing sacking Oldtown because her father died, the most immediately destructive of the vengeance plans. Openly violent, carrying spear&whip. Hatred of Oldtown probably compensating for being a prostitute's daughter. Fond of wine.

Tyene is the Arianne's friend, who looks creepily innocent and calm while sewing and proposing treasons liable to end in the death of children. Her revenger plan is the most long-term and indirect. She has a reputation for poison and is going to try to 'get close to' the new high sparrow.

Nymeria, Lady Nym, um... rides horses gracefully? Dresses revealingly. Proposes assassinating Lannisters, sort of in between Obara and Tyene's plans. She has knives, but hides them. Has sex with the Fowler twins. (they're girls) She's going to King's Landing to sit on the Small Council. (Great plan)

 

 

They're not very complex characters, but they're also not that important. They're colourful, they're foils for the important people, Arianne and Doran, they provide a voice for the general discontent of Dorne--but don't sweat if they're a bit vague, any more than the difference between Jory and Rodrik or Pip and Gren.

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I really do not understand how nym would sit in the small council in the replacement of red viper.
She is a young bastard daughter, right? I am not saying woman should not sit there, but it is really rare to have a bastard young woman in the council of IT to represent Dorne.
Quentin should be good option but he went to essos.
Maybe an important bannerman lord or even a young trystane. But nym? Why?

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I really do not understand how nym would sit in the small council in the replacement of red viper.
She is a young bastard daughter, right? I am not saying woman should not sit there, but it is really rare to have a bastard young woman in the council of IT to represent Dorne.
Quentin should be good option but he went to essos.
Maybe an important bannerman lord or even a young trystane. But nym? Why?

Maybe Doran has an alternative mission for her when she is in kings landing? But then again, why not just send Tyene on her own... 

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George his worst creation, IMHO. Which lead to HBO's worst creation. 

 

I always thought Oberyn was a bit overdone, and the sand snakes are worse still. They feel like they belong in a mediocre cartoon or comic book.

The only one I remotely care about is Sarella/Alleras.  

 

I concur - they are very contrived. They are like the Westerosi version of Fox Force Five - this one is an expert poisoner, this one is a sexy seductress, this one is the butchy burly woman warrior... 

 

The only interesting one is Sarella. 

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I really do not understand how nym would sit in the small council in the replacement of red viper.
She is a young bastard daughter, right? I am not saying woman should not sit there, but it is really rare to have a bastard young woman in the council of IT to represent Dorne.
Quentin should be good option but he went to essos.
Maybe an important bannerman lord or even a young trystane. But nym? Why?

 

 This also is weird - she's a bastard daughter - not technically even a lady and she's young and likes to wear see through negligees to court. What possible impact would she have on the Small Council? Have we ever seen a woman on the Small Council? 

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I really do not understand how nym would sit in the small council in the replacement of red viper.
She is a young bastard daughter, right? I am not saying woman should not sit there, but it is really rare to have a bastard young woman in the council of IT to represent Dorne.
Quentin should be good option but he went to essos.
Maybe an important bannerman lord or even a young trystane. But nym? Why?

 

She's not the first bastard to sit on the small council in recent times, Aurane Waters was Master of Ships before he stole the ships and set up shop as a pirate. Nymeria is twenty five if I remember correctly, and slightly older than Aurane.

 

Personally I think Doran sending her is not a bad idea, it allows people underestimate her. Him sending Tyrene to join the Sparrows is actually pretty masterful too.

 

So if all goes to plan, Doran has eyes and ears in both the court and the Sparrows, which can manipulate those factions in the interests of Dorne. For example, I think that they will end up aiding Cersei by helping to win her Trial by Combat and somehow throw a wrench into Margaery's Trial by Faith, further destabilizing the Lannister/Tyrell alliance.

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She's not the first bastard to sit on the small council in recent times, Aurane Waters was Master of Ships before he stole the ships and set up shop as a pirate. Nymeria is twenty five if I remember correctly, and slightly older than Aurane.
 
Personally I think Doran sending her is not a bad idea, it allows people underestimate her. Him sending Tyrene to join the Sparrows is actually pretty masterful too.
 
So if all goes to plan, Doran has eyes and ears in both the court and the Sparrows, which can manipulate those factions in the interests of Dorne. For example, I think that they will end up aiding Cersei by helping to win her Trial by Combat and somehow throw a wrench into Margaery's Trial by Faith, further destabilizing the Lannister/Tyrell alliance.


Maybe Tyene would poison myrcella like alyyria in the show.
Then put the blame to somebody else.

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